Okay I know this has been vented in various guises on separate occasions but now that there has been a new 911 I wondered what people's thoughts are on a comparison between these two cars. And when I say comparison I am not just talking about driving, handling etc but also servicing, things going wrong, appeal and how the store/servicer has treated you. I know this is a mercedes forum but i hope people can be as unbiased as possible. Is the SL truely the best car out there? Or is there some work that still needs to be done? Does the 911 bring more of a smile to the face? Are Mercedes standards slipping? Are porsche on the way up or just having problems? Serious discussion please as I am genuinely interested. Thanks

 

Neil - you're a rabble-rouser...but I, for one, appreciate a good discussion.

 

There is a reason I own three cars.. because all 3 are 100% completely different and suited for different purposes... comparing a 911 to an sl is like comparing my 7 series to either one of those..

 

Why?

 

I have owned five SL's. I really enjoyed my SL600 but found little annoyances which chased me away from the car, mostly because of the brakes and the lousy stereo. All SL's weigh too much, in my opinion, which, despite the efforts of ABC, detract from the handling. They pretty much drive like Mercedes sedans, which are nice for carrying passengers, but not so nice for cornering fun. Lately I have also been bothered by the depreciation suffered across the Mercedes line. I recently attended a meeting with a small group of AMG owners and everyone lamented the depreciation, particularly of the CL/SL/S65 models. I am waiting for the inevitable class action lawsuit.

So last week I picked up a 2006 Porsche 911S tiptronic. I have owned Porsche 911's before and had two major issues with them- the interior build quality seemed like an afterthought. Sure the brakes were strong, but the turn signal stalk felt like it was ready to come off in your hands. Plus there were lots of interior rattles from the plastic in the dash. The second issue I had was with the ride quality which was biased towards the otherworldly handling, but objectionably rough as a daily driver, at least for my sensitive butt.

The 997 addresses these two issues. The interior build is much better. One of the things I have always liked about Porsche interiors is the ability to customize them. How many manufacturers selling cars under $100K will build you a completely green interior (you might well ask who cares, but I am delighted with this uniqueness) including the dash, carpeting and steering wheel? Now the interior feels solid and rattle free. There is even a decent stereo and two cup holders that seem to work.

With the advent of PASM, Porsche's adjustable suspension, the touring setting is soft enough to be an acceptable daily driver (unless I lived in a city and then it would probably still be too rough). I certainly appreciate the lightweight and responsive handling better now that I don't have to be beaten up to enjoy it.

Another plus that I had not expected is that the Porsche seats (the extra cost electric ones) are more comfortable for me that the SL seats, which I always found to be misshapen for my body.

Of course I miss the retractable hardtop (but not the rattles that, in most of my cars, accompanied it). I am embarrassed to admit to you all that later this week I am selling my last Mercedes, my beloved diesel, and may no longer be welcome on this forum. I may come back once the new CL comes out.

 

Thank you.

I must say that I share many of your thoughts. I have actually recently looked at the 997 and I must say the improvements are quite remarkable.

As you mention, the customization program is unbelievable. I could not believe what you can do to that car. There is however one item that they don't have which is preventing me from pulling the trigger and that is that they don't have SIRIUS radio. That is a must for me and I understand they are working on it.

I will say however that I have heard of a few people that say they had their share of problems with their Porsche. I have no idea to what level. Most people seem to love them.

 

I agree this is an oversight. My dealer installs it for $1500 (Yow!) and told me that it integrates with the PCM, which is the Porsche nerve center for the stereo. For this much money, I decided to buy $500 worth of CD's instead.

 

HAHAHAHA! What isn't expensive to add to a Porsche?
I agree the new 997's are really something else. I have a Cayman S on order just for the fun of it - I see it as a Boxter with more power, a hardtop, and some luggage capacity. I am certainly counting on the interior to be better than what I have seen in the past....

 

Within 1,100 miles of driving on my porsche, I totaled up $47,000 in repair costs which included 2 engine transplants, a transmission, to begin.. a nightmare to say the least.. SL = lovin it and problem free

 

Just when I thought I had a good idea.

 

I had a 2003 911 Turbo and loved it.

The interior had more space, room enough for a rear passenger in a pinch and it handled well and had a reasonably-sized trunk. It was fast, had no bad habits and not one maintenance issue after 10,000 miles...not one. But that was a SPORTS CAR.

My SL, however, is a different car. It is a GT car, through and through. It is heavier, less nimble, but plenty quick enough. It does not hold as much cargo as my Porsche did, but it is slightly more comfortable on a long trip. It does not garner any attention but living here in So Calif even Porsches are damn near invisible.

I've had a number of small issues with this Benz, maintenance wise.

If I had to rate them, here's how I'd stack them up:

Comfort: Slight nod to the Benz
Reliability: Porsche
Build quality: Porsche
Conveniences: Benz
Sex appeal: Porsche
Resale Values/Depreciation: Porsche
Sophistication: Benz
Features: Benz (hell...its a convertible, after all)
Braking: Porsche (brake by wire sucks on the track)
Acceleration: Slight nod to the Porsche
Handling: Porsche
Exterior styline: Porsche
Interior styling: Benz
Which car I'd rather take to the track: Porsche
Which car I'd rather valet: Benz

I guess it all depends on which category(ies) are most important to you.

For me, my next car, if it is not in the GT class, will be another sports car for sure and probably a Porsche.

 

Nice summary. You left out one.

Noise: Benz

I've had several 911s, and, while wind noise is well-controlled on the later ones, road noise is much louder than in the SL. I think Porsche skimped on insulation to keep the weight down. A good tradeoff if your main goal is handling, but one with negative consequences if you want to listen to the radio.

Jim

 

Supurbly done!

Once Porsche puts SIRIUS in the car factory installed, I am in.

 

Like you all my cars fullfill different "needs" or "desires" in driving fun/practicality...I even have a ford Exploder that I don't list, because sometimes you need to haul the dog/got to the nursery or even pick up a piece of furniture...none of which i would choose to do with my other toys.

 

the porsche actually can fit quite a bit of people in it.. i've had 5 people in it before.. was a tight fit.. but it worked.. the SL on the other hand, is pretty much a straight 2 seater.. which works good when you don't want to bring certain people with you to certain locations <g>

 

My two cents,

I've owned both a 997 and an R230. The biggest difference for me has been build quality and reliability.

I've had my new '05 911 for 11 months, and it's been back to the dealer once for an oil change.

I sold my new '03 SL after 18 mos. because it had been to the dealership 15 times for lots of problems, from broken top mechanism, to brake recall, to electric shorts, to Parktronics that sounded off while driving thirty miles per hour, to the numerous obnoxious and embarrassing the rattles. Other problems include the leaking trunk, the broken radio, and the ventilated seats that stayed on all the time, the constant pulling to the right, and the dead battery after sitting overnight in the "cold" 40 degrees.

The SL was a roadster -- and they've become quite popular here in L.A. among plastic surgeons and their girlfriends, while the Porsche 911 is a sports car more popular among the midlife crisis set like me.

There is one thing I miss about the SL500 -- it's a gorgeous car. Too bad MB can't screw it together properly.

 

I look at a 911 last week and fell in love with it. I told the salesman, I will get it when it has keyless go, automatic transmission, and blue tooth. The manager did not even listen to what I said, because he said he can put me in a 911 today because of his big inventory. His current inventory does not even have one with an automatic transmission.

 

Candidly, if I could get out of my SL for even money on a brand new 911 Turbo S, I'd go for it.

 

The 997 has a well known mechanical flaw - the rear main seal (RMS). The good news is; the dealers are typically well versed in dropping the tranny, pulling the flywheel, and replacing the seal. The bad news is; the dealers are well versed because it's a lousy design that they've had to live with for years. The 996, 986, and the 997 all suffer from these same accursed RMS failures. It's not the seal design. The seal design has been changed. Last I heard, Porsche was on their third seal design - and they still leak. Porsche even changed the RMS install tools, but nothing seems to matter. According to many, it's the M96 motor itself. If a customer compains, and the car is new, they swap the seal. If it still leaks, they install a new motor, which may leak too. Any RMS will eventually leak with normal wear. These have been known to leak at 3,000 miles. Of course, you may get lucky and have one that doesn't leak. For now.

 

Today we test-drove a 911S. I guess I will be getting one for my wife. She loves it and the 911 does not have a big blind spot like on the SL.

 

Very cool. Lucky woman. Enjoy!

 

I have both because they are two very different cars - I actually prefer the Porsche as a driver's car but for long distances and when the weather is fine, the SL wins. My 996 is noticeably quicker than an SL55 and of course being lighter, is more wieldy and corners better. It would be a tough call if I had to give up one, would most probably be the SL.

I had a shock last September when I drove a 911 with tiptronic for the first time - it was awful and felt as odd to drive as an SL would with a stick shift. People who want an auto box in a 911 are missing the point and should stick with the SL.

As for the Rear Main Seal (RMS) Marcus speaks about, this only applies to the non-turbo cars. The turbo engine uses a different crankcase design and does not suffer from the same problem, same applies to the GT2 which is a wild car. Here in the UK, you can buy an extended warranty, including road-side assistance, for about $1300 which is pretty much mandatory if you like to sleep at night. It's a pity they didn't sort it out for the 997 - Porsche cars are much more evolutionary than clean-sheet designs so much is carried over from one model to the next.

The SL has had a number of problems which are proving difficult to fix, like a leaking trunk, recalls on the brake system and that's their equivalent of the Porsche RMS problem. As for the long term reliability of the SL, it's too early to know. The oldest cars are only just 4 years old in Germany, 3 - 3.5 elsewhere. The SL is going to be an expensive proposition to maintain when it's 10 years old and 120000 miles.

 

This has been a common problem with rear engine VW and Porsche engines since the early days of both vehicles. I've owned VW's and worked on several other VW and Porsches and have changed many rear main seals. It's common knowledge that one should expect oil leaks with these vehicles. If you can live with that, then buy one if you want one. Besides, every other vehicle out there, including Benz vehicles, have their share of flaws.

 

Do you have the rear window wiper? We are deciding if we really need the rear window wiper.

 

I had the rear window wiper on my 996. I didn't use it much. The only time the rear window got wet was when the car was stopped, and the rain rapidly ran off once the car was moving at all rapidly.

Jim