SL/R230: R230 Production Numbers
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Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: Houston, Texas
2022 SL63, 2008 CL63
R230 Production Numbers
Does anyone know what the production numbers are for the 2003 and up SL500? I am curious to know and can't find this information anywhere.
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SLK55AMG
I don't have the exact number for you, but 25-35000 a year for that period is probably right.
This 2002 factory visit post guesstimates 30-35,000 based on daily production. Keep in mind that this was during the R230 launch when the SL was the hot ticket. So that was probably the high point.
https://mbworld.org/forums/newreply....te=1&p=2597634
MB lumps S/SL/SLR/Maybach sales for financial reporting, but in 2005 sold 72,000 of these units down 17% from 2004. Say we deduct 2,000 for Maybach and SLR and assume Mercedes sells S to SL at a 3:2 ratio, you'd have about 28,000 SL in '05.
http://ar2005.daimlerchrysler.com/cg...edes_car_group
For the 1990-2000 period, Mercedes sold an average of 4,600 R129 SLs in the US (low 1,721 and high 7,540) which I'm guessing is similar to the US sales range for the R230.
This 2002 factory visit post guesstimates 30-35,000 based on daily production. Keep in mind that this was during the R230 launch when the SL was the hot ticket. So that was probably the high point.
https://mbworld.org/forums/newreply....te=1&p=2597634
MB lumps S/SL/SLR/Maybach sales for financial reporting, but in 2005 sold 72,000 of these units down 17% from 2004. Say we deduct 2,000 for Maybach and SLR and assume Mercedes sells S to SL at a 3:2 ratio, you'd have about 28,000 SL in '05.
http://ar2005.daimlerchrysler.com/cg...edes_car_group
For the 1990-2000 period, Mercedes sold an average of 4,600 R129 SLs in the US (low 1,721 and high 7,540) which I'm guessing is similar to the US sales range for the R230.
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SL55AMG, Ferrari 348, Ferrari Testarossa, Ferrari F40, Ferrari Mondial t, Ducati 916, Indycar
However many they made is too many!!!
If they had the same philosophy as Ferrari.......If they think they can sell 1000 cars....make 999 of them! Our depreciation would be a bit more manageable!
If they had the same philosophy as Ferrari.......If they think they can sell 1000 cars....make 999 of them! Our depreciation would be a bit more manageable!
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2013 650i Coupe, 2010 IS250 AWD, 1999 S500
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From: Outside of Providence, RI
05 SL500
Too many
All of the above comments are true. One does not even have to look at Ferrari to see the problem of value that Mercedes has. At high end auto auctions, for example, an 05 SL500, maybe $100,000 new and an 05 Porsche 911 cabriolet, approx. same price new, will have at least a $15K spread in price. The SL will bring low $50 and the Porsche will bring at least mid $60s. Supply and demand. Also, factor in Mercedes wanting to saturate the market with inexpensive entry level models as well as specialty AMG models. This is not to say one is better than the other, just an observation of the market at work.
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SLK55AMG
I don't see how Ferrari pricing is in any way comparable to Mercedes SL pricing, SL55 or 600 included. Boarders seem fond of comparing the two marques, but as financial commodities, an exotic that cost several hundred thousand new vs. a mass-produced automobile like the SL (including AMG and 600 variants) aren't really similar.
I'd also respectfully disagree with the SL vs. 911 carrera cabriolet figures, due to asynchronous model update schedules.
Your specific 2005 example isn't analogous as that represents the previous SL500 iteration vs. the latest refreshed 997 iteration of the 911.
If you look at comparables such as:
2004 SL500 vs. 2004 911 cabriolet (996)
or
the refreshed 2007 SL550 vs. 2007 911 cabriolet (997)
you'll see that the figures are very comparable (actually the Mercedes values are higher).
2005 or 06 SL vs. 2005 or 06 Porsche will be in favor of the Porsche because the 997 Porsche is a dramatic improvement over the 996 and you're comparing old SL vs. New Porsche.
I'd also respectfully disagree with the SL vs. 911 carrera cabriolet figures, due to asynchronous model update schedules.
Your specific 2005 example isn't analogous as that represents the previous SL500 iteration vs. the latest refreshed 997 iteration of the 911.
If you look at comparables such as:
2004 SL500 vs. 2004 911 cabriolet (996)
or
the refreshed 2007 SL550 vs. 2007 911 cabriolet (997)
you'll see that the figures are very comparable (actually the Mercedes values are higher).
2005 or 06 SL vs. 2005 or 06 Porsche will be in favor of the Porsche because the 997 Porsche is a dramatic improvement over the 996 and you're comparing old SL vs. New Porsche.
Last edited by SDSL; Jan 16, 2008 at 02:47 PM.
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From: Outside of Providence, RI
05 SL500
Year Make Model
Series Body Style
Engine Type Transmission Type
Drive Type Odometer (M) Purchase Price (USD) Number
2006 PORSCHE 911 CARRERA 4 2DR 3.8L H6 AUTO 8,932 $70,750
2006 PORSCHE 911 2DR CONVERTIBLE 3.8L H6 AUTO 15,306 $66,500
2006 PORSCHE911 2DR CONVERTIBLE 3.8L H6 AUTO 9,850 $70,000
WDBSK71F07 5,700 M BLACK 01/10/2008 $63,500
Options: Leather CV CD CC PL PST PW PB NS AC PS
WDBSK71F97 2,256 M BLACK $67,000
Options: Leather MN CX CC PL PST PW PB NS AC PS
WDBSK71F97 6,301 M BLACK $66,700
Here are some recent numbers to backup my assertions of Porsche values to SL values. The amount spreads further in 05 and 04. The point is the price new to resale value, not whether an 06 Porsche should be compared to an 07 SL550. Bottom line, SLs tend to plummet from new pricing in real $$$ when compared to a comparable new priced Porsche.
Series Body Style
Engine Type Transmission Type
Drive Type Odometer (M) Purchase Price (USD) Number
2006 PORSCHE 911 CARRERA 4 2DR 3.8L H6 AUTO 8,932 $70,750
2006 PORSCHE 911 2DR CONVERTIBLE 3.8L H6 AUTO 15,306 $66,500
2006 PORSCHE911 2DR CONVERTIBLE 3.8L H6 AUTO 9,850 $70,000
WDBSK71F07 5,700 M BLACK 01/10/2008 $63,500
Options: Leather CV CD CC PL PST PW PB NS AC PS
WDBSK71F97 2,256 M BLACK $67,000
Options: Leather MN CX CC PL PST PW PB NS AC PS
WDBSK71F97 6,301 M BLACK $66,700
Here are some recent numbers to backup my assertions of Porsche values to SL values. The amount spreads further in 05 and 04. The point is the price new to resale value, not whether an 06 Porsche should be compared to an 07 SL550. Bottom line, SLs tend to plummet from new pricing in real $$$ when compared to a comparable new priced Porsche.
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SLK55AMG
This was your original assertion:
"...an 05 SL500, maybe $100,000 new and an 05 Porsche 911 cabriolet, approx. same price new, will have at least a $15K spread in price..."
You then posted some data for 2006 Porsches for your 2005 comparison (I assume to reach the "mid-sixties" level you cited), only two of which were convertibles and none of which were 911, all 3 of them are 911 S (3.8), which is about 10K more when new, and all 3 of which have automatic transmissions (+$3,500). I'm also NOT seeing the data for the comparable Mercedes SLs that shows the "at least $15k" price difference?
In general terms, the dealer trade-in price is the same price that the dealer is assuming he'll get at auction for the car.
These are the trade-in prices, from Edmunds for the last three model years.
05 SL 50,158 05 911 S Cab 56,339
06 SL 59,704 06 911 S Cab 66,079
07 SL 75,985 07 911 S Cab 76,003
You'll see that Edmund's 2006 number for Porsche is about the same as what you cite. You'll also see that the Porsche depreciates evenly over the three years, since they are unchanged 997 model specimens.
On the Merc side you'll notice that A) there's no $15k difference between the Merc and Porsche and you'll also see that the value of an 06 vs.07 is dramatically different than between an 05 and an 06 because 07 is of course the refreshed model.
The Porsche comparison is somewhat flawed, similar to the Ferrari argument. There are significantly more SL500s in the market place than 911 Carrera S cabriolets which of course impacts the pricing.
"...an 05 SL500, maybe $100,000 new and an 05 Porsche 911 cabriolet, approx. same price new, will have at least a $15K spread in price..."
You then posted some data for 2006 Porsches for your 2005 comparison (I assume to reach the "mid-sixties" level you cited), only two of which were convertibles and none of which were 911, all 3 of them are 911 S (3.8), which is about 10K more when new, and all 3 of which have automatic transmissions (+$3,500). I'm also NOT seeing the data for the comparable Mercedes SLs that shows the "at least $15k" price difference?
In general terms, the dealer trade-in price is the same price that the dealer is assuming he'll get at auction for the car.
These are the trade-in prices, from Edmunds for the last three model years.
05 SL 50,158 05 911 S Cab 56,339
06 SL 59,704 06 911 S Cab 66,079
07 SL 75,985 07 911 S Cab 76,003
You'll see that Edmund's 2006 number for Porsche is about the same as what you cite. You'll also see that the Porsche depreciates evenly over the three years, since they are unchanged 997 model specimens.
On the Merc side you'll notice that A) there's no $15k difference between the Merc and Porsche and you'll also see that the value of an 06 vs.07 is dramatically different than between an 05 and an 06 because 07 is of course the refreshed model.
The Porsche comparison is somewhat flawed, similar to the Ferrari argument. There are significantly more SL500s in the market place than 911 Carrera S cabriolets which of course impacts the pricing.
Last edited by SDSL; Jan 16, 2008 at 10:32 PM.
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From: Outside of Providence, RI
05 SL500
price differential
I gave you actual figures. I am just showing year to year valuations. These are actual figures from one of the highline auctions. I really could care less what Edmunds says. I see actual prices of the vehicles, whether from Mercedes Credit or Porsche Credit. Many times, options play little in wholesale values, mileage, condition and color play a big part. Look at a NADA book or a Galves book sometime, you will see what I am talking about.
Bottom line, a used Porsche, because of its scarcity, brings more money dollar for dollar used than the comparable MB that were simiarlly priced new.
Hey, I love my SL and I am not trying to put it down, I am just stating facts.
Bottom line, a used Porsche, because of its scarcity, brings more money dollar for dollar used than the comparable MB that were simiarlly priced new.
Hey, I love my SL and I am not trying to put it down, I am just stating facts.
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It's better to compare the 996 with the SL500. 2004 is a good MY.
I don't think there's any way to prevent the huge depreciation nowadays (for MB). Even limited production cars (AMG x65) are killed in the wholesale market. The only way to limit the free fall depreciation is to only produce a limited number of cars, like the SLR, and not go the sub-model route. But that isn't going to happen.
With the focus for most car companies being the bottom line, volume is number one priority. The number of leases are increasing every year, which further fuels the volume necessity.
I don't think there's any way to prevent the huge depreciation nowadays (for MB). Even limited production cars (AMG x65) are killed in the wholesale market. The only way to limit the free fall depreciation is to only produce a limited number of cars, like the SLR, and not go the sub-model route. But that isn't going to happen.
With the focus for most car companies being the bottom line, volume is number one priority. The number of leases are increasing every year, which further fuels the volume necessity.
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2006 CLK350
65's arent selling because at the end of the day, you have a 65, someone else has a 55, and the next has a 500. Sure, your car is much faster than anyone elses, but who cares? honestly, it is because MB makes 10000 classes, C, CLK, SLK, R, M, E. If they didnt make a CLK, I couldnt afford a MB.but since there are so many classes, its not really "special" to have a MB anymore. Look at the Maclaren Mercedes. THere werent too many produced, and still, there are many of them still for sale. Some really rich guy out there would rather spend 450k on a Carrera Gt, than have a mercedes, because everyone has a mercedes.
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From: Maui, Hawaii
CLS63, GLK350
65's arent selling because at the end of the day, you have a 65, someone else has a 55, and the next has a 500. Sure, your car is much faster than anyone elses, but who cares? honestly, it is because MB makes 10000 classes, C, CLK, SLK, R, M, E. If they didnt make a CLK, I couldnt afford a MB.but since there are so many classes, its not really "special" to have a MB anymore. Look at the Maclaren Mercedes. THere werent too many produced, and still, there are many of them still for sale. Some really rich guy out there would rather spend 450k on a Carrera Gt, than have a mercedes, because everyone has a mercedes.
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Super/Exotic cars, such as the Mclaren SLR, Carrera GT, F430, will always have a price floor. Due to the nature of these vehicles, there will always be a demand for it.
However, when you talk about an S class, AMG or not, the car will eventually depreciate down to the sub $10,000, or the cost of the parts of the car in the refurbished market.
That was the point I was trying to make, I don't think it came out clearly.
However, when you talk about an S class, AMG or not, the car will eventually depreciate down to the sub $10,000, or the cost of the parts of the car in the refurbished market.
That was the point I was trying to make, I don't think it came out clearly.
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2006 CLK350
Super/Exotic cars, such as the Mclaren SLR, Carrera GT, F430, will always have a price floor. Due to the nature of these vehicles, there will always be a demand for it.
However, when you talk about an S class, AMG or not, the car will eventually depreciate down to the sub $10,000, or the cost of the parts of the car in the refurbished market.
That was the point I was trying to make, I don't think it came out clearly.
However, when you talk about an S class, AMG or not, the car will eventually depreciate down to the sub $10,000, or the cost of the parts of the car in the refurbished market.
That was the point I was trying to make, I don't think it came out clearly.
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2006 CLK350
You could say the same about Lexus and BMW with their ES350's RX350's, 3series, X3's. Car people know the difference between a top of the line vehicle and the base cars. Non car people can't tell a chevy from a Lexus. I buy for my own pleasure. As long as the dealer takes care of me when I come in for service, I'll be happy. I would hope they would give some priority for a $100K+ vehicle over a $30K+ vehicle?
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 21
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From: NW FLA
03 SL500, 07 S550, 92 500SEL
Pointless Exercise
I gave you actual figures. I am just showing year to year valuations. These are actual figures from one of the highline auctions. I really could care less what Edmunds says. I see actual prices of the vehicles, whether from Mercedes Credit or Porsche Credit. Many times, options play little in wholesale values, mileage, condition and color play a big part. Look at a NADA book or a Galves book sometime, you will see what I am talking about.
Bottom line, a used Porsche, because of its scarcity, brings more money dollar for dollar used than the comparable MB that were simiarlly priced new.
Hey, I love my SL and I am not trying to put it down, I am just stating facts.
Bottom line, a used Porsche, because of its scarcity, brings more money dollar for dollar used than the comparable MB that were simiarlly priced new.
Hey, I love my SL and I am not trying to put it down, I am just stating facts.
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Only MBs - the best or nothing
I am a humble man who enjoys the finer things in life. One of those finer things is a beautiful piece of sheet metal from Germany. My SL was 8 years old at purchase and I am the third owner. Low miles, all options and looks to kill for.... The car listed for $120K. I paid 27 and couldn't be happier. I'll run the hell out of it for ten years and sell it for a loss. Who the hell cares. If you want to MAKE MONEY on cars you should be a car dealer!
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From: Washington DC Metro
2003 SL500, 2005 ML500 SE, 2005 CLK500 Cabriolet Avantgarde
Well said.
EVERY car depreciates in value. EVERY car. That may not be comforting to some, but that is the sad truth.
My philosophy is you either:
EVERY car depreciates in value. EVERY car. That may not be comforting to some, but that is the sad truth.
My philosophy is you either:
- Drive it into the ground.
- Sell it at a loss.
- Sell it even.
Last edited by egwu; Aug 13, 2012 at 10:51 AM.
Junior Member
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From: NW FLA
03 SL500, 07 S550, 92 500SEL
2003 plus all options and sales tax!!!! Do I need to send you a window sticker? The point I was trying to make is the value of the car is of little consequence if you like what you buy... I like nice cars and old ones that DO drop in price make them affordable. If you are lucky enough to get a cream puff with low miles all the better. It's still a crap shoot. One failed tranny or a/c unit and your joy of ownership really looks like a foolish pleasure.
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Posts: 314
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From: Malibu, Ca
SL65, 427 COBRA (CSX-3127)73 911S, 246GTS (DINO SPYDER), CORNICHE,1962 PORSCHE TWIN GRILLE ROADSTER+
Egwu- This is absolutely wrong! "EVERY car depreciates in value. EVERY car"
Most new cars deprecate in value but they are a few cars that definitely hold their value and actually appreciate once production is discontinued.
Have you checked the prices on Ford GTs they are up $50k over the cost new in 2004 or low milage BMW Z8s they are up $25K or even the Range Rover Defender 90s They are up $5K.
Have you checked the prices on Ford GTs they are up $50k over the cost new in 2004 or low milage BMW Z8s they are up $25K or even the Range Rover Defender 90s They are up $5K.
Last edited by EXECMALIBU; Sep 26, 2012 at 09:26 AM.
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Only MBs - the best or nothing
2. Your original post was "The car listed for $120K". Not exactly what you're saying now - "with all options and tax". No 2003 SL500, regardless of how many options were in it, were anywhere close to $120K. That was sticker of 2003 SL55 (optionless).
3. FYI: 90% of 2003 SL500s had sticker between $92K and $101K. Base MSRP was around $88K.
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From: Asheville, Atlanta
SL 65 AMG, Porsche 911 (993), 2014 Cayenne GTS, 2013 Toyota Highlander Limited
It seems that SL 65 AMG Black series cars with low miles holding value at about $200K.....a $ 100k depreciation.........SLS AMG's can be had for about $ 150,000s with similar low mileage......
SL 65 Black was overpriced at $300K, but with only 175 made it may be the one that holds better than the SLS.....after 5 years.....and could actually be an item to have longer term....may actually appreciate?
SLS the first year sold over 400 in the US and probably similar numbers in 2011, 2012.....
SL 65 Black was overpriced at $300K, but with only 175 made it may be the one that holds better than the SLS.....after 5 years.....and could actually be an item to have longer term....may actually appreciate?
SLS the first year sold over 400 in the US and probably similar numbers in 2011, 2012.....
