Victor.km.lam

Hi Klaus,

Thanks for the suggestion. Checked...the soft top controller p/n 1298203126(08) is tidy and clean (no sign of any rodents).

Victor

Victor.km.lam

Hi Klaus,

Thanks for the suggestion. Checked...the soft top controller p/n 1298203126(08) is tidy and clean (no sign of rodents). But I've found a lose wire with a kind of auto switch p/n 0165459828 is hanging freely without attaching to anywhere. What's this switch does and is that suppose to attach to somewhere?

The window auto drop issue is still outstanding...

Victor

Victor.km.lam

Hi Klaus,

I've attached some pictures re soft top controller and the lose wire/switch that I mentioned in my previous message. Hope its help you to diagnose the issue.

Victor

cl600bill

I have a similar problem after a dead battery. Windows would not operate and roll bar and convertible top switch came on. Drove it like that for a few days and lights went out and windows worked but drivers window would roll down halfway on next start. I synchronized windows by rolling down and up holding switch for 10 seconds. When I open door, window does not immediately lower the half inch right away --- delays about --- 3 to 5 seconds. Also, roll bar nd top switch comes on when starting for about 5 seconds. With having been said, my question is --- Does something have to be reset with a star tool or is controller failing. Afraid to put top down in case it fails halfway down or will not go back up wheen needed. Any ideas?

Top Hydraulics

cl600bill, I haven't heard of such a delay before. Sounds clearly controller related. Hope that clearing codes with STAR will take care of it.

If your top fails to move at some point, then you can still move it manually. The tricky part about manual operation on a model year '95+ is manually locking the rear locks. The good news: you can drive safely without the rear locks latched (as long as the front locks are latched) and lock them manually at home. To latch the rear locks manually, you remove part of the trim in the trunk, manually pull the release lever on the rear lock, and at the same time push down hard on the rear lock from the outside.

Klaus

Top Hydraulics

Victor,

I don't know the purpose of that switch. When I traced the same wire in my car a moment ago, it seemed to be going into the rear of the center console area, and I didn't have time to investigate further.

Folks, does anyone know what this switch does?

Klaus

cl600bill

Klaus, thanks, I'll take it in to clear the codes. And thanks for the tip on moving the top manually. I did not know it was possible and I hope I never have to do it.

Victor.km.lam

Hi Klaus,

Thanks again for your time to investigate my issue. Where is the "rear of the center console area" that you mentioned? However, is there any other suggestion that I can do to identify the root cause of this window auto drop issue that I have?

Btw, I understand your company (Top Hydraulics) offers cylinder rebuild services. I believe I've a leaking cylinder from back left side of my car, between the door and rear wheel. I'd like to know more about the services offering for oversea customer (Sydney, Australia). Can you tell me more about the services or direct me to the appropriated person for this matter? Are you the owner of the company?

Thanks,
Victor

Top Hydraulics

The center console is the part with the storage compartment under the sliding arm rest. The rear of the console touches the rear storage compartments, and that's where the wire in question is routed in my '97.
You could try wiggling the wiring harness going to the controller to check for a bad connection or faulty wire while the top is moving. In particular, check the 10A fuse in the trunk, which powers the controller. The controller can store the window position in its memory for about an hour (+/- factor of 4), so you want to see instead if the top operation gets interrupted.

Thanks for asking. We ship to Australia almost on a daily basis at this time of year. Most Australians take advantage of our "up-front shipping" aka core exchange, where we ship cylinders from our stock first.

If you are seeing a leak on the left side between the door and the rear wheel on a model year '97, then you have either the main lift cylinder 1298000272 or the left bow extension cylinder 1298001772 failing. When a bow extension cylinder fails, it will drip on top of the main lift cylinder. I will attach a location diagram for all cylinders to this post. Model years '90-'96 have twelve cylinders for the top operation, and model years '97-'02 have eleven cylinders (the left tonneau lock has been omitted as of 1997). If you are seeing ANY of the nine or ten rear cylinders leaking, then it is time to have ALL cylinders with original seals upgraded. The seal decay is a chemical reaction that is accelerated by heat or the wrong fluid in the system. All cylinders in the rear are exposed to about the same temperature, which makes them all fail at roughly the same time. The two front lock cylinders 1298001672 usually fail a little sooner, because they are in an area above the windshield that can get very hot.

Below is some text copied from our website, www.tophydraulicsinc.com.

Top Hydraulics' cylinder rebuild service is widely known as the best possible option, even if you are an excellent Do-It-Yourselfer. Note also our rebuild service for hydraulic valve blocks, distributors, and pumps, as well as manufacture of hoses for your cabriolet hydraulics. See our DIY Instructions section for cylinder removal instructions: http://www.tophydraulicsinc.com/en/c...y-instructions. DIY cylinder rebuild will usually lead to unintended damage - we have seen thousands of ruined cylinders from failed DIY repair attempts!

Note two service levels: Either you send in your cylinders first, or choose optional "up-front shipping".

Model years 90-96 have twelve hydraulic cylinders that move and lock the roadster soft top. The original seals in the hydraulic cylinders, aka rams or actuators, will eventually fail in every R129, unless it gets wrecked prematurely, even if you never drive the car or have never used the top before.
Rebuilding these cylinders is NOT a matter of changing o-rings. Every R129 cylinder has one o-ring, and those rarely ever fail. What fails most frequently, are the other seals, which have special shapes for proper function. Top Hydraulics replaces and upgrades ALL seals in the cylinders with superior material:

1) Rod seals. They are cup-shaped and seal the piston rod from the rest of the cylinder. When they fail, you will see fluid coming out next to the chromed shaft (rod). These are usually the first seals to fail in the cylinders.
2) Piston seals. They seal the input and output sections from each other, as the piston slides through the cylinder. The piston seals have been made of different materials and sizes even in the same p/n cylinders throughout the years. Failing piston seals will cause internal leaks, which result in a pressure drop in your hydraulic system. Early model years have the added problem that the piston seals swell up and make it very hard to move the piston inside the cylinder. Crumbling piston seals can block valves or pinholes inside the hydraulic system, and it can be difficult to diagnose a piston seal failure without testing several cylinders once you find that your top is moving slowly or not at all.
3) Cap seals. These are just o-rings that seal the top cap of the cylinder from the housing. They are usually the last seals to fail, but these o-rings are penny items.
4) Port seals. They seal the hydraulic lines where they are pushed into the cylinders. Port seal failure is becoming more and more common as the R129s age. It also applies to the front distributor p/n 1298000022. Port seals have a special shape that makes them seal under pressure. O-rings wouldn't do the trick. They are secured by precisely machined brass rings (accuracy about 1/100 mm). DIY removal of the brass rings will almost certainly destroy the brass rings. Top Hydraulics installs port seals that are tighter than the originals, just in case the hydraulic line fittings have been scratched.

Cylinders and distributors upgraded by Top Hydraulics should easily outlast your car.

Relevant cylinder part numbers:
1298001672 aka A 129 800 16 72 top lock cylinders
1298000022 aka A 129 800 00 22 distributor
1298000072 aka A 129 800 00 72 tonneau lock cylinder(s)
1298000272 aka A 129 800 02 72 top drive cylinders aka main lift cylinders
1298001772 aka A 129 800 17 72 left bow extension cylinder aka fabric bow cylinder
1248000272 aka A 124 800 02 72 right bow extension cylinder aka fabric bow cylinder
1298002072 aka A 129 800 20 72 tonneau lift cylinder
1298002172 aka A 129 800 21 72 rear locking cylinders

Victor.km.lam

Hi Klaus,

Thanks for the detail of services. Couple of questions: 1st, what is AKA mean? Secondly, please elaborate the sentence in your offering "Expedited Up Front Shipping aka Core Exchange Option includes a $100 Refundable Core Charge plus a $30 surcharge for inventory management".

So, if I choose the Up Front Shipping service, how much actually will cost me per cylinder when I returned my old cylinder to you within 30 days without damage? What is shipping cost to Australia?

Please also advice is that any tricky thing that I've to beware of during replacement procedures? what kind of Hydraulic fluid is compatible for my 1997 SL280?

Thanks,
Victor

Victor

Victor.km.lam

Hi Klaus,

Checked again the rear center console and storage compartment today. Nothing I can see that the switch can be attached it to and checked no bad connection or wiring can be found in the controller.

Another NEW loose plug found inside the second storage compartment with number of 927452 on the plug (pictures attached). Any idea what is it?

Victor

rorf

AKA = also known as

If you visit the Top Hydraulics website then everything will be self explanatory, even details on how to remove and re install all the cylinders.

My cylinders are at this moment being repaired by Klaus.

The last electrical connector you have shown is the radio connector to the booster amp - you might have an upgraded head unit so that's why it is disconnected.

Top Hydraulics

You would be paying a refundable deposit first, plus the up-front shipping service is a bit more expensive than the service level where you send in your cylinders first. You actually get 60 days to return your original cylinders - we understand that international customers have to consider shipping times. Not counting shipping and deposit, you would be paying us $85 per cylinder or $850 per full set of 11 or 12 cylinders, or $930 per full set of cylinders and distributor above the windshield. The service level where you send in your cylinders first, is $55 per cylinder, or $550 per set of 11 or 12 cylinders, or $630 per full set with distributor. Either way, this is a small fraction of the price you would be paying the dealer, plus you get parts that are much better than brand new OEM parts.

Shipping to Australia via USPS Express Mail takes about a week. Up to 4 pounds of parts would currently cost $50, and a full set would cost $80 to ship. For the return shipment, Australia Post averages 12-13 days.

You want to use ZH-M hydraulic fluid for any Mercedes convertible top. The Mercedes part number is 0009899103, also known as A0009899103 or A0009899103-10.

In the US, the best alternative is FeBi 02615, which is the same fluid, but without a dye in it. It can be found online for some $10/quart plus shipping.

In Europe, the alternative is Aral Vitamol.

In Australia, you would likely be finding Meyle 0009899103.

Another alternative is Pentosin CHF-11S, but it is not a Mercedes approved fluid and it is a bit thicker.

I do not believe that this switch is the cause of the resynching problem.

Rory, your cylinders arrived from South Africa on Saturday, which means they were in transit for nine days. Today is Monday, and your cylinders will likely be shipping back this afternoon... :-)

Klaus

www.tophydraulicsinc.com

cl600bill

My 1998 sl500 had a problem with windows/top/roll bar after a dead battery. Driving the car for a week or so, seem to synchronize the windows as they now work. The soft top switch glowed red for a while and then went out. The top goes up and down. However, the roll bar light is still on on the dash display and the roll bar switch is blinking. I can turn them off by turning the key to the second position and raising and lowering the roll bar but it comes back on the next time I start it. The "service advisor" at the dealer had no clue and called a technician who said raising and lowering the roll bar should reset the light if it locks upon raising. I do not hear a positive lock when raising it. Do not want to take it back to the dealer as they do not seem to recognize the problem. Any suggestions?

rorf

Raise the roll bar and hold the switch down for 5 seconds, lower it and do the same.

To synchronize the windows do likewise.

cl600bill

Thanks, I'll try that again. Did it once and lights went off and then returned the next time I started it.

adrian39

Hi,
Hard top not taken out for number of years,the problem is as follows:
When I pull the button to release the hard top nothing happens,however,if i push it forward it engages and pulls it back.Took if off manually,the light flashes all the time and it beebs while driving,took out the soft top manually too...
Things checked:
1.Fluid under the tyre ok,a bit dark thou
2.Fuses ok
3.Did the sinc with windows,when doing that the drivers window stopped working
4.New battery
Also,the roll bar activates very easily,and there is a constant buzzing noise just above the battery in a trunk.

HELP HELP HELP...

Top Hydraulics

Adrian39,

welcome to the forum! A few questions:

Where are you located?

This is an electrical problem - we just need to narrow it down together. When you first tried to take the hard top off, did the windows roll down?

When you hear the beeping (while driving), is that only with the soft top up? (We can fix it together, but need your response to determine which locks are involved.)

Is the driver window still not working, and exactly which position is it in?

A few comments while we are waiting for your response:

A) Dark hydraulic fluid in the hydraulic pump reservoir should get flushed. We can cover that procedure, its merits, and which fluid to use once your top is working again.
B) There is no window synch needed on model years 90-94 (except some 94s in most non-US countries)
C) Windows must work or be fully down in order for the top to operate.
D) The buzzing noise in the trunk is from the vacuum pump that is used for central locking. You have a vacuum leak somewhere. This is not related to the top.

Klaus

www.tophydraulicsinc.com

adrian39

Hi Klaus,
I am in London, the car doesn't beep when the soft top is on, it just beeps and light flashes when there's no top at all.
Both windows were working when tryed to take if off, the passenger window still works.
Will change the fluid tmw and let you know how I get on...thank you very much

Top Hydraulics

Adrian39,

thanks for your response so late in the evening (your time).
Normally, the beeping/chiming means that one of the latches is not fully locked when the top is up. If you get the chime only while the top is down (and you have put it down manually), then the first guess would be that one of your two tonneau cover latches is not fully locked. Let's deal with the tonneau cover locks first. (I have never checked, but it is possible that the soft top controller ignores the tonneau cover locks when the soft top is up or the hard top is on.) Tonneau cover, storage cover, case caver, and stowage cover are synonyms.

Did you slam the tonneau cover down, or did you lock it with the 10-mm wrench on the soft top tool? If you locked it all the way with the tool, then I do not suspect that it is the problem. If you only pushed the cover into the locks, then they may well not have locked all the way. The reason for the latter would be swelling, original piston seals in the tonneau cover lock cylinders 1298000072, which make it very hard to move the cylinders manually.

If it wasn't the tonneau cover locks, then check if one of the front locks was accidentally locked manually (that hard to do, but it's possible). If you cannot turn the locks in either direction with your soft top wrench, then they are open.

I take it that your driver window still doesn't work. You need to find out what's wrong with it, or you will never get the top to work. first, check the fuse for that window in the trunk's (boot's) fuse panel. Check closely - there may be corrosion or a hairline crack. If that wasn't it, I would remove the door panel and check whether the window motor is getting any voltage once you press the window button, or if it will move if you supply 12VDC directly to the motor.

Remember that you need the proper fluid for the top. In England, that may be Aral Vitamol, or Mercedes fluid A0009899103. You could also use Pentosin CHF-11S. Please let us know for future reference. For thorough flushing, it is most convenient to have a working top. Empty the reservoir first, clean sludge out of the bottom if needed (the reservoir attached with a hose clamp), and fill with proper fluid. Direct the fluid return line (now going into the top of the reservoir on your '90) into a waste container and cycle the top until only clear fluid comes out of the return line. Don't forget to cycle the roll bar.

Klaus

www.tophydraulicsinc.com

adrian39

Dear Klaus,

I striped the door to see if any thing may be the matter with the mechanisim,all good there,tested the switch and its fine too,the second fuse in the boot looked like it had a bit of a burn out,however it was ok,took out all the fuses and made sure of good connection.
Basically,when i press the window switch of the drivers side i hear a click behind the drivers side,which in UK as you know is the right hand side.
Any ideas??

Kind regards

Adrian

Top Hydraulics

Adrian, just for clarification, which switch did you test? The switch on the console is rarely ever the problem, and I don't know if this is the switch you were referring to. A brief answer to your question, before I get into more detail:
1) The click you are hearing is a relay in the soft top controller trying to activate the window motor. Power to the window motors goes directly from the controller's relay to the motors.
2) As I wrote in my previous post, you need to find out whether voltage is actually getting to the window motor.

A few comments:
While we are talking about switches, a weak spot in early 90s models is the lower window limit switch S21/8. It was used in model years 90-94 in US models, which translates into model years 89-93/94 in other countries. This could have been the problem with your hard top initially not unlocking and with the soft top not closing if the sequence stopped after the tonneau cover was raised. The problem with switch S21/8 could be a bent lever, the switch could be impacted by dirt or rust around it, have bad wires, or have a poor contact to ground. Here it is:



Your problem is electrical. You have checked the fuses in the trunk:



The problem with the old bullet style fuses is that corrosion on the contacts accelerates due to the dissimilar metal between the fuse and the fuse holder. Also, hair line cracks in the fuses are sometimes hard to spot. There are four top-related fuses in the trunk's fuse box: LH window motor, RH window motor, convertible top controller, and the 40A fuse for the pump.

One more trick for owners of early model year SLs: check if the horn works. The horn's fuse in the engine compartment (I was told it is #6) also supplies power to the soft top controller.

Klaus

www.tophydraulicsinc.com
http://www.tophydraulicsinc.com/en/18-r129-sl-90-96
http://www.tophydraulicsinc.com/en/19-r129-sl-97-02

adrian39

Hi Klaus,

I stripped the door again to check this switch,it is at the bottom of the door,right?I did press it couple of times but I did not know how else to check to know if its faulty!!!
Anyway,took the roof off manually today,here in London sunny days are rare,so I put up with the constant beeping,I checked the front latches,they seem fine,is there anyway i can simply kill this beeping,like a fuse or a relay,since the roof has to wait till i fix the windows...

Kind regards

Adrian

adrian39

Hi,
Can anyone tell me how to turn the beeping off on the mercedes r129 1990,it is beeping and saying that i must have a latch open or the uncomplete closure of the roof,i have taken the roof off manually and will be sending the car to the shop,however i just want to enjoy these sunny days in london....so there must be a fuse or a relay or i could even kill the speaker if i knew where it is....

Thanking you in advance

Adrian

adrian39

Hi,
Can anyone tell me how to turn the beeping off on the mercedes r129 1990,it is beeping and saying that i must have a latch open or the uncomplete closure of the roof,i have taken the roof off manually and will be sending the car to the shop,however i just want to enjoy these sunny days in london....so there must be a fuse or a relay or i could even kill the speaker if i knew where it is....

Thanking you in advance

Adrian