Never-Again

Hi Gang,
So, I'm just trying to get some clarity on whether or not my 1997 SL500 has front & rear coil springs.
The car is presently with the painter getting some trim touched up (I haven't been underneath the car as of yet because I just got it) and I have to know whether or not the car has the coils.
Everything I see on the internet is very conflicting, even the information on OEM Mercedes parts suppliers.
I do not believe this car has the air suspension system.
My issue is.....I just bought a set of CEIKA coil over shocks and I opted for the "helper springs" for both the front and rear shocks.
The representative from CEIKA wrote me back and explained to me that they can't offer the helper springs for the rear shocks because of the "separate springs" which does & doesn't make any sense to me.
He also mentioned that they will make the coilover conversion for the fronts, and that they will have the "helper springs", but I'm still not sure if that eliminates the coil springs if-in-fact my car has coil springs.

Any guidance here would be most helpful, thanks in advance....

sushipaste

Yes you have front and rear coil springs, 4 total. No you don't have air suspension nor hydraulic. Just a standard strut (front), shock (rear) and coil spring setup.

Never-Again

Thank you, any recommendations on replacements coils (not necessarily lowering coils) because the coil over shocks I just bought will allow me to drop the car the fraction I want to lower it without any other modifications and I don't want to throw the camber off.

mahunt

Even if you had ADS, there would be 4 coil springs.

You don't want to lower the car with the shims?

Is the suspension on the car broken?

Never-Again

No, the suspension isn't broken but the shocks and the coil springs are shot, the car rides horribly.

This is my first SL500 and I don't know much about the car at all. I had no idea it could be lowered with shims, but I'm past that now.

I've already ordered the coil-over adjustable shocks so now I'll order a new set of coil springs as well so I'm starting off with new "everything"

The shocks I bought will give me the ability to slightly lower the car about a 1/4 of an inch just to take up the fender / wheel gap.

I've found a set of Bilstein's coil springs but I've found that everything they make to be a bit firm & harsh.


mahunt

Wait, the coil over solution you are moving to ALSO requires you use the original coils?

And you bought 4 brand new OEM coil springs?

Normally, coil overs allow you to delete the original spring/strut and spring/shock setups.

Does something seem wrong to you?

Never-Again

Exactly........I haven't ordered the coil springs yet, because of your point.

I'm trying to decipher whether I need them or not and I can't seem to get any solid answers.

So, please, let me know, can I eliminate the front & rear coli springs once I install the coil-over shocks, or do I need to keep either the fronts or rear's, or both?

I could really use some guidance here, thanks.....

mahunt

I've been working on my car a fair number of years and can't think of one person moving to coil overs.

There is, however, a wealth of information on this website and other sites for using lowering springs, shims and either Bilstein B4 or B6 dampers.

If your suspension is faulty, there is also an abundance of knowledge for repairing/replacing the front (A-arms) and rear suspension (five link) components.

A little more research BEFORE buying anything is always a good idea.

Never-Again

Absolutely, and you're correct....

I searched within many threads in this forum on this subject and found a lot of the typical conversations one finds in forums where there was a bunch of questions asked - that quickly delved into arguments & disagreements (as is the case in most forums) but not a lot of answers.

Sort of like what's happening now, I just need to know whether or not I can eliminate the coil springs once the coil-overs are installed.

There are several company's that make adjustable coil-over shocks for these cars and several people have done it, so it's not like getting the coil-overs was a bad decision.

I've sent an email request to the company where I bought the shocks because they don't provide a phone number.

Once I get to the heart of the matter I'll follow up with a post in case anybody in the future ever runs into this same situation and just needs an answer to their query.

Thanks for the info.....

mahunt

Really?

Let me direct you specifically.

You haven't read something where folks bought H&R lowering springs and either B4 or B6 dampers? Usually the only further conversation is about which shim to get for that perfect ride height they are seeking.

R129 websites should be littered with what to choose for A-arms, rear links and the results of those choices (Lemforder, Moog, Febi, Meyle, etc.).

For my own part, my rear links are adjustable with heim joints (ala RENNtech). Look it up.

crconsulting

@ Never-Again
I think what’s happening here is a nomenclature issue.
Do you have a link to those coil overs listing application? I’ve seen coil “conversions” for ADS (hydraulic) suspension such as this that people refer to as “coil overs” but they aren’t technically coil overs.
https://www.strutmasters.com/product...SABEgJlwvD_BwE

Then to confuse the issue there’s this also referred to as coil overs but they are just springs with an adjustable base. Not a true coil over either.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/28294749574...kevt=1&mkcid=1

But many people think of this below when they hear “coil over”. ie coil spring OVER a shock.

https://www.tarett.com/items/986-987...s9k-detail.htm

By design “coil overs” are just that, a coil spring over a shock to dampen.

It would be difficult for the shock to dampen TWO separate springs. That would introduce a lot of strange spring dynamics for one shock to control. It would be design redundancy adding weight for no purpose.

A coil over kit should also have the proper spring spec’d for that vehicle and application.

Never-Again

Yes, I've seen several threads where people are discussing coilover conversions for their cars but almost all of those conversations are referring to the newer models with the hydraulic setup.
And in most cases the OP's question never really gets answered and the threads morph into other topics altogether.
(at least those are the threads I come across)
I sent an email to the company that sells the coilover shocks and they were very good about answering my questions.
The guy told me that their units replaces the need for the stock coils, and that I can eliminate them altogether once the coilover's are bolted in.
Here's the link to the company, enter in 1997 Mercedes Benz SL500 and you'll see what they offer:

https://ceika-store.com/products/cei...1?locale=en_us

Once the shocks come in, I'm probably going to have my mechanic put them in because I'm super slammed with work these days, and I just have no time.
I can make all the adjustments myself, as I'm familiar with coilover's.
I installed a set on my 89 BMW 635CSI, but they were much easier due to the fact that BMW's doesn't have the extra coil
springs the way the Mercedes does. (so naturally I didn't have these same questions)
The only thing I had to do was have the sleeves welded into the lower spindle base.

Again, thanks for the tips, it is appreciated.

crconsulting

​​​​​
The shocks in your link are true coil overs. Hence no need for the other (original) spring.
Get some pics of those installed!

Never-Again

Understood, but yes these are legitimate coilover shocks.
I decided to go with coilover's on this car because I had good success with them on my BMW.

Here's the link to the company that sells them:
https://ceika-store.com/products/cei...1?locale=en_us

Once these are installed I'll come back with a follow up and hopefully I can add more information & clarity.

Thanks for the reply.....

Never-Again

Promise I will......

mahunt

I can see that nothing more needs to be written on my part.

Your "facts" about R129 suspensions are a little off.

Bonne chance.

sushipaste

Why didn't you just get Bilstein B4 or OE sachs shocks, then add H&R springs lol? 1 inch perfect amount of lowering with factory ride quality but slight improved cornering. Simple.

My 01' is on B4s and H&R. #1 front shims and #3 rear buffers

Never-Again

As I've stated throughout the thread, this is my first ever Mercedes, and besides all of the research I did on the car before I purchased it, and what I've seen in various Mercedes forums, I know very little in the way of the car's suspension system.
Most of the threads I've read concerning suspensions for these cars are filled with content related to the later models with the hydraulic/air systems.
Lastly, I own an 89 BMW 635CSI and I had Bilstein's on her for years as well as another vehicle of mine and politely........I hate them.
Bilstein's give a very harsh, hard ride (in my opinion) and this a Mercedes after all.
The whole point of getting this car was for that famous "Mercedes ride" feel.
Also, I have no idea just how much the car will need to be lowered to fill in the wheel/gap space as I'm putting custom made wheels on the car, with "not OEM" offsets.
Coilover's gives you the ability to "adjust" which is what I need.
Once they're on, I can see exactly where to set them and exactly what thickness of spacers to get for the wheels so I can achieve that "flush" wheel/fender look.
I replaced the Bilstein's that I had on the BMW with coilover's and I love them.