karl k

Last year I traded in a 2001 C5 vette w/6 stick, 350 HP, after a couple of months and 3000 miles. The vette is rated 0-60 @ 4.9 seconds, just as the CLK55. I've been reading that MB is conservative in it's official speed ratings; I agree. My CLK55 is doing 4.7 without mods!!...and 10,000 miles without an additional drop of engine oil. Best car I've owned.

1SICKLEX

Wow, sounds like money does not bring some of ya'll an open mind huh?

The SL is a wonderful car, as it should be, it is 20-30k more. The LExus SC 430 is NOT to be confused with a sports car. And looks are subjective. We could say the 115k SL 55 has the same front end as the 25k C-class hatchback, but we won't.

Benz styling for all intents and purposes now looks Japanese in Execution as the interiors, so who is copying who now?

Nighttrain, most Lexus enthusiets do not consider the SC 430 a SC replacement, it is almost a 2nd car.

And we have many members on our board www.CLublexus.com that own Lexus vehicles because they were simply fed up with German reliability issues and dealer mis-management.

Fact of the matter is Benz has lost a lot of it's luster recently with down-market cars and reliability issues in 2002. That and Benz purists find the new cars are built out of cardboard compared to the older models (look at the older SL and new gen ashtrays, door handles, armrest).

I love Benzs, wonderful cars but if you do not understand that Lexus is the best selling luxury car maker along with being the most reliable new and after 5 years of ownership with the highest customer staisfaction rating, well you cheating yourself.

Nightrain, the original SC 300/400, well Lexus wanted a convertible version BADLY, but the structural rigidity was not up to par, so the SC 430 was designed as one PERIOD. And a SC 300 should show up soon, hardtop only, possibly a whole nother car!

1SICKLEX

This is my dirty Lexus! Lexus GS 400

Here is a link to SC 430 pics, enjoy!

http://www.clublexus.com/cgi-bin/pho...rpage=12&user=

W210

Thanks for the link, it's interesting to see on that page most SC430 owners got their stock wheels replaced. Good for them

Too bad the SC430 doesn't have half the performance of the, in my opinion, sportier GS430. If I were to get a Lexus, it would be but the GS430. I pick the SL500 over the SC430 simply because of the SL's superior driving dynamics, active and passive safety.

Both Lexus & MB cars do have their fair share of problems, I have been to the Lexus board and have also read all the minor rattles, noises, problems that Lexus dealers can't fix. I'm a car enthusiast and personally don't mind the minor problems now and then, provided that the dealer can fix them. MB, unlike Volvo, Audi, Jaguar and often BMW is that they are serious about debugging their cars listening to complaints from consumers. Many other manufacturers from my experience simply give me the 'this is normal' line which is unacceptable.

karl k

SC 430 comes in #2, - after SL500, with a better interior, better navigation, better sound system,... and -- for $40,000 less!!

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/compa...6/article.html

karl k

One more very important consideration.

Quality surves consistently rate LEXUS # 1!

...this J.D. Power & Associates survey confirms this,






unfortunately Mercedes-Benz rates #..........10!

Way to go Toyota, go.

http://www.auto.com/industry/iqs18_20010518.htm

hwt1964

MB quality is clearly unacceptable...#10? That sucks. Still...I wouldn't be caught dead in that butt-ugly SC430. Every time I see one on the road I think "Pontiac Aztek".

1SICKLEX

Naw, sorry Chrysler. Actually they are importing 200 SC 430's to the U.K. so they will be pretty rare there.

THe SC 430 is a Grand Tourer, not to be mistaken for a Performance car. The AMG SL55 can be taken by some as a performance car, but both cars do not offer manual transmissions.
I think the SL is a Grand Tourer to the highest degree. Though most of us probably can drive a 450hp beast FASTER and MORE ACCURATE in an auto than a manual.

SL does have that certain "panache" factor that comes with owning it. To many people, it's worth the extra dough.

karl k

That's ERSATZ!

karl k

I've owned 3 - 2001 SL500s last year. All 3 were technical disasters. Never owned a Lexus, but did own a Supra - really super!

However, the CLK55 AMG fits my 6'2" frame like a glove. Best car I've owned, perfect holistic match.

Nighttrain

Hey Sick,

Actually I'm a LONG time member of the clublexus forum.
My name there is Anthracite SC.

I come here for my S430 and for the better forum discussions. =)

In regards to the SC400/430. I agree the 430 is a touring car, and not to be mistaken w/a sports car.

The SL500 is also a touring car, but a more expensive one.
The SL55 is actually a sports CAR. THe thing outruns lamborghini murcielagos, porsche turbos, and ferrari modenas. I think if a car can do that...its steps into the SPORTS category and out of the TOUR category.

If there was an SC430/55 or something that was tuned for SPORT..I'd love to see it.

Until then, I'll be planning for my high HP supercharged OLD SC400
=0 Which will hopefully run w/an SL55

karl k

Why not substite Trabant or Yugo for Ferrari?

What does that have to do with the price of rice in the PRC, anyway? hugh?

If you want to know about QUALITY, study Deming. The Japanese car mfrs. did; they score top honors in ALL quality surveys.

You got to get the bugs out before they bite you.

1SICKLEX

I was being funny
Yeah, I remember you. Cool, glad to see I am not the only one on multiple boards. The SL 55 is a beast, without a doubt but I dunno, no true manual. I wonder who would win in a competative shootout, the 996 tiptronic auto or the SL 55. Seems the SL 55 is faster, just needs tires to handle the power.

Waiting for TOM's to do some engine modifications to the new SC 430 but I am not holding my breath.

I find it hilarious the SC 430 is an "entry-level car". Is it "looking" like a millionaire or "being" a millionaire? I am postive most people purchasing a 65k car can purchase a 90k car. Maybe, they cannot justify paying more for a SL than a SC. Same as people who CAN justify paying 90k for an SL instead of 65k for a SC.

I think Lexus has become the best selling luxury brand in part because it provides a compelling argument to not spend that extra 10-20k for what?

CLK 55 is an awesome machine, I love it. Much better than the new design IMO.

karl k

Yeah, precisely...and the price of rice in the PRC? It fluctuates.

Read Deming, study Deming, practice Deming! Lexus did... and it shows.

karl k

Come to the land of plenty. SLs are blanketing this land. They are becoming obstructionists; just can't get ahead of the SL blockade, parade.

Soon, they'll be driving "loaner upgrades", while warranty works are being performed.

W210

I agree Mark and can assure you the SL is well worth it, especially for those of us who enjoy a car's driving dynamics, performance, cutting edge technology and absolute safety.

Germany cars enthusiasts appreciate their cars' solid chassis, precise handling, active and passive safety, performance, reliability while Japanese car lovers keep on telling the whole world how their cars are of better value, how they never break down, and in Lexus' case, the excellent ML stereo.

I picked the SL500 over the SC430 simply because of the latter's unacceptable driving dynamics, too floaty and ponderous to the point I find it dangerous. Calling a 2 door car a grand tourer does not justify its pathetic handling characteristics.

hwt1964

I still want the Levinson stereo in my SL. And if Lexus can make that car for $70K, MB should be able to make the SL for that too. I think the SL is way overpriced. I bought one anyways...other than the stereo and the reliability, I think the Lexus sucks. Uglier than Rosie O'Donnell.

karl k

hwt1964

I won't buy either one. Wish I could get the ML sound into my CLK AMG.

Agree with your first 3 statements; disagree with the last 2.

Be careful of slander; it might come back to bite you!

Instuh

Figured I would comment..

Last February, I was having problems with my 2000 Jaguar XKR, so I figured I would replace it with a SC430 or Sl500. I drove the SL, didn't love the interior. Nice car, very nice, but the NAV is terrible and I travel by car between my houses, in IL and MA, respectively. I travel all around the east coast, need good NAV. Enter Sc430.. I drove it, loved the NAV- touch screen, its awesome. The seats are great, interior beautiful, ML sound a joy to listen.. But it doesn't look great at all...

I then went into the Lexus Showroom and drove around in a Ls430- I loved it.. I decided I was done with converitbles for a while, and wanted a Luxury Sedan (today I want a Luxury sedan with 4wd)... I drove the S500 too, didnt like that NAV or the interior, compared to the Lexus..

One thing I love about the Lexus, is the in disk 6 CD change with great sound- Plus, you can use your NAV and switch between six 6ds at the same time- I hear with Command II you only can choose one, DVD or a CD, unless you buy something to correct it (correct me if Im wrong).


All in all, I choose the new S Class.. Facelift makes it awesome , DVD Nav is what I need, and I need a 4wd system to keep the miles of my 65,000 (and problem free) Lx470.


The new Sl55 rules all, though.


Drive hard.

jswedberg

I'm sorry, but this thread is just SO strange! Entertaining, though.

A busload of Lexus guys have arrived in the thread to defend their $65K car against a $90K car. A few guys who had a bad experience with the previous model SL chime in.

Mark Norton is comparing "desirable" cars. If all you want is QUALITY (e.g. lack of repairs) then I agree Toyota does a fine job. But there is more to life than that.

A friend was dying to get a Corvette - I told him they were great cars, just bear in mind it will be in the shop a lot. Nothing necessarily wrong with that, just a fact of life.

What is "better"? There is a long thread in the W203 forum about whether an Acura RSX is "better" than a C230 Coupe!

If one was demonstrably "better" (counting price and everything) and everyone agreed, no one would buy the "worser" car.

Personally, I've looked at Lexus LS's (bought an Infiniti Q45), GS's (kept the Q), SC's (bought a 993) RX's (bought an ML), LX's (kept the ML) at various points in my life.

Every time I decided against the Lexus because it was so market-driven. No soul except what market people figured would sell. Nice cars, but bland. People appreciate the nice car but they don't think of you as wild or innovative.

But I also have friends who would never give up their Lexus.
They like the fact that it is quiet, it never breaks (not true - they just conveniently forget afterwards, I think)

and

It was CHEAPER than the BENZ they REALLY wanted!!!



(sorry, couldn't help myself)

jco-amg

I have been watching this thread grow and grow and wondering why????
I have been telling myself..."don't contribute...don't encourage the thread"...but I can't stand it any more....


This is not even a valid question....Car and Driver did a detailed comparison of the SC430 and guess what...???? with the CLK 430 W208 Cab....and rated the even the older CLK the better of the two....I am sorry but the SL...even the 500 is in a whole different league...Please....Give it a rest!!!

pot_head

well, i just got back from the dealership. they have a silver sl500 at msrp. after looking at it i decided not to trade in my black sc430 for it. imo the sl500 isnt worth the extra money. exterior does look a little better than the sc, but the sc is not ugly at all with the help of some better wheels and a lowered suspension. the interior of the sl is just not up to par with the lexus. the sound system sucks in the sl. but the sl does have some funky gadgets like keyless go and bi-xenons and stuff like that. but what the sl lacks in the interior, it makes up for it in the exterior.

in fact, my black sc's gwak factor is greater than the silver sl500, proven at the local car show where both cars were right beside each other.(both with wheels of course). body color is another factor too. (imo black and white are the best colors in the world).

anyways, i passed on the deal, even tho the sl500 was for sale at msrp. i couldve also leased it at a very good rate. 20k down and 1100/month. but whatever.

ibanez

I am sure it does have more gawk factor. Everyone sees it and says "My God!!! What a heinously ugly car. Quick, someone crush it and put it out of its misery (well its actually our misery because we have to look at its ugliness)!"

Come on. Wake up (or should I say stop smoking bong hits). You just can't afford the SL and are making excuses.

I think the SL is a bit overpriced, but I would pay anything not to have to drive the SC (I think I even had a nightmare once where I bought an SC in my dream).

pot_head

ROTFLMAO.......I have 4 cars. Thats more than enough to buy a SL. And why should i stop smoking? Is that even relevant here? I can smoke every hour of every day and not have to worry about money, can you do that??? In fact, can anyone on this board do that??? Im sure there are some super rich CEO's on this board that MAY be able to do that, but how would it look if they're at a board meeting? Not very good. Me? I can do whatever and not have to worry about $$$ or being broke. Beat that.

karl k

To argue MB luxury car pricing, when we are dealing with perceived value vs. actual value is an exercise in futility.

Additionally, global market forces/trends of supply and demand determine value/msrp. For some too high, for some too low.

As simple and complex as that!...a conundrum.