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The top stopped before the end of the up cycle. Forward edge of trunk lid 3-4 inches open. Can not move trunk lid up or down. Fuses ok for top. Believe hydraulic fluid level ok. I have a R129 that has for the most part been trouble free. This car I am always chasing problems.
Probably something leaking. Open the trunk lid with the key and manually close the latches. There are plenty of write-ups about manually closing the 230 top here. Then replace the leaky cylinders and refill it.
Thank you for the response. I tried using the key to unlock the trunk and it will no open. I tried the remote as well for the trunk release and that did not allow me to open the trunk. I know the override is inside the trunk but I can not access the override. I believe it is a sensor or switch that is not in sync. The reservoir was checked and was full a week ago so I do not think it has something to do with the reservoir for the hydraulics. On my R129 I have had the top out of sync with similar problems problems where I had to reschedule the the top. I believe it is a sync issue. Is there a way to resyc it?
I don't. If something were out of sync, the operating sequence would not commence.
I presume the trunk lid does not close all of the way due to insufficient hydraulic pressure within the cylinder for the tubular frame. It's possible that or one of the lock cylinders has an internal leak. I would check those possibilities as follows.
Have the roof closed and the trunk lid open. Use a screwdriver to close the latch on the trunk lid so that the roof controller does not recognize the trunk lid is open. Access the numbered hydraulic lines going to the roof pump and remove lines 30, 32, 33, and 34. Have someone activate the roof closed switch while you watch for fluid coming out of the disconnected lines and valve block. There should be very little or no fluid seen at all. Significant fluid from line 30 indicates a leaky front lock cylinder, 32 a leaky tubular frame cylinder, 33 a leaky left tubular frame lock, and 34 a leaky right tubular frame lock. Significant fluid from any of the exposed ports on the valve block suggest it is faulty.
If you discover a leaky cylinder, send it to Top Hydraulics for a rebuild.
Thank you again. The trunk lid is stuck in the position of not being fully closed. The top will not go up or down. I have tried the remote to open and close the roof. The indicator in the dash indicates the top is in the lowering mode. It does not make a difference if I try to put the top up or down. The trunk is stuck in the non completely closed position. I have tried to open the trunk and it will not open. After trying to open the trunk a couple of times, the indicator light said trunk open, in which I did get the trunk latched again. The reason I think the top is out of sync, when I tried to close the roof the trunk lid stopped in the vertical position, I then pushed the trunk lid forward with little or no resistance to the position it is in now. The lid will not close or open for the top cycle with pushing on the lid down operating the switch in the top up mode or lifting the lid while trying to open the top. When the the switch is activated up or down you do hear a click of a relay and the pump operate or motor sound is heard and stops after 5-10 seconds. The 10 plus minute wait period has been tried. Prior to this the top has operated without issue. Usually if there is a leak in the system, hydraulic fluid leaks into the spare tire well and down through the hole in the bottom of the tire well onto the floor. There is no hydraulic fluid leaking onto the floor. Unfortuneatly with the trunk lid in the the current position, there is no access to the trunk. Looking through the space in the lid I do not see a sensor that might fool the system thinking it is closed. Thank you again any help is appreciated.
To make sure you've exhausted using the key to manually release the trunk latch, try the following. Get some graphite spray and connect the "straw" to the nozzle and spray it into the keyhole. Then turn the key all the way to the left and squeeze the release; then all the way to the right, and squeeze the release, then back all the way to the left and squeeze the release. Do this sequence 10 times to make sure the manual actuation is actually functioning since it cruds up over time due to non use (ie, most only have reason to use the manual lock once every 7-10 years).
Each hydraulic cylinder has two chambers divided by a piston. In the case of the tubular frame to which the trunk lid mounts, if the pump is running one side of the piston always has more pressure than the other. Consequently, if the pump is running, the tubular frame should unconditionally move independent of the state of any switches or a possible "sync" issue.
Since your pump runs with no movement, I would look at the hydraulic cylinders as mentioned before. That said, if your pump only runs for a few seconds, then there may be something else wrong as well; if so, with no Star Diagnosis computer you will be challenged to find it.
If the hydraulics are resisting your efforts to move the tubular frame you can overcome them by opening a valve internal to the hydraulic valve block. Loosen the screw shown in the attachment with a 6mm hex wrench. When finished be sure to tighten the screw or else the roof can not operate.
Last edited by bobterry99; 07-17-2018 at 10:24 AM.
Thank you for all the input. I was able to open the trunk lid open to the vertices position manually, the lid lifts up after a couple of times pulling up on the lid. The oil reservoir is full, all the fuses for the top are ok. The dash shows that it is the opening sequence no matter if you try to open or close the roof. Is there a relay that is not working? My fear is that if I bring it to the dealer they will want to replace lines, cylinders and other components with a $2000 plus bill. I bought the car recently at the Barrett Jackson auction with a clean car fax, Florida car and was clean almost show room condition. The roof operated great until the other day when it did not finish the cycle, just stopped with the trunk lid not coming down. Any input is helpful, now that I can get the trunk lid vertical I can get into the pump, relays and hoses. It might be something as simple as disconnecting the trunk battery and reconnection it. The issue just seems to be a sensor relay issue where the trunk lid is not getting command to close. The top will not open as well. I am starting regret the purchase. I am spoiled by the my 1998 R129 which now has 192,000 mile and runs perfect. I travel for work and will not be able to play with until the weekend. Thank you again for all the help.
when I tried to close the roof the trunk lid stopped in the vertical position, I then pushed the trunk lid forward with little or no resistance to the position it is in now
Refer to page 19, dealing with switch S119. My guess is that is the culprit.
I believe it is highly unlikely that S119 is the problem.
Originally Posted by bobterry99
...if the pump is running, the tubular frame should unconditionally move...
Actually, I believe there is an exception: when the side flaps are being folded in or out the valve block's "main valve" is de-energized; and though the pump runs, none of the roof hydraulic cylinders are pressurized. Mindful of this exception, the roof controller may not be getting the correct status signals from the switches which detect the position of the flaps. See page 20 of the diagnostic aid.
I mentioned checking cylinders for internal leakage in part because it is relatively quick and easy. But first I would check that the flaps are actually folded all the way. It is not uncommon for the drive mechanism to fail and allow the flaps to sag slightly. If the flaps are fine and you have a multimeter to measure resistance, I would check the operation of the switches S126/1 and S127/1.
Last edited by bobterry99; 07-17-2018 at 10:27 AM.
My bet is on failed/leaking cylinders. Here is why I think so. While flap switch will prevent roof operation in one direction (say closing), it will not affect its operation in the opposite direction (opening in this case). This is not what happening - roof is stuck and not going in either direction. Manually closing trunk lid from vertical to almost closed position assumes no pressure/low pressure in the system, otherwise it is not possible. Unless a significant time passed between last roof movement and closing attempt. I hope for the TS sake that I'm wrong.
The top stopped when I was putting the top up with the trunk lid in the vertices position and would not go up or down. The lid manually closed to the pictured position with little resistance. In the lowered position. It still would not go up and down. The lid would not open if I pulled on it. A day later I was finally able to open the lid to have acces to the system. It initially had resistance trying to open the lid. With the lid opened vertically I am able to access the pump, relays and other components. Everyone has given me great input. The wings appear to be in the correct position for putting the top up. I will make sure they are fully up. I will be back home the end of the week and should be able to sort it out with all the input I have received. Thank you everyone for the input. I will let everyone know what I found.
I was traveling for work this week unable workmon the car. Here is where I am at. The wings are fully closed. To listen to the pump I was using the remote which also activates the air pump. When trying to put the top up or down I hear a click of the relay which sounds like it coming from the fuse panel behind the passenger seat. The relay click sound clicks for up or down but nothing happens. Since the hydraulic motor does not run, would the A7/5k1 relay not be working. Does anyone have the test sequence for the relay or do you thick it something else?
I am close to solving the problem. There is a short in wiring or the pump does not work. Tomorrow I will test the pump. i missed the f73 40 amp fuse being blown. Somehow I missed it when I was checking the fuses. With the harness to pump unplugged or the relay removed the fuse does not blow. It blows instantly when I try top up or down. Over the weekend I will track it down.
I was able to unlatch the trunk by unbolting the latch, then I was able lock the tubular frame latches manually. Now the trunk opens with the key. The indicator in the dash tells me the top is in the top down cycle. Operating the top switch blows fuse f73 right away. The windows can be raised but go back to the beginning of the top down mode opening a quarter of an inch. I checked s126/1 and s127/1 for the wings they show that they are closed. At this point I am stumped. At least the trunk can be opened for better access. Maybe the hydraulic pump is bad, but I do not think it whould just quit and short out. Is it time to go to the dealer or does anyone have any suggestions?
The electric motor can fry and short out in the pump, sure. If it's blowing the fuse immediately, it should be easy to find out why with a little troubleshooting. Benz will start with replacing the pump, so if you are gonna take it there, you can do that yourself first and see.
The electric motor can fry and short out in the pump, sure. If it's blowing the fuse immediately, it should be easy to find out why with a little troubleshooting. Benz will start with replacing the pump, so if you are gonna take it there, you can do that yourself first and see.
Seems like very expensive ohm-meter to me. I would start by measuring motor winding resistance. While it is most likely that motor is shorted, there is still a small chance that short is in the wiring harness. Another way would be to disconnect the pump from the harness and try to operate the roof. If fuse blows - short is in the harness, if it does not - short is in the pump.
Thank you. The pump must be problem. With the pump unplugged the fuse does not blow. I would not think the motor would suddenly short out, but that must be the problem. I will replace the pump. How do I rersyc the top. It shows that the top is in a top lowering cycle and the trunk can only be opened with a key. Will replacing the pump automatically sync the system?
Unlike an R129, essentially it is impossible to get the roof of an R230 ot of sync. But you do need to have all three latches confirmed to the controller as being closed.
I have a pump assembly with a good motor and faulty valve block. I am interested in either selling you my pump and motor or purchasing your valve block. PM me if interested in a deal.
Thank you. The pump must be problem. With the pump unplugged the fuse does not blow. I would not think the motor would suddenly short out, but that must be the problem. I will replace the pump. How do I rersyc the top. It shows that the top is in a top lowering cycle and the trunk can only be opened with a key. Will replacing the pump automatically sync the system?
Were you able to get a solution, just had the same thing happened to my 2005.
Were you able to get a solution, just had the same thing happened to my 2005.
A maintenance strategy which involves replicating fixes that others have found in lieu of troubleshooting one's own problem seems very expensive to me. Hopefully you have followed some of the suggestions offered on this thread and are not simply looking for a shortcut.
07-15-2018, 05:55 PM
