I see you're still butthurt over my response to you yesterday. Takes a weak person to get their feelings so hurt over the internet, pretty sad.

Anyway, I am just assuming that the "German quality of engineering" moto would hold true on a car built in Germany. Who knows, maybe it will suck like the C450's build quality? If I had to speculate one way or another, I'd specualte that it may turn out favorably for the Coupe. There's a good chance I'll be completely wrong.

What IS a very safe assumption is that by-and-large the same car, built in the exact same place, will be assembled equally as ****ty as it was previously...or do you have some insight that suggests otherwise? Did your "well informed dealer contact" that was wrong on everything else previously regarding the exhaust, etc. give you another genius tip off?

 

I never made any comments about having a dealer contact giving me information regarding anything. Not sure you have things straight in your head.

Either way. I have read plenty over in the c63 side about rattles, etc. I would expect it to vary from vehicle to vehicle with only a margin of difference in general between the two plants, if any.

It's more up to luck of the draw, IMO.

They will probably put more HP, spend twice as long as on the line and even make the exhaust louder just for you though.

 

Just cause it's assembled in Germany doesn't make the build any better than it being assembled i the US. By and large, all the parts are built to spec at one central location in Germany.

 

Delusions of grandeur, man.

He has been spitting this crap all over the forums. Whatever makes him feel better about waiting, spending more, or whatever other justification.

 

I was presuming otherwise, but I've never owned a car assembled in Germany so I wasn't sure...and I was assuming the lazy American's in Alabama were cutting corners, causing issues.

Chances are if the top dog C63 is assembled like **** in Germany, the C43 will be as well.

 

The most recent JD Power initial quality ratings show MB above the industry average for reported problems. No data on assembly location, but not good no matter where assembled.

 

im not one to speculate, but, my dad's 14 E350 built in germany = tight as a drum. My C300 and my moms ML350 built in USA = def quality issues.

not sure if coincidence or..

 

The Vance plant's C-class production line is relatively new. Our April 2016 build is very tight but that is only one data point.

Commissioning a new production line always comes with gremlins and unintended consequences. I've been through many of these and I've never seen a new line immediately take off and match an established line with respect to OEE and total quality right out of the gate. It usually takes a few months to get everything tuned in correctly.

It's amusing to read some of the myths people believe about modern manufacturing. There are only 2 main differences between a US plant and a German one. The supply chain logistics are different: trucking, rail/intermodal, and international oceanfreight. German labor costs are typically higher than labor costs in the Southern US. This is driven by much lower cost of living in the American South.

If you believe that there is something intrinsic to German manufacturing that makes it superior to American manufacturing, you are wrong. In most industries they are so closely matched as to be indistinguishable. World class manufacturing is world class, end of story.

 

In my opinion it comes down to work ethic and culturally Germany values work ethic on a different level. Like Japan does. If I have 2 items in front of me that look the same and one is made in Japan and one is made in China, I'll take the one made in Japan even if it costs a little more. Maybe I'm wrong though!

 

You have a very unusual view of America. Anything stamped with "Made in the USA" goes for a premium. In no way can the above be synonymous with Japan vs China.

 

So maybe I should get the coupe instead of the sedan so i don't run into the same problems I had with my c450? Why does Mercedes even bother to manufacture the sedan here if you guys say the quality is worse here than the German plant? Doesn't that ruin their reputation?

 

Not sure about reputation. Kia has almost 30% fewer reported initial defects than MB. Quality in my current MBs is excellent.

 

The difference has nothing to due with cultural norms and everything to do with process controls. Almost all Japanese manufacturing facilities are world class and operate at the highest levels of efficiency and lowest rates of defect. Chinese plants are all over the place. Some are outstanding and some are abysmal. Finding good contract manufacturing in China is challenging to the point that sourcing this capability is it's own industry.

 

My MB's have been solid, but I have seen everything from intermittent electrical problems in C63S Edition 1's to S63's with sheared sunroof fasteners that cause crazy rattle problems, all on vehicles right off of the line.

Basically, none of these lines are immune to these types of problems. If I had a rattle or excessive wind noise or whatever, I would take it in.

 

Without going into an all-out attack on those union protected, crappy car producing, UAW workers up in the midwest, it's about rules and exceptions. So, all of we 450 owners definitely sympathize with you, as any of us could run into one of those exceptions from the Alabama plant.

But based on well-documented vehicle tracking, the rule is.......in right-to-work states (read: in the South) like S. Carolina (BMW), Tennessee (Nissan/Infiniti), and Alabama (MB), the cars produced by those non-UAW are unquestionably much better than those mde in Michigan, Ohio, etc. What, you think those foreign companies chose those states for shipps & giggles? They're trying to 1) make money and 2) keep & attract more customers to keep making money.

The exception, of course, is that a small percentage will be off a bit.

Flip-flop that for a, let's say, Dodge put together by Fiat-Chrysler UAW lackeys that are having Booze & Blunt parties in the local park @ lunch. And finishing off somebody's damn Charger that afternoon. What the.....! (calm down)

Hell, even our modern day C7 Vette's - rightly praised as the best ever - are still giving people all sorts of stupid, idiotic problems we all expect after we buy a $50,000 car. Go check a long term test or 2 and peruse some C7 forums. Cheap plastic bits falling off @ 8,000 miles? No problem.

That wouldn't be happening as a rule if made by non-union workers on American soil with GERMAN quality control standards applied to the work by Quality Assurance supervisors and management big shots. The type of oversight that is clearly not happening up North.

No, not all German-made cars are bulletproof with impeccable build quality/fit & finish. But I'll be damned if they are just automatically in the same category as our - face it people - generally substandard vehicles from Ford, Chevy, or FCA. All sorts of "initial quality" awards.......then before you even hit 10K miles, you're like, Aw hell no!!. Repeatedly.

Now that wasn't so bad was it? It was? Uh-oh......the UAW worshippers and the dwindling, tax-payer-ripping- off membership are coming to get me.

 

 

We get it, you don't like the UAW. I don't have much love for them either.
But please stop pretending that you're an expert on modern high speed manufacturing. You clearly are not. It's insulting to those of us that do this for a living.

Guess what? America still makes stuff. And and our quality and efficiency happen to be just as good or better when compared with the rest of the world. American manufacturing is inferior to none.

Try touring some plants in other countries. It won't matter if it's food, durables, electronics, or precision machining, you will consistently see the highest standards maintained in the American plants. Most Western European, Korean, and Japanese plants will display the same world class standards as their American counterparts. Chinese and Taiwanese plants will range from worst of the worst to best of the best and everything in between. SE Asia is the same, with some very good plants and some very poor ones. Mexico is similar to China, some manufacturing plants are world class some are a hot mess.

On observation, a pattern will quickly emerge. The US, Canada, Western Europe, Korea, and Japan will overwhelmingly display world class manufacturing standards across all their major industries. The level of quality and efficiency of manufacturing operations in these nations will be very similar to each other. The major differences in cost of goods sold from locations in these nations will be primarily driven by supply chain logistics and labor costs, not by quality or efficiency.

 

Wrong! I'm a hell of alot younger and knowledgeable than you and Mr. C300 know and who gives a damn about the UAW specifically.

It's about crappy bleeping workmanship by anyone, anywhere. Get it right, Mr. Hurt Feelings. In fact, who annointed you as brilliant? You don't appear all that bright, for the record.

Best of all, I'm glad you're insulted. And who the hell said anything about other American products. See? You are EXACTLY the type American worker @ the UAW. Steady defending the lousy product instead of upping your Inferior American Manufactured Car game.

Better still......you say I clearly am not an expert? Says the man driving a German car, and another one in a C300 lacking the skill to comment intelligently (kinda like you), but opts to post a cartoon pic about someone he knows nothing of? He can't even issue a proper insult. Tsk, tsk.

Second best of all, you both just made my point.

Neither of you trust American car makers enough to pay them your cash, but wanna talk smack? Please. Put your money where your big mouths are and purchase a damn Ford, GM, or FCA car. Go ahead......do it! Then you'll have the authority to take shots a me.

Buy American! Buy American! Buy American! So sick of that crap.

Buy quality from - again, genius - anyone, anywhere, period.

You can't educate me on jack pooh.....defending those UAW so-and-so's. Now go back to manufacturing your bogus whatever you do for living. Just don't try to pimp that garbage to me.

 

And have a nice day, Mr. J. How rude I am.

 

If you don't mind me asking how old are you? I'm not trying to be as ***, just genuinely curious.

 

My other car is a Ford and my MB was built in Vance Alabama. Previous to the current Ford, I owned an F150 for 5 years that I absolutely loved. I have also driven pickups from all of the Big 3 US automakers and Toyota during wildland firefighting operations throughout the West. In that role we beat the hell out of those trucks and I learned quite a bit about reliability and maintenance of light and heavy duty pickups.

Other brands I've owned or driven extensively include:
Honda, Dodge, various GM brands, Toyota, Mazda, Volvo, VW, Nissan/Datsun, Chevy

For the record, Chrysler/Dodge is on the bottom of my list and I have no intentions of purchasing anything from them in the future.
I've owned 2 Toyotas and driven many more. Build quality has slipped quite a bit over the years and their product lineup is underwhelming. I doubt they will earn me back as a customer.
I've owned 2 Fords and driven quite a few more. Ford is clearly the most innovative among the big 3. They are doing some interesting stuff with adaptive steering and they helped drive the market towards direct injection gas engines.
Honda is boringly reliable, nuff said.
I'm not a fan of GM as either a value proposition or a reliability one.

The variations are company-specific not nation-specific.


And you, OTOH, are an ignorant asshat that knows absolutely nothing about manufacturing as evident by your remarks.

Supply chains are global and world class manufacturing facilities = world class manufacturing facilities regardless of location. That was my point. Reading is fundamental...


Stick to what you know. And don't conflate my comments with others. It makes you seem even more confused.

 

Perhaps a moderator could clear this thread up a bit?

 

Oooooo heated discussion.

I can't say I have driven enough US/German made cars under the same brand to say anything conclusive. Though I did rented a GLC a few months back and noticed that the shoulder line on the front and back door doesn't really align.

When ordering the C43 (sedan) I told my SA that I would be quite happier if it was produced in Germany because of the door thing. Turned out GLCs were made in Germany so I was pretty surprised. I did drive an Germany A5 in the past and it rattled like crazy and my gearbox was ****. Friend's A7 has the start-stop system toasted too.

I think for me it's more of a its-a-German-brand thing so I would prefer for it to be made in Germany? Not like I have a choice though so whatever. I hope that I get one with no issues so fingers crossed.

On a separate note. Did any one of you who ordered the C43 lately heard of some bottleneck/delay with the open pore ash wood option? My SA told me that option is now temporarily on halt.

 

I created and was the admin for the first national lemon law website, www.lemonlamerica.com. That's not especially relevant other than for each state where we had a participating attorney I had to build the case submission form, the purpose of which was to screen submissions so that only legitimate cases got through. Cases that didn't qualify got directed to a "sorry" page.

I can tell you that if you are the original owner, and you've had either 3 unsuccessful repair attempts for a single issue, or a total of 30 shop days for any combination of issues, the law is triggered.

The law requires that if you prevail, your attorney's fees must be paid by the manufacturer. As a result, lemon law attorneys charge nothing if they don't prevail, so you will not owe attorney fees even if you lose.

Some states make it easier than others, but to get started I'd suggest Googling [YOUR STATE] Lemon Law, and submit the case for a free review to a lawyer in your state.

 

My coupe is delayed because of that . They ran out of that part. I told my SA I'd wait because the other options I don't want (not paying for that carbon silver or carbon look and the brown wood and base gloss plastic are meh)

He said it wasn't going to be a long delay. My car went from late August to early Sept production