SL/R230: Rear Raises when Parked
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From: Atlanta, unfortunately
'09 S600, (2) R129 300SLs, '03 SL500, '03 SL55
Peter, you either haven't understood the logical progression of these troubleshooting efforts, or you disagree with my conclusions to this point. Since I may be overlooking something obvious, I want to know if it is the latter case.
Isn't it obvious to you that the valve block is in fact clean? When power is removed from the ABC controller, the suspension does not rise or fall. Therefore, the valve block is functioning properly and is sealing-off each strut from the rest of the hydraulic system. If you disagree, then explain why so that I may correct my thought process.
Also, In your other post you took a section from Darren Bruxvoort's excellent ABC trouleshooting guide. When you copy someone's work, as a courtesy I think you ought to site your source.
Isn't it obvious to you that the valve block is in fact clean? When power is removed from the ABC controller, the suspension does not rise or fall. Therefore, the valve block is functioning properly and is sealing-off each strut from the rest of the hydraulic system. If you disagree, then explain why so that I may correct my thought process.
Also, In your other post you took a section from Darren Bruxvoort's excellent ABC trouleshooting guide. When you copy someone's work, as a courtesy I think you ought to site your source.
Last edited by bobterry99; Jun 12, 2020 at 06:21 PM.
Peter, you either haven't understood the logical progression of these troubleshooting efforts, or you disagree with my conclusions to this point. Since I may be overlooking something obvious, I want to know if it is the latter case.
Isn't it obvious to you that the valve block is in fact clean? When power is removed from the ABC controller, the suspension does not rise or fall. Therefore, the valve block is functioning properly and is sealing-off each strut from the rest of the hydraulic system. If you disagree, then explain why so that I may correct my thought process.
Also, In your other post you took a section from Darren Bruxvoort's excellent ABC trouleshooting guide. When you copy someone's work, as a courtesy I think you ought to site your source.
Isn't it obvious to you that the valve block is in fact clean? When power is removed from the ABC controller, the suspension does not rise or fall. Therefore, the valve block is functioning properly and is sealing-off each strut from the rest of the hydraulic system. If you disagree, then explain why so that I may correct my thought process.
Also, In your other post you took a section from Darren Bruxvoort's excellent ABC trouleshooting guide. When you copy someone's work, as a courtesy I think you ought to site your source.
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From: Atlanta, unfortunately
'09 S600, (2) R129 300SLs, '03 SL500, '03 SL55
Three reasons, @places: (1) the OP has invested perhaps $300 in his own Star Diagnosis System (SDS) to avoid trips to the dealer, and his system has capability the dealer's SDS lacks, (Exhibit A: The video he posted displaying the valve currents), (2) a dealer tech is participating in this thread (ItalianJoe1), (3) savvy Merc owners know that it is better to take an older car to a reputable independent shop than to the dealer. And I'll never forget a few years ago when a dealer replaced a perfectly-working ABC pump on a member's car at a cost to him of c. $2400. (The dealer did not admit their mistake.)
Nishboo, you've established that the valve blocks are working perfectly. With the possible exception of the rear raising when the engine shuts off, the ABC controller is working perfectly.
In your video it shows negative currents flowing through the control valves; and while that should cause the rear to lower, it in fact rises. I think it would be useful to measure the current with a meter to learn the actual direction of the current to resolve this contradiction. But I suppose that would involve accessing the electrical connector to the rear valve block, and that is un-fun. With the cost of an ABC controller from eBay running under $50, that may be your best choice forward. If a replacement brings no joy, you could always put it back to ebay at a small loss.
Nishboo, you've established that the valve blocks are working perfectly. With the possible exception of the rear raising when the engine shuts off, the ABC controller is working perfectly.
In your video it shows negative currents flowing through the control valves; and while that should cause the rear to lower, it in fact rises. I think it would be useful to measure the current with a meter to learn the actual direction of the current to resolve this contradiction. But I suppose that would involve accessing the electrical connector to the rear valve block, and that is un-fun. With the cost of an ABC controller from eBay running under $50, that may be your best choice forward. If a replacement brings no joy, you could always put it back to ebay at a small loss.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 348
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From: Florida
W124, W126, W140, W220, W222, R129
Three reasons, @places: (1) the OP has invested perhaps $300 in his own Star Diagnosis System (SDS) to avoid trips to the dealer, and his system has capability the dealer's SDS lacks, (Exhibit A: The video he posted displaying the valve currents), (2) a dealer tech is participating in this thread (ItalianJoe1), (3) savvy Merc owners know that it is better to take an older car to a reputable independent shop than to the dealer. And I'll never forget a few years ago when a dealer replaced a perfectly-working ABC pump on a member's car at a cost to him of c. $2400. (The dealer did not admit their mistake.)
Nishboo, you've established that the valve blocks are working perfectly. With the possible exception of the rear raising when the engine shuts off, the ABC controller is working perfectly.
In your video it shows negative currents flowing through the control valves; and while that should cause the rear to lower, it in fact rises. I think it would be useful to measure the current with a meter to learn the actual direction of the current to resolve this contradiction. But I suppose that would involve accessing the electrical connector to the rear valve block, and that is un-fun. With the cost of an ABC controller from eBay running under $50, that may be your best choice forward. If a replacement brings no joy, you could always put it back to ebay at a small loss.
Nishboo, you've established that the valve blocks are working perfectly. With the possible exception of the rear raising when the engine shuts off, the ABC controller is working perfectly.
In your video it shows negative currents flowing through the control valves; and while that should cause the rear to lower, it in fact rises. I think it would be useful to measure the current with a meter to learn the actual direction of the current to resolve this contradiction. But I suppose that would involve accessing the electrical connector to the rear valve block, and that is un-fun. With the cost of an ABC controller from eBay running under $50, that may be your best choice forward. If a replacement brings no joy, you could always put it back to ebay at a small loss.
All those that aren't willing to help, I respectfully ask you don't pick a fight with those who do. I am not here to create drama, rather learn, and fix my car in the process.
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From: Atlanta, unfortunately
'09 S600, (2) R129 300SLs, '03 SL500, '03 SL55
When you are ready to install the replacement ABC controller you can avoid having to perform a level calibration, strut calibration, and load adjustment by copying the settings from your existing unit. To do that, when you are ready to swap the units go to the main ABC controller screen in DAS and choose:
.
I think the chances of success are better than even, nishboo. If this doesn't work, there is still some further troubleshooting to do before giving up.
.
.
Initial startup > Initial startup with automatic takeover of settings of previous control unit. Follow the simple instructions that follow.
.I think the chances of success are better than even, nishboo. If this doesn't work, there is still some further troubleshooting to do before giving up.
.
Thread Starter
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From: Florida
W124, W126, W140, W220, W222, R129
If that doesn't work, I will copy the data as described above.
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From: Miami, FL
2003 CL 600
Well you aren't teaching just the level, but the offset values of the sensor. So the specific value that your car had at 'level' isn't necessarily the same as the other car you got an ABC module from.
In my experience when you teach in the level calibration it needs to be done with an inclinometer (digital angle gauge) to measure suspension angles and the vehicle must be on a known level surface (We used the alignment racks as they were calibrated flat and you can access underneath easily.
I am curious to see what happens as your diag so far has been solid, I would expect this to fix it.
As far as checking actual amperage vs. commanded, you could do that at the harness for the ABC module I believe, the wiring should be straight from there to the valve block solenoids.
In my experience when you teach in the level calibration it needs to be done with an inclinometer (digital angle gauge) to measure suspension angles and the vehicle must be on a known level surface (We used the alignment racks as they were calibrated flat and you can access underneath easily.
I am curious to see what happens as your diag so far has been solid, I would expect this to fix it.
As far as checking actual amperage vs. commanded, you could do that at the harness for the ABC module I believe, the wiring should be straight from there to the valve block solenoids.
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From: Atlanta, unfortunately
'09 S600, (2) R129 300SLs, '03 SL500, '03 SL55
I do no know how to level a car to factory specification using Star Diagnosis without having an angle gauge. But for a DIYer setting level to their personal taste, I believe a seat-of-the-pants approach is fine. There can be an element of trial and error, though, since as you know the angle you "measured" must be entered manually, and it must satisfy an unknown algorithm.
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From: Florida
W124, W126, W140, W220, W222, R129
Ok, here is the update.
I ordered a good working part, and received it today. I put the unit in the car.
Upon startup, I got a RED ABC light, indicating drive carefully. I put the car in gear, and moved the car forward, the car came up to what I believe was standard height (higher than the adjusted height of the original module). I shut the car off, and then turned it back on. The RED ABC light went away and things were functioning as they are supposed to.
At this point, I connected the car to STAR/SDS and cleared out the code. The only code for ABC was a low voltage STORED code, but not CURRENT. It cleared, went away, and I scanned the car a few more times after a quick drive and turning on and off. No codes - just as before, all appears like the previous original module behaved.
I did NOT do a takeover of previous settings, I wanted to see what happens with this module when I parked the car. As soon as I shut the car off, it raises in the rear still. I have yet to crack the mystery on what is telling the car to raise the rear, or what is making the rear raise after it is shut off, rather.
I am truly stumped. Not showing any issues on STAR/SDS but same results with 2 modules. For note, they are both Q10 modules.
I ordered a good working part, and received it today. I put the unit in the car.
Upon startup, I got a RED ABC light, indicating drive carefully. I put the car in gear, and moved the car forward, the car came up to what I believe was standard height (higher than the adjusted height of the original module). I shut the car off, and then turned it back on. The RED ABC light went away and things were functioning as they are supposed to.
At this point, I connected the car to STAR/SDS and cleared out the code. The only code for ABC was a low voltage STORED code, but not CURRENT. It cleared, went away, and I scanned the car a few more times after a quick drive and turning on and off. No codes - just as before, all appears like the previous original module behaved.
I did NOT do a takeover of previous settings, I wanted to see what happens with this module when I parked the car. As soon as I shut the car off, it raises in the rear still. I have yet to crack the mystery on what is telling the car to raise the rear, or what is making the rear raise after it is shut off, rather.
I am truly stumped. Not showing any issues on STAR/SDS but same results with 2 modules. For note, they are both Q10 modules.
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2005 SL65 AMG
Crazy idea:
1) Swap all four plugs for control valves and lock valves at the rear valve block to their opposite sides (left side control valve plug connected to right side control valve, left side lock valve plug connected to right side lock valve, etc)
1) Start engine, leave in park
2) Lower rear drivers side corner with SDS to normal height (but activating rear right valves in DAS since the plugs are switched)
3) Disconnect SDS from car
4) shut off engine, observe behavior
5) repeat test but with connectors put back correctly
Idea is to determine if the valve itself has a mechanical failure or if the controller truly is activating the valve.
edit, I thought it was only raising on one side in the rear. Reading your original post again, it sounds like maybe both rear sides are raising? Then this test is probably a waste of time.
1) Swap all four plugs for control valves and lock valves at the rear valve block to their opposite sides (left side control valve plug connected to right side control valve, left side lock valve plug connected to right side lock valve, etc)
1) Start engine, leave in park
2) Lower rear drivers side corner with SDS to normal height (but activating rear right valves in DAS since the plugs are switched)
3) Disconnect SDS from car
4) shut off engine, observe behavior
5) repeat test but with connectors put back correctly
Idea is to determine if the valve itself has a mechanical failure or if the controller truly is activating the valve.
edit, I thought it was only raising on one side in the rear. Reading your original post again, it sounds like maybe both rear sides are raising? Then this test is probably a waste of time.
Last edited by sivikvtec; Jun 17, 2020 at 06:14 PM.
Thread Starter
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From: Florida
W124, W126, W140, W220, W222, R129
I am down to try anything at this point, but sadly, i believe you may be right. It probably doesn't prove anything as the whole rear raises.
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From: Florida
W124, W126, W140, W220, W222, R129
Banned
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From: Atlanta, unfortunately
'09 S600, (2) R129 300SLs, '03 SL500, '03 SL55
You can view the level by proceeding to the following sub-menu of the ABC controller: Actual values > Vehicle level. Presumably the vehicle is level, and so I believe the values shown are relative to the calibrated level and represent adjustments ABC made to achieve level.
I can't reconcile the contradictions between the observations of the vehicle rising or not rising when the engine is switched off with both the valve currents shown in DAS and also the Mercedes' description of the ABC level control function. Two changes which would allow everything to make sense are: (1) nishboo is mistaken, and the rear rises when the engine is switched off with the ABC controller fuse removed and also rises when performing a level calibration, or (2) contrary to Mercedes, with the engine switched off ABC can raise the vehicle and the negative current seen in DAS is actually a positive current.
I can't reconcile the contradictions between the observations of the vehicle rising or not rising when the engine is switched off with both the valve currents shown in DAS and also the Mercedes' description of the ABC level control function. Two changes which would allow everything to make sense are: (1) nishboo is mistaken, and the rear rises when the engine is switched off with the ABC controller fuse removed and also rises when performing a level calibration, or (2) contrary to Mercedes, with the engine switched off ABC can raise the vehicle and the negative current seen in DAS is actually a positive current.
Thread Starter
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From: Florida
W124, W126, W140, W220, W222, R129
I am going to put the car on setting 1 and 2 and set both of those today, as the default may say go to setting 1 on height adjustment instead of setting 0 (which is where I had done the level calibration previously). Lets see if this may help.
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From: Atlanta, unfortunately
'09 S600, (2) R129 300SLs, '03 SL500, '03 SL55
I think the level calibration sets the base level regardless of whether or not the vehicle was raised via the control switch. Maybe you can confirm this, nishboo. Otherwise it would be really, really easy to lower a car by simply performing a calibration and first raise the vehicle.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 348
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From: Florida
W124, W126, W140, W220, W222, R129
I think the level calibration sets the base level regardless of whether or not the vehicle was raised via the control switch. Maybe you can confirm this, nishboo. Otherwise it would be really, really easy to lower a car by simply performing a calibration and first raise the vehicle.
I did re-calibrate today, and spent some time with my SDS and the car. Got everything I wanted done. Car still raises in the rear when turned off.
Unfortunately, ran into an issue when I pulled the car out of my garage... My radiator gave out. Fluid everywhere. Ordered a new radiator and sent it on a tow truck to my warehouse, where I would have help and tools to install a new radiator.
I am still stumped on the ABC but wont be able to do any testing until I get around to replacing the radiator. Hopefully next week.
Still open to ideas about the ABC issue.
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From: Atlanta, unfortunately
'09 S600, (2) R129 300SLs, '03 SL500, '03 SL55
Thread Starter
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From: Florida
W124, W126, W140, W220, W222, R129
Ok so heres an idea:
Based on the fact that pulling the fuse doesn't cause the vehicle to raise, however it does raise after ignition goes off when the fuse is in, why don't I just pull the power for the control unit from an ignition/switchable source, so when power cuts, the module can't send a signal? I thought about this for a while and I can't see an issue.
Any thoughts?
Based on the fact that pulling the fuse doesn't cause the vehicle to raise, however it does raise after ignition goes off when the fuse is in, why don't I just pull the power for the control unit from an ignition/switchable source, so when power cuts, the module can't send a signal? I thought about this for a while and I can't see an issue.
Any thoughts?
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From: Atlanta, unfortunately
'09 S600, (2) R129 300SLs, '03 SL500, '03 SL55
I think your idea of powering the ABC controller from an ignition-switched source should accomplish what you want. There are two ways I can think of to do this.
If you have good access to the wiring connectors at the ABC controller I would wire-in a field-effect transistor (FET) and use it as a switch for the power to the module. An input that switches on with the ignition would be used to control the FET. That input circuit itself would not be suitable to supply the ABC controller with power since it is a 5-amp circuit and the controller is a 15 amp.
Another way is to move the ABC controller feed at the fuse box over to a switched circuit. To accomplish this you likely would have to cut the wire to the controller and splice it in with the switched circuit. To prevent the fuse of that switched circuit from blowing you likely would have to increase its current rating. Technically this likely is wrong, since the wiring to your two switched circuits are probably each too small for the fuse. But provided your two circuits never have a catastrophic failure you will be fine. Though for technical reasons I would choose the first solution offered above.
If you like I'll detail how to wire the FET, or if you choose the other option, I'll suggest a switched circuit to splice into for the ABC controller feed.
If you have good access to the wiring connectors at the ABC controller I would wire-in a field-effect transistor (FET) and use it as a switch for the power to the module. An input that switches on with the ignition would be used to control the FET. That input circuit itself would not be suitable to supply the ABC controller with power since it is a 5-amp circuit and the controller is a 15 amp.
Another way is to move the ABC controller feed at the fuse box over to a switched circuit. To accomplish this you likely would have to cut the wire to the controller and splice it in with the switched circuit. To prevent the fuse of that switched circuit from blowing you likely would have to increase its current rating. Technically this likely is wrong, since the wiring to your two switched circuits are probably each too small for the fuse. But provided your two circuits never have a catastrophic failure you will be fine. Though for technical reasons I would choose the first solution offered above.
If you like I'll detail how to wire the FET, or if you choose the other option, I'll suggest a switched circuit to splice into for the ABC controller feed.
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From: Florida
W124, W126, W140, W220, W222, R129
Are you able to share more information about wiring in the FET. I do have some access to the controller and its harness. I want to know how involved this would be before turning it down.
