SL/R129: 1996 SL500 electric windows and convertible top
04-20-2014, 09:13 PM
#76
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And a dozen fuses later, I have figured out that the "down" of the window works just fine; it lowers the window. The "up" causes an immediate blown fuse.
Motor works fine in both directions; put a battery on it and flipped the positive/negative back and forth to get the window to go up and down.
Motor works fine in both directions; put a battery on it and flipped the positive/negative back and forth to get the window to go up and down.
Klaus
www.tophydraulicsinc.com
04-20-2014, 09:17 PM
#77
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I'm having issues with soft top on 97 SL320. Top does not go down. When I push the control button backward, red light stays on until windows get about half way down and continues to blink. Windows go down but at the point in the cycle when the top mechanism should begin its routine, nothing but silence.
I had top replaced recently and replaced battery when I got the car home but did not attempt to lower top until recently. I unhooked negative battery lead, let it set for 24 hrs, then followed procedure to synchronize windows but still no response with top except for windows lowering.
Anyone have other suggestions?
I had top replaced recently and replaced battery when I got the car home but did not attempt to lower top until recently. I unhooked negative battery lead, let it set for 24 hrs, then followed procedure to synchronize windows but still no response with top except for windows lowering.
Anyone have other suggestions?
welcome to the forum! You are mentioning two potential culprits: battery replaced and soft top canvas replaced.
First, let's make sure the windows are synchronized: do they drop a fraction of an inch when you open the doors?
Klaus
www.tophydraulicsinc.com
04-21-2014, 07:53 PM
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1995 SL500 / 85 380SL
Klaus
I think the window motor is ok in both directions. I flipped the wires at the door connection (black/white to green/white & green/white to black/white), hit the lower button on the switch, and the window went up just fine. My various experiments point to the green/white wire going into the controller. So, I'm guessing the little green/white wire, from the switch to the controller (which passes continuity testing) is the signal from the switch, to the controller to release power to the big green/white wire (and window should go in the UP direction), but that's when it pops the fuse.
Is it possible to have a controller tested? I've seen eBay ads for $250 rebuilds of the controller ... does anyone have any experience with these? And before I go that route, I'm definitely planning on opening the controller, so any tips, advice, links, etc., would be much appreciated.
I think the window motor is ok in both directions. I flipped the wires at the door connection (black/white to green/white & green/white to black/white), hit the lower button on the switch, and the window went up just fine. My various experiments point to the green/white wire going into the controller. So, I'm guessing the little green/white wire, from the switch to the controller (which passes continuity testing) is the signal from the switch, to the controller to release power to the big green/white wire (and window should go in the UP direction), but that's when it pops the fuse.
Is it possible to have a controller tested? I've seen eBay ads for $250 rebuilds of the controller ... does anyone have any experience with these? And before I go that route, I'm definitely planning on opening the controller, so any tips, advice, links, etc., would be much appreciated.
04-21-2014, 08:05 PM
#79
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Klaus
I think the window motor is ok in both directions. I flipped the wires at the door connection (black/white to green/white & green/white to black/white), hit the lower button on the switch, and the window went up just fine. My various experiments point to the green/white wire going into the controller. So, I'm guessing the little green/white wire, from the switch to the controller (which passes continuity testing) is the signal from the switch, to the controller to release power to the big green/white wire (and window should go in the UP direction), but that's when it pops the fuse.
Is it possible to have a controller tested? I've seen eBay ads for $250 rebuilds of the controller ... does anyone have any experience with these? And before I go that route, I'm definitely planning on opening the controller, so any tips, advice, links, etc., would be much appreciated.
I think the window motor is ok in both directions. I flipped the wires at the door connection (black/white to green/white & green/white to black/white), hit the lower button on the switch, and the window went up just fine. My various experiments point to the green/white wire going into the controller. So, I'm guessing the little green/white wire, from the switch to the controller (which passes continuity testing) is the signal from the switch, to the controller to release power to the big green/white wire (and window should go in the UP direction), but that's when it pops the fuse.
Is it possible to have a controller tested? I've seen eBay ads for $250 rebuilds of the controller ... does anyone have any experience with these? And before I go that route, I'm definitely planning on opening the controller, so any tips, advice, links, etc., would be much appreciated.
BBA is a reputable rebuilder of soft top controllers, and it is probably their ad that you have seen on eBay. Send them a message describing your problem, and ask if they can fix it. Otherwise, they may charge you a bench fee even if they cannot fix it.
Klaus
www.tophydraulicsinc.com
04-21-2014, 09:55 PM
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97 SL 320 Triple Black
Klaus,
I have detached both battery cables from the battery and am going to give it a few days before attempting to synchronize the windows. I tried removing only the negative, waiting 24 hrs, reattaching and synchronizing but no luck. No action on top and I don't believe windows dropped the space they should but cannot reconfirm at this time as cables off. I will run through the steps in a few days and se what happens and report back.
One question, should both windows be lowered/raised/held to synchronize simultaneously in order to be successful or may the be operated independently to synchronize?
Thanks for your help.
I have detached both battery cables from the battery and am going to give it a few days before attempting to synchronize the windows. I tried removing only the negative, waiting 24 hrs, reattaching and synchronizing but no luck. No action on top and I don't believe windows dropped the space they should but cannot reconfirm at this time as cables off. I will run through the steps in a few days and se what happens and report back.
One question, should both windows be lowered/raised/held to synchronize simultaneously in order to be successful or may the be operated independently to synchronize?
Thanks for your help.
04-22-2014, 10:59 AM
#81
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Klaus,
I have detached both battery cables from the battery and am going to give it a few days before attempting to synchronize the windows. I tried removing only the negative, waiting 24 hrs, reattaching and synchronizing but no luck. No action on top and I don't believe windows dropped the space they should but cannot reconfirm at this time as cables off. I will run through the steps in a few days and se what happens and report back.
One question, should both windows be lowered/raised/held to synchronize simultaneously in order to be successful or may the be operated independently to synchronize?
Thanks for your help.
I have detached both battery cables from the battery and am going to give it a few days before attempting to synchronize the windows. I tried removing only the negative, waiting 24 hrs, reattaching and synchronizing but no luck. No action on top and I don't believe windows dropped the space they should but cannot reconfirm at this time as cables off. I will run through the steps in a few days and se what happens and report back.
One question, should both windows be lowered/raised/held to synchronize simultaneously in order to be successful or may the be operated independently to synchronize?
Thanks for your help.
it does not make a difference whether you disconnect one or both cables from the battery. I am afraid that disconnecting the battery is quite overrated. It rarely helps, only in special cases of code overload. When reconnecting the battery in your case, please make sure to reconnect positive first and negative last.
In case your window synchronization is not going to be successful, please make sure of the following: Have the top fully locked in the front (or top in the storage compartment), and have the trunk closed all the way, as well as doors closed and engine off. Hope this does the trick. If not, then we will take it from there.
You can synchronize the windows individually or simultaneously.
Klaus
www.tophydraulicsinc.com
04-29-2014, 01:26 PM
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1995 SL500 / 85 380SL
OK, the weather is lousy again, so my continuing experiments are on hold. In the meantime, I wanted to verify: Is it true that the driver window switch has 4 and only 4 wires:
Brown
Green/white
Black/white
Blue/grey
Brown
Green/white
Black/white
Blue/grey
05-03-2014, 09:32 AM
#83
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1995 SL500 / 85 380SL
Controller repaired ... DIY!
Klaus
Exciting stuff happening. It starts with my naturally cheap nature; I removed the soft top controller and took it apart. Visual inspection looks OK, so I guessed it may be the relay. Using my multimeter, I figured out which relay controlled the driver window. $15 for a new Siemens relay off of eBay.
Now the hard part: Removing the old relay w/o destroying the board. I tried "de-soldering" to no avail; finally, I had to brute force it out (being as patient as you can be when tearing something apart bit by bit). 4 hours later, I had the relay out. 30 minutes more and I had soldered in the new relay.
Put it in the car, and voila, the driver window now works -- DOWN and UP. Top behaves the exact same behavior as before (it stops its routine when it's time to release the front latches) but that's a new puzzle.
For now: off to my son's soccer game. Here are some pictures. In my pics, the left relay is for the driver window and the right is for passenger window.
Exciting stuff happening. It starts with my naturally cheap nature; I removed the soft top controller and took it apart. Visual inspection looks OK, so I guessed it may be the relay. Using my multimeter, I figured out which relay controlled the driver window. $15 for a new Siemens relay off of eBay.
Now the hard part: Removing the old relay w/o destroying the board. I tried "de-soldering" to no avail; finally, I had to brute force it out (being as patient as you can be when tearing something apart bit by bit). 4 hours later, I had the relay out. 30 minutes more and I had soldered in the new relay.
Put it in the car, and voila, the driver window now works -- DOWN and UP. Top behaves the exact same behavior as before (it stops its routine when it's time to release the front latches) but that's a new puzzle.
For now: off to my son's soccer game. Here are some pictures. In my pics, the left relay is for the driver window and the right is for passenger window.
05-03-2014, 11:28 AM
#84
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Awesome! Please post the Siemens part number, while you have it available.
Next, check window synchronization again. Hold the window buttons on the console UP for a few seconds after the windows are up (with the trunk lid fully closed and doors shut and engine off). Is the stubborn driver window now dropping a fraction of an inch after you open the door?
A switch inside the door latch gives the signal that the door is open (and makes the controller lower the window a bit), and the thinner wires going to the window motor are for the Hall effect sensor that counts the window motor revolutions.
Klaus
www.tophydraulicsinc.om
Next, check window synchronization again. Hold the window buttons on the console UP for a few seconds after the windows are up (with the trunk lid fully closed and doors shut and engine off). Is the stubborn driver window now dropping a fraction of an inch after you open the door?
A switch inside the door latch gives the signal that the door is open (and makes the controller lower the window a bit), and the thinner wires going to the window motor are for the Hall effect sensor that counts the window motor revolutions.
Klaus
www.tophydraulicsinc.om
05-03-2014, 12:25 PM
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1995 SL500 / 85 380SL
Top works
Klaus
You beat me to the punch.
Life is good. Did the windows synchronization thing ... went to my son's soccer game. 2 hours later, came home, tested the top, and the top works perfect, up and down. Windows automatically lower when opening a door. Yowsa.
Siemens V23078-C1002-A303 Relay for BMW VW Mercedes; $15 on eBay from BMWGM5 (tried to paste the link but too big). Arrived in 2 days.
Still have a blinking rollbar switch when the bar is down ... but that can wait for another day.
Klaus, thanks again. It was your initial (and correct) diagnosis that the PO had window problems that started me down the correct path.
You beat me to the punch.
Life is good. Did the windows synchronization thing ... went to my son's soccer game. 2 hours later, came home, tested the top, and the top works perfect, up and down. Windows automatically lower when opening a door. Yowsa.
Siemens V23078-C1002-A303 Relay for BMW VW Mercedes; $15 on eBay from BMWGM5 (tried to paste the link but too big). Arrived in 2 days.
Still have a blinking rollbar switch when the bar is down ... but that can wait for another day.
Klaus, thanks again. It was your initial (and correct) diagnosis that the PO had window problems that started me down the correct path.
05-04-2014, 03:08 PM
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97 SL 320 Triple Black
James,
it does not make a difference whether you disconnect one or both cables from the battery. I am afraid that disconnecting the battery is quite overrated. It rarely helps, only in special cases of code overload. When reconnecting the battery in your case, please make sure to reconnect positive first and negative last.
In case your window synchronization is not going to be successful, please make sure of the following: Have the top fully locked in the front (or top in the storage compartment), and have the trunk closed all the way, as well as doors closed and engine off. Hope this does the trick. If not, then we will take it from there.
You can synchronize the windows individually or simultaneously.
Klaus
www.tophydraulicsinc.com
it does not make a difference whether you disconnect one or both cables from the battery. I am afraid that disconnecting the battery is quite overrated. It rarely helps, only in special cases of code overload. When reconnecting the battery in your case, please make sure to reconnect positive first and negative last.
In case your window synchronization is not going to be successful, please make sure of the following: Have the top fully locked in the front (or top in the storage compartment), and have the trunk closed all the way, as well as doors closed and engine off. Hope this does the trick. If not, then we will take it from there.
You can synchronize the windows individually or simultaneously.
Klaus
www.tophydraulicsinc.com
Finally got around to reconnecting battery (+ first, - second), after letting things sit for couple of weeks hoping my SL320 would maybe unlearn bad codes. I resynched windows and they now lower correct distance when doors are opened.
However, when I initiate the sequence to lower the top, the windows lower all the way and top button stays red till windows are lowered. Once windows are lowered, button blinks continually and nothing else occurs. There is no sound, really, as I continue to hold the button in the down position that indicates the system is attempting to do anything. Also, the roll bar does not raise and there is no sound as I push the button to raise it.
I know there is a controller module related to top/roll bar function but also wondering is possibly might be fuse somewhere that could be bad? Just hoping for something simple.
05-04-2014, 04:28 PM
#88
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I resynched windows and they now lower correct distance when doors are opened.
However, when I initiate the sequence to lower the top, the windows lower all the way and top button stays red till windows are lowered. Once windows are lowered, button blinks continually and nothing else occurs. There is no sound, really, as I continue to hold the button in the down position that indicates the system is attempting to do anything. Also, the roll bar does not raise and there is no sound as I push the button to raise it.
I know there is a controller module related to top/roll bar function but also wondering is possibly might be fuse somewhere that could be bad? Just hoping for something simple.
However, when I initiate the sequence to lower the top, the windows lower all the way and top button stays red till windows are lowered. Once windows are lowered, button blinks continually and nothing else occurs. There is no sound, really, as I continue to hold the button in the down position that indicates the system is attempting to do anything. Also, the roll bar does not raise and there is no sound as I push the button to raise it.
I know there is a controller module related to top/roll bar function but also wondering is possibly might be fuse somewhere that could be bad? Just hoping for something simple.
indeed, the fuses are the next thing to check. There is a fuse box in the trunk, close to the right trunk hinge. It has a number of fuses that are related to the convertible top. They are labelled.
By chance, do you have a chime coming on when you put the car in gear?
Klaus
www.tophydraulicsinc.com
05-04-2014, 05:16 PM
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97 SL 320 Triple Black
Checked fuses and they are good. There is no fuse in slot #7. My manual lists the trunk box as an auxiliary box and neither box or cover are labeled.
If there should be a fuse in open slot what amp?
I seem to recall an initial ding the first or second time I tried to lower top after reconnecting battery and synching windows but only once (if indeed it dinged and my memory isn't playing tricks on me) and not now.
If there should be a fuse in open slot what amp?
I seem to recall an initial ding the first or second time I tried to lower top after reconnecting battery and synching windows but only once (if indeed it dinged and my memory isn't playing tricks on me) and not now.
05-04-2014, 05:43 PM
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97 SL 320 Triple Black
Klaus, just checked the fuse panel under the hood and found list of fuses on printed card clipped inside box cover (if there is one similar for trunk it lost). Switched out fuse #19 in engine compartment box and attempted to drop top. Progress! Sort of, as when I attempted to lower top, everything works as it should, (windows lower, deck opens, top folds up as should), however, from that point forward, nothing else happens, top does not release from windshield. The first half of the sequence works perfectly, just not the second half.
05-04-2014, 06:26 PM
#93
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Klaus, attached (I hope) is pic of trunk fuse boxAttachment 285839
Klaus, just checked the fuse panel under the hood and found list of fuses on printed card clipped inside box cover (if there is one similar for trunk it lost). Switched out fuse #19 in engine compartment box and attempted to drop top. Progress! Sort of, as when I attempted to lower top, everything works as it should, (windows lower, deck opens, top folds up as should), however, from that point forward, nothing else happens, top does not release from windshield. The first half of the sequence works perfectly, just not the second half.
Just for completeness, in early model years ('90-'94, I believe), the matching fuse in the engine compartment is #6. It also powers the horn. Thus, simple engine compartment fuse check for soft top related problems on early model years: try the horn.
Fuse number 7 in the trunk's fuse box is for a trailer coupler, which you likely do not have. Attached below is a picture of the fuse chart for your '97, which should indeed have been clipped into the fuse box's cover. I suggest that you print the one I have attached.
I will post another reply regarding the next step.
Klaus
www.tophydraulicsinc.com
05-04-2014, 06:37 PM
#94
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[...] when I attempted to lower top, everything works as it should, (windows lower, deck opens, top folds up as should), however, from that point forward, nothing else happens, top does not release from windshield. The first half of the sequence works perfectly, just not the second half.
I seem to recall an initial ding the first or second time I tried to lower top after reconnecting battery and synching windows but only once (if indeed it dinged and my memory isn't playing tricks on me) and not now.
The left bow extension cylinder is somewhat hard to locate. See diagram below. It moves around inside the fabric bow as the top moves, generally some 6 inches above the main lift cylinder.
There is a good chance that the lever on the switch assembly is stuck, leaving a closed circuit (the small switch inside the switch assembly is normally closed electrically, but I am getting ahead of myself).
With the top up and the rear bow (rear window section) up, turn off the ignition. Move the rear bow back and forth along the highest spot. You should hear the micro switch on the left bow extension cylinder clicking shortly before the rear bow reaches the highest spot.
Let us know what you find.
Klaus
www.tophydraulicsinc.com
05-04-2014, 06:48 PM
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Horn works. Thanks for the diagram.
Even though I checked fuses and they seem ok, wonder if I should just replace all that have any connection with top? The one under the hood I replaced also appeared to be good but wasn't.
This whole top issue began after new top installed and top shop said there was leak (on garage floor and was not much), in hydraulic system. Top still functioned far as I know when top shop completed work. It was when I attempted to lower top to check hydraulic line/connections/cylinders that top would not function. I had replaced battery and based on what has followed, can only assume I somehow shorted something out in the process.
Even though I checked fuses and they seem ok, wonder if I should just replace all that have any connection with top? The one under the hood I replaced also appeared to be good but wasn't.
This whole top issue began after new top installed and top shop said there was leak (on garage floor and was not much), in hydraulic system. Top still functioned far as I know when top shop completed work. It was when I attempted to lower top to check hydraulic line/connections/cylinders that top would not function. I had replaced battery and based on what has followed, can only assume I somehow shorted something out in the process.
05-04-2014, 06:53 PM
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Your mind was probably not playing tricks on you regarding the chime, if you are having a problem with the left bow extension cylinder's micro switch. I have heard of it causing intermittent chiming on late model years.
The left bow extension cylinder is somewhat hard to locate. See diagram below. It moves around inside the fabric bow as the top moves, generally some 6 inches above the main lift cylinder.
There is a good chance that the lever on the switch assembly is stuck, leaving a closed circuit (the small switch inside the switch assembly is normally closed electrically, but I am getting ahead of myself).
With the top up and the rear bow (rear window section) up, turn off the ignition. Move the rear bow back and forth along the highest spot. You should hear the micro switch on the left bow extension cylinder clicking shortly before the rear bow reaches the highest spot.
Let us know what you find.
Klaus
www.tophydraulicsinc.com
The left bow extension cylinder is somewhat hard to locate. See diagram below. It moves around inside the fabric bow as the top moves, generally some 6 inches above the main lift cylinder.
There is a good chance that the lever on the switch assembly is stuck, leaving a closed circuit (the small switch inside the switch assembly is normally closed electrically, but I am getting ahead of myself).
With the top up and the rear bow (rear window section) up, turn off the ignition. Move the rear bow back and forth along the highest spot. You should hear the micro switch on the left bow extension cylinder clicking shortly before the rear bow reaches the highest spot.
Let us know what you find.
Klaus
www.tophydraulicsinc.com
I'll get on it and will probably take me a few days but will let you know progress.
If you want a good laugh, visualize me inside the car removing cabin wall and working on the unit. I am 6'6" and weigh about 220 lbs. you can quickly see why I was going to lower top to do check.
05-04-2014, 07:06 PM
#97
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Horn works. Thanks for the diagram.
Even though I checked fuses and they seem ok, wonder if I should just replace all that have any connection with top? The one under the hood I replaced also appeared to be good but wasn't.
This whole top issue began after new top installed and top shop said there was leak (on garage floor and was not much), in hydraulic system. Top still functioned far as I know when top shop completed work. It was when I attempted to lower top to check hydraulic line/connections/cylinders that top would not function. I had replaced battery and based on what has followed, can only assume I somehow shorted something out in the process.
Even though I checked fuses and they seem ok, wonder if I should just replace all that have any connection with top? The one under the hood I replaced also appeared to be good but wasn't.
This whole top issue began after new top installed and top shop said there was leak (on garage floor and was not much), in hydraulic system. Top still functioned far as I know when top shop completed work. It was when I attempted to lower top to check hydraulic line/connections/cylinders that top would not function. I had replaced battery and based on what has followed, can only assume I somehow shorted something out in the process.
All soft top related fuses are positively okay in your car, without need to replace, because your soft top is actually moving.
The scenario of a compromised micro switch assembly p/n 1298205510 mounted on the left fabric bow cylinder p/n 1298001772 can allow the top to close all the way, but not to open again. This can happen when top shops take out the whole soft top frame, or if they are careless around that switch assembly. I'm not saying they did anything wrong, but it's the first candidate on my list.
We will deal with your hydraulic leaks later. For now, please do the simple check listening for the micro switch clicking. It takes just a minute.
Klaus
www.tophydraulicsinc.com
05-07-2014, 12:29 PM
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97 SL 320 Triple Black
Klaus,
Top up, rear bow up, ignition off, moved rear bow back and forth (up and down) at highest spot and no clicking anywhere along the way. Is there anything else I should attempt?
Thanks so much for all your help.
Top up, rear bow up, ignition off, moved rear bow back and forth (up and down) at highest spot and no clicking anywhere along the way. Is there anything else I should attempt?
Thanks so much for all your help.
05-07-2014, 01:03 PM
#99
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diagnosing and repairing micro switch on fabric bow cylinder A129 800 17 72
congratulations, this gets us a lot closer and it explains the problems you have been having. If there is no clicking, then the micro switch assembly p/n 1298205510 is damaged or compromised. The top will not function properly without this switch working.
1) With the rear bow up, locate the left bow extension cylinder 1298001772. It is located inside the soft top frame, some 6 inches above and slightly in front of the main lift cylinder at that point. It moves with the frame as the top gets raised and lowered. You will actually see the micro switch assembly on top of the bow extension cylinder from this perspective. The picture below shows roughly what you will see - note that the switch assembly in the picture below has been crushed.
2) Familiarize yourself with the way this switch assembly works - take a close look at the picture below:
3) Figure out if and how badly the switch is damaged. It is possible that it is not getting triggered because the rectangular piece on top of the bow extension cylinder 1298001772 is pointed in the wrong direction, but more likely the switch assembly has been bent to some degree and is sticking.
4) If the damage is as light as in the photo below, then it is not too difficult to fix it in place:
For more info, check out the following thread: http://www.benzworld.org/forums/r129...-switch-p.html
Klaus
www.tophydraulicsinc.com
