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Brucewane, I see you mentioned the toughness of separating the lower joint for the front shocks......not that tough if you follow the physics..!
What you do is, first twist the nut about 3 turns back, then place some fiberglass insulation around the inside of the joint between the arm and the lower eye so you don't burn the rubber booth..
Keep closer a 8 to 12" long blunt piece of aluminum, or brass and a 2 lb hammer
Then get a propane torch and heat the arm around the joint for about 3 minutes..! The aluminum expands to a higher rate than the steel bolt!
After that you smack the end of the joint bolt by hammering over the brass or aluminum bar ....it should come out easier....!
My two cents for the next job!
I did use a propane torch to heat the arm, and tried smacking directly on the bolt - no luck. I finally busted them loose with a typical tie rod end/ball joint separator and a 4lb sledge hammer, but it took a solid 20 or 30 minutes of whacking. I think the biggest issue is that you can only really attack that ball joint from straight below because of the shape of the control arm; if you're working on a garage floor with a car on jack stands, you don't have a whole lot of room to really swing a hammer. It's hard enough to swing a hammer straight up with good force anyway, but then add in that you've only got maybe 18" to swing and it's a recipe for sweat and frustration..... this job would certainly be easier with the car on a lift!
Originally Posted by Aussiesuede
There is also a more than adequate tool for the job that will separate even the most stubborn lower bolt links. It's called a bearing separator puller. Costs about $40 and it slips a clamp between the lower control arm and the lower strut connection point and pushes on the connecting through bolt at the same time as it's pushing on the lower strut connection point. It'll release the lower strut in about 3 cranks of a ratchet, or about 10 seconds. Bearing Separator Puller
Will that actually work on an R230 though? The strut's lower ball joint sits inside a U-shaped bend in the control arm, there's really not much clearance to use anything other than a typical "pickle fork" style joint separator. I considered using other types of separator tools that use a tightened bolt to force the joint apart, but with the shape of the control arm I couldn't see where any of them would be usable.
It could be that mine were just unusually difficult. They did appear to be original, so they'd been there for 18 years/70K miles. No visible corrosion to speak of, the car is very clean underneath. By the CarFax report it has spent most of it's life in the southern US, so no apparent exposure to road salt. I think it spent a short time in Virginia, but from the looks of it I'd say it was likely garaged for winters there.
I thought I had a bad strut so I pulled the front strut about 5 yrs ago. Even though the arm is AL it was pretty tough to remove the ball joint. I ended up using a ball joint separator tool, PB blaster and a fine propane torch. It still took quite a bit to release the fitting. When I was done I oscillated the joint. It wasn't bad but there was slightly sticky spots in the motion. The car is lowered quite a bit with 20" wheels&tires and the offset is higher than factory so when I replace the struts it will get new ball joints this time around.
I did use a propane torch to heat the arm, and tried smacking directly on the bolt - no luck. I finally busted them loose with a typical tie rod end/ball joint separator and a 4lb sledge hammer, but it took a solid 20 or 30 minutes of whacking. I think the biggest issue is that you can only really attack that ball joint from straight below because of the shape of the control arm; if you're working on a garage floor with a car on jack stands, you don't have a whole lot of room to really swing a hammer. It's hard enough to swing a hammer straight up with good force anyway, but then add in that you've only got maybe 18" to swing and it's a recipe for sweat and frustration..... this job would certainly be easier with the car on a lift!
Will that actually work on an R230 though? The strut's lower ball joint sits inside a U-shaped bend in the control arm, there's really not much clearance to use anything other than a typical "pickle fork" style joint separator. I considered using other types of separator tools that use a tightened bolt to force the joint apart, but with the shape of the control arm I couldn't see where any of them would be usable.
It could be that mine were just unusually difficult. They did appear to be original, so they'd been there for 18 years/70K miles. No visible corrosion to speak of, the car is very clean underneath. By the CarFax report it has spent most of it's life in the southern US, so no apparent exposure to road salt. I think it spent a short time in Virginia, but from the looks of it I'd say it was likely garaged for winters there.
Yes there is space for the tool.Click on the link I posted for the tool and navigate to picture #3 and it'll become instantly clear how the tool attaches. The 2 half cups fit between the rear face of the control arm and the front face of the strut around the throughbolt and clamps together. Uses about 5mm of space. Those 2 half pieces are attached to the bar which the expansion bolt screws into so what happens when you crank the ratchet is the expansion bolt presses against the throughbolt from the strut whilst at the same time applying force on the 2 half cups between the control arm and the strut. So you have basically double the force of a typical tie rod removal tool. It's an ingeniously designed tool.
1. After disconnecting the tie rod, it can be tilted upwards at about a 40 degree angle. I linked together 2 rubber bands to secure the tie rod in that position but a zip tie would work equally well. This gives the tool a straight shot at the bolt on the lower strut. The "cups" on the tool are split down the middle. You place one half of the cup between the rear face of the control arm and the lower strut face that has the bolt protruding out and through the control arm, and then attach the other half of the cup on the opposite side and then tighten 2 bolts to bring the two half's together.
2. Then you screw the "expansion" bolt front the front of the car towards the rear until it contacts the bolt from the lower strut that comes through the control arm. That expansion bolt protrudes out about 5 inches. The optimal way to attach a 19mm socket to the expansion bolt is with 2 "wobble" extensions. One 4 iinch extension attached to one 6 inch extension attached to the 19 mm socket. This clears you about 1 inch ahead of the radiator with plenty of room to turn the socket.
My strut was original and had been attached for 18 years and about 270,000 miles and prior efforts with heat and a sledge hammer were not even resulting in the slightest budging. With this tool it took about 3 turns of the ratchet and popped loose in about 10 seconds. Same was true when using the tool on the passenger side which has been previously untouched.
Had I been aware of the existence of the tool prior to starting the job I'd have purchased it immediately. I spent about 15 minutes disconnecting everything from the front stutt then about 5 hours trying to pry and hammer out the lower strut bolt (with 2 trips to the parts & hardware store to try to fashion a tool I thought had a chance of working) but to no avail. With this tool I was able to reduce the entire front strut replacement process to 20 minutes on each side. 4 nuts and a tie rod, that's all that holding the stutr to the car. Hit the hydraulic quick release with pb blaster the night before and grab it with a set of channel locks the day of, and removing even the most stubborn struts with this tool is a breeze.
Last edited by Aussiesuede; 05-15-2023 at 05:12 PM.
Brilliant. I like learning about these new tools. I have to do my LCA bushes so for $40.00 I think I'll just order it. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it...
The two aluminium halves are threaded all the way through, so to get the expansion bolt on to the strut bolt you would have to attach the two hexagonal studs from the other side of the two halves, opposite to how it's shown here:
Brilliant. I like learning about these new tools. I have to do my LCA bushes so for $40.00 I think I'll just order it. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it...
The two aluminium halves are threaded all the way through, so to get the expansion bolt on to the strut bolt you would have to attach the two hexagonal studs from the other side of the two halves, opposite to how it's shown here:
Yes. The bolts can be threaded from either side of the "cup" and the kit linked comes with 3 pairs of those hex bolts of differing lengths. Attached are pics of the tool at each stage of assembly
Guys, that is indeed a good tool for the job,.....but if when you are at it without careful planning, you'll use what is on hand first! I actually have a Mamooth tool like that one, but the darn tie rod bar is in the way!
Another system that could be used is a good steel plate 2" wide clamped to one side of the arm and the other end moved towards the arm with another clamp!
And a good heating will help with that too!
Surely there are lots of different ways to complicate a job needlessly.
Sometimes it's just best to buy the right tool and for 40 bucks, what's the diff. There's a great range of specialist tools in red plastic cases now, like this one - but I'll reserve judgement until I've actually tried it. As mentioned, it's an ingenious design, where the tool applies force equally on both the joint and the bolt.
Fellas, before I proceed with converting SL later (this year) I'd like to know your opinion regarding how it will affect the value of the car. I checked many (if not all) BaT listings where they had SL R230 and iirc non of them had coilovers. So I wonder if swapping ABC with let's say Silver coilovers and adding front and rear struts how it may affect the car? Do you think potential buyers would roast me if I list in on any of these popular online auctions?
Sergey the coilovers replace all 4 struts and the entire ABC system is pulled and you add F&R sway bars for cornering load
As far as value for a coilover conversion goes against a car that has 20+ yr old suspension; any car with a rebuilt suspension usually stacks up as well $$.
The downside might be potential buyers who purchase used MB not wanting to step outside the box and want all original.
I currently have two R230s, a dead stock 2004 SL600 with a properly operating ABC stock suspension and a 2006 SL500 that has had the ABC system replaced with BC Racing coilovers on all 4 corners. While the ride of the SL600 is absolutely superior to the SL500 under all driving conditions, I am too nervous to take the SL600 on any kind of seriously long trip due to the real potential of a crippling ABC suspension problem while far from home; I have no such fears on my daily driver SL500. I bought my SL500 with the coilovers already installed on it by the previous owner in the Reno, Nevada area. He also lowered the SL500 from the stock ride height by about half an inch in the front and by about 3/4 inch in the rear. With that slightly lower ride height, for normal driving, the car still corners well and I really don't feel a great need to install front or rear anti-sway bars, although the BC Racing shock settings are fairly aggressive. I have been watching California and Nevada R230 sales for several years and auction sites (bat.com and carsandbids.com) and have only found two SLs (including the one that I bought) with a coilover conversion for the ABC system. As a guess, I would say that a coilover conversion probably reduces the value of an R230 by about $5000 or so for a regular SL, but the value hit would likely be substantial for a specialty model with turbos or superchargers or something like an SL600. My accomplished indy mechanic with 35 plus Mercedes years of wrenching experience told me he would only replace failed ABC system components with Mercedes ABC parts and not make the coilover conversions for anyone.
Sergey the coilovers replace all 4 struts and the entire ABC system is pulled and you add F&R sway bars for cornering load
As far as value for a coilover conversion goes against a car that has 20+ yr old suspension; any car with a rebuilt suspension usually stacks up as well $$.
The downside might be potential buyers who purchase used MB not wanting to step outside the box and want all original.
Thank you. I guess lots of folks who want to negotiate the price later (when it's time to sell my car) may use it as a leverage. We'll see...
I currently have two R230s, a dead stock 2004 SL600 with a properly operating ABC stock suspension and a 2006 SL500 that has had the ABC system replaced with BC Racing coilovers on all 4 corners. While the ride of the SL600 is absolutely superior to the SL500 under all driving conditions, I am too nervous to take the SL600 on any kind of seriously long trip due to the real potential of a crippling ABC suspension problem while far from home; I have no such fears on my daily driver SL500. I bought my SL500 with the coilovers already installed on it by the previous owner in the Reno, Nevada area. He also lowered the SL500 from the stock ride height by about half an inch in the front and by about 3/4 inch in the rear. With that slightly lower ride height, for normal driving, the car still corners well and I really don't feel a great need to install front or rear anti-sway bars, although the BC Racing shock settings are fairly aggressive. I have been watching California and Nevada R230 sales for several years and auction sites (bat.com and carsandbids.com) and have only found two SLs (including the one that I bought) with a coilover conversion for the ABC system. As a guess, I would say that a coilover conversion probably reduces the value of an R230 by about $5000 or so for a regular SL, but the value hit would likely be substantial for a specialty model with turbos or superchargers or something like an SL600. My accomplished indy mechanic with 35 plus Mercedes years of wrenching experience told me he would only replace failed ABC system components with Mercedes ABC parts and not make the coilover conversions for anyone.
Thank you. Exactly my thoughts - even good and maintained ABC still doesn't give you a peace of mind and you don't want to risk it taking far away from home... I guess all brand-name mechanics say the same. Meanwhile I was at Daytona yesterday and of course all racing cars have coilovers (actually they have pretty complex and expensive setups). But again racing != comfort. I think I will proceed with it. First I need to convert my CLS...
In reality, done correctly with premium parts Coilover conversions can actually add value to AMG models. Most AMG 230's are now in need of suspension bushing, ball joint replacement as well as degrading & aged strut mount isolators. When a full refresh is done a cars performance levels can be enhanced. The only downside is the loss of the Cadillac or geriatric mode.
In reality, done correctly with premium parts Coilover conversions can actually add value to AMG models. Most AMG 230's are now in need of suspension bushing, ball joint replacement as well as degrading & aged strut mount isolators. When a full refresh is done a cars performance levels can be enhanced. The only downside is the loss of the Cadillac or geriatric mode.
Thank you. I agree that lots of stuff is degrading on these cars. Some of them are already 20 year old cars, others are quickly approaching this age.
I have two many (for me) simultaneous projects, but I'll get to it after I'm done with my W140 and CLS55...
Thank you. I agree that lots of stuff is degrading on these cars. Some of them are already 20 year old cars, others are quickly approaching this age.
I have two many (for me) simultaneous projects, but I'll get to it after I'm done with my W140 and CLS55...
Airmatic systems like the W140 are aging poorly but a piece of cake compared to R230 ABC hydraulic systems.
From a mechanic's point of view it would be much simpler, more reliable and 1/4 of the cost to just go Coils and struts but you'd lose the fancy Airmatic cush.
Whichever way you go there are plusses and minuses
Airmatic systems like the W140 are aging poorly but a piece of cake compared to R230 ABC hydraulic systems.
From a mechanic's point of view it would be much simpler, more reliable and 1/4 of the cost to just go Coils and struts but you'd lose the fancy Airmatic cush.
Whichever way you go there are plusses and minuses
Good Luck Sergey
Thank you. Yeah, I agree it costs less than ABC. PS: W140 has ADS which is also hydraulic. And my W140 S600 has a tandem pump like R230 SL600/SL65.... W140 needs other stuff but I'd like to convert its ADS suspension to coilovers to make it less complex in the long run. My CSL55 has Airmatic. I'd like to start with converting CLS first and then when both W140 is fixed and CLS is converted I'll proceed with SL. I don't want to have multiple ongoing projects at the same time...
I’ve done motor swaps, auto to manual modifications and all kinds of suspension modifications but R230 coilover complications is making this a PITA.
I still need to recalibrate the ECU to remove the ABC errors but it will be worth it eventually.
I’ve done motor swaps, auto to manual modifications and all kinds of suspension modifications but R230 coilover complications is making this a PITA.
I still need to recalibrate the ECU to remove the ABC errors but it will be worth it eventually.
Thank you. I've seen a vide where removing ABC related errors is done within 5 mins using STAR. IIRC you need to go to Main Groups (it's main menu) -> Control Units -> Information and Communication -> ICM -> Control unit adaptations -> Special Equipment -> ABC -> change the value to NOT PRESENT.
You need STAR with developer mode to code out the ABC. Standard STAR won't do it.
Even the version of STAR issued to dealers here doesn't have developer mode.
BenzNinja can do it, he did mine.
As for car value. After reading all about ABC I was overjoyed to find a car with the struts already installed. And when I look for newer models to purchase it relieves me if I can avoid buying a car with ABC and having to convert to struts So yes it adds value
You need STAR with developer mode to code out the ABC. Standard STAR won't do it.
Even the version of STAR issued to dealers here doesn't have developer mode.
I was fortunate enough to get a German mainframe Star privately owned by a tech. Took me awhile to access the programming in German but it has developer access
Harry that is why support BenzNinja . He is always there and saves us Thousands of Dollars.in correct diagnosis and programming. I honestly would consider selling the car to avoid being subjected to ripoff artist and Throw Parts at it Mechanics. Knowing where the problem exists and how to offer an intelligent Indy.some diagnosis is a serious advantage for the non mechanic owner owning an Sl500.
I honestly would consider selling the car to avoid being subjected to ripoff artist and Throw Parts at it Mechanics. Knowing where the problem exists and how to offer an intelligent Indy.some diagnosis is a serious advantage for the non mechanic owner owning an Sl500.
I know what you mean first hand.
Problem being the SDS doesn't help at all here. Mercedes techs (let alone private Indy's who rarely work on hydraulics at all) aren't proficient at ABC hydraulics . The OG ( highway robbery ) method is still used. by MB and all shops. Replace everything if the problem is not obvious.
Proper repairs need old fashioned mechanic skills using the scientific method of research to diagnose the problems and it's repairs. Not SDS or even electronics. After you chase down the problem using brains, hands and eyes; fix it, then you can verify the results with SDS but throwing parts at an old car will without serious mechanical skills only empty your pockets and drive you mad
The problem with ABC hydraulics system is electronics only nanny high pressure hydraulics issues. Sure, you can detect a height switch or a control valve issue but it won't explain why. You're only detecting a electrical change noted by the cars ECU/SDS. It all boils down to a hydraulic failure.
At some point the system is just too old to part and piece it together and you either scrap the suspension or put more money than the car itself costs merely in suspension. The worst thing is this will happen to all R230's even a car with 12,000 mi. Hydraulics only last so long.
I ran a complete SDS diagnostic on the car; set the height values, ran tests & rodeos which came back positive. I tried everything for almost a week. So did a MB tech and a private Indy. All 3 instances were verified no error only to still be undriveable
I know what you mean first hand.
Problem being the SDS doesn't help at all here. Mercedes techs (let alone private Indy's who rarely work on hydraulics at all) aren't proficient at ABC hydraulics . The OG ( highway robbery ) method is still used. by MB and all shops. Replace everything if the problem is not obvious.
Proper repairs need old fashioned mechanic skills using the scientific method of research to diagnose the problems and it's repairs. Not SDS or even electronics. After you chase down the problem using brains, hands and eyes; fix it, then you can verify the results with SDS but throwing parts at an old car will without serious mechanical skills only empty your pockets and drive you mad
The problem with ABC hydraulics system is electronics only nanny high pressure hydraulics issues. Sure, you can detect a height switch or a control valve issue but it won't explain why. You're only detecting a electrical change noted by the cars ECU/SDS. It all boils down to a hydraulic failure.
At some point the system is just too old to part and piece it together and you either scrap the suspension or put more money than the car itself costs merely in suspension. The worst thing is this will happen to all R230's even a car with 12,000 mi. Hydraulics only last so long.
I ran a complete SDS diagnostic on the car; set the height values, ran tests & rodeos which came back positive. I tried everything for almost a week. So did a MB tech and a private Indy. All 3 instances were verified no error only to still be undriveable
Yeah the OG (highway robbery) method aka "replace everything" is still widely used...
05-15-2023, 11:00 AM
