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Trunk Lid leading edge Stopped Pointing Up when Lowering; WHY? See Live Data
Hi Guys,
Can you check the live data below please; and help me fix the roof lowering function? The front top latches opened or activated, and trunk lid stopped with the leading edge pointing up. The rollbar is stuck up.
The live data starts with the roof not lowered. Next are vario roof, then rollbar data with the roof stopped lowering in the up position.
I don’t know if history is relevant. But, I have replaced cylinders with top hydraulic rebuilds in all cylinders except the lower forward ones including rollover bar, lock pawls, and forward lower pair.
See attached photo of flap position.
SL 2003 07112003 DIAGLINK before roof lowered
---------------------1 of 3 Frame---------------------
318 Open vario roof using NO
control switch or infrared.
319 Close vario roof using NO
control switch or infrared.
317 Vario roof position In locked-in
position and
closed
320 Implausible status of the NOT RECOGNIZED
vario roof limit switches
321 Abort conditions for vario NOT RECOGNIZED
roof limit switches
322 Vario roof in stop mode NO
323 Vario roof subsequently NO
locked
324 Vario roof in emergency mode NO
Roof lowering stopped with trunk lid open pointing up leading edge, stopped
---------------------1 of 3 Frame---------------------
318 Open vario roof using NO
control switch or infrared.
319 Close vario roof using NO
control switch or infrared.
317 Vario roof position In valid
intermediate
position
320 Implausible status of the NOT RECOGNIZED
vario roof limit switches
321 Abort conditions for vario NOT RECOGNIZED
roof limit switches
322 Vario roof in stop mode YES
323 Vario roof subsequently NO
locked
324 Vario roof in emergency mode NO
Roof lowering stopped with trunk lid open pointing up leading edge, stopped 2
---------------------1 of 6 Frame---------------------
420 Pump temperature 25°C
430 Status Pump temperature Temperature <
85°C
431 Rate of rise of pump NO
temperature is too high.
493 Hydraulic unit o.k. YES
Roof lowering stopped with trunk lid open pointing up leading edge, stopped 3
---------------------1 of 3 Frame---------------------
440 Actuation : Open side flaps NOT RECOGNIZED
of rear shelf.
457 Actuation : Hydraulic pump NOT RECOGNIZED
452 Actuation : Main valve NOT RECOGNIZED
455 Actuation : Open tubular RECOGNIZED
frame and locks.
456 Actuation : Lower load NOT RECOGNIZED
assist.
453 Actuation : Close vario RECOGNIZED
roof.
454 Actuation : Open vario roof. RECOGNIZED
450 Actuation : Fold in side NOT RECOGNIZED
flaps.
451 Actuation : Raise rollover NOT RECOGNIZED
bar.
458 Actuation : Backup RECOGNIZED
transistor
Roof lowering stopped with trunk lid open pointing up leading edge, stopped 4
---------------------1 of 6 Frame---------------------
560 Vehicle speed 0 mph
536 Rollover bar switch : NOT RECOGNIZED
'Raise' function operated
537 Rollover bar switch : NOT RECOGNIZED
'Lower' function operated
600 Magnet test faulty NO
Roof lowering stopped with trunk lid open pointing up leading edge, stopped 5
---------------------1 of 8 Frame---------------------
370 Rollover bar lowered NOT RECOGNIZED
371 Rollover bar raised RECOGNIZED
Roof lowering stopped with trunk lid open pointing up leading edge, stopped 6
---------------------1 of 6 Frame---------------------
420 Pump temperature 15°C
430 Status Pump temperature Temperature <
85°C
431 Rate of rise of pump NO
temperature is too high.
493 Hydraulic unit o.k. YES
Roof lowering stopped with trunk lid open pointing up leading edge, stopped 7
---------------------1 of 3 Frame---------------------
520 Ignition ON YES
530 Voltage supply is o.k. YES
531 Pump temperature OK YES
532 Switch Vario roof not YES
operated
533 Limit switch OK NO
534 Activation of rollover bar YES
NOT ACTIVE
535 Actuations using diagnosis YES
NOT ACTIVE
Roof lowering stopped with trunk lid open pointing up leading edge, stopped 8
---------------------1 of 3 Frame---------------------
480 Power supply Loading assist YES
490 Solenoid valve and pump RECOGNIZED
outputs OK
491 Vario roof is open and in NOT RECOGNIZED
the end position, trunk lid is
open
492 Switch N72s17 (Rollover bar RECOGNIZED
switch) not operated
493 Hydraulic unit o.k. YES
494 Activation of rollover bar NOT ACTIVE
495 Actuations using diagnosis YES
NOT ACTIVE
496 Vehicle speed with ignition YES
switched on below threshold value
497 Load assist switch NOT OPERATED
Roof lowering stopped with trunk lid open pointing up leading edge, stopped 9
---------------------1 of 3 Frame---------------------
050 Supply voltage 14.2 V
420 Pump temperature 15°C
430 Status Pump temperature Temperature <
85°C
560 Vehicle speed 0 mph
082 Current consumption of power 0.0 A
window motor ( Left rear )
202 Current consumption of power 0.0 A
window motor ( Right rear )
151 Supply voltage of Hall 11.2 V
sensors ( Left rear )
271 Supply voltage of Hall 11.2 V sensors ( Right rear )
The vario roof diagnostic aid.pdf (IIRC in benzbits) picture indicates s69/2 & s69/3 are shorted / sticking. These are vario roof locked limit switches just aft of the top of the windshield. The roof will not open along the top of the windshield but about ¼ inch. How do I troubleshoot?
Check value 379. That is the trunk open S119 switch. If the switch is not recognized, the flaps will not be deployed and the roof opening will stall exactly where it is.
Thanks Mike S119 shorted / sticking is also pictorially indicated in the diagnostics pdf. For S119 it also says: Actual Values: (379) - Recognized = switched contact closed Not Recognized = switched contact open. So, it looks like a good suspect.
However, actual value 379 is not found in any of the live data I pulled with my Diaglink scanner. Nor is 374 the actual value for s69/2 & 3 shorted / sticking.
I have DAS as well as the Diaglink. How do I check values 379 and 374?
I have DAS as well as the Diaglink. How do I check values 379 and 374?
On DAS they will be under RVC-->Actual Values-->Vario Roof-->Vario Roof Limit Switches. Since you have all of the trunk lining out, you can do a quick visual check to make sure that the rod that actuates the S119 switch on the trunk lift cylinder is intact. They are fragile when they age and a common issue. It could also be the S69/2&3 switches, but they don't fail 'stuck closed' very often. When they do, it is usually the wiring shorted to the frame. Otherwise, both switches would have to be stuck.
I finally got the Vario Roof Limit Switch Actual Values when the trunk lid got stuck straight up while lowering. I think the Switch; Actual Values: S69/2 & 3; 373 Vario Roof CLOSED, RECOGNIZED while the trunk is stuck indicates a short. Is that right? See pictures:
Trunk Lid leading edge Stopped Pointing Up when Lowering – error stage
Switch; Actual Values
S69/2 & 3; 373 Vario Roof CLOSED, RECOGNIZED
S69/2 & 3; 374 Vario Roof INTELOCKED, NOT RECOGNIZED
S119; 79 Tubular Frame OPEN, RECOGNIZED
S119; 380 Tubular frame CLOSED. LOCKED, NOT RECOGNIZED
Before error stage
Switch; Actual Values
S69/2 & 3; 373 Vario Roof CLOSED, RECOGNIZED
S69/2 & 3; 374 Vario Roof INTELOCKED, RECOGNIZED
S119; 379 Tubular Frame OPEN, NOT RECOGNIZED
S119; 380 Tubular frame CLOSED. LOCKED, RECOGNIZED
The below picture shows the DAS LIMIT SWITCH CODES in the before I tried to lower the roof/ not opened position:
Can I push the top up and back to partially open it? It is heavy. I may have the short in the folding hinge of the roof.
Can I just remove the lock pawls, and push it back down; or do I need to hold the release spring with an inserted screwdriver. The interior panels are removed.
Was it possibly an emergency deployment? Try to raise, hold the switch for a few seconds, then try to lower it. If it won't lower, lower manually. There are a couple different designs, but WIS should have instructions for either.
Hey Mike do the codes tell you something about the rollbar? The roof quit working. Afterward the rollbar popped up when I ran over a huge bump. I have replaced the roof cylinders with rebuilds except the rollbars, lock pawls, and load assist cylinders. I have seen procedures for lowering the rollbar.
Can I just remove the lock pawls, and push it back down; or do I need to hold the release spring with an inserted screwdriver?
Did you try to raise it and reengage it first? The emergency deployment decouples the cylinder from the roll bar, bar is up but cylinder is in lowered position. You need to use the 'raise' switch to bring the cylinder up and reattach. When you lower the roof, the roll bar lowers before any roof movement is allowed. If roll bar raised is 'Recognized', the roof will not move. You may well have other issues, but that is the first one to deal with. If you have the retracting springs I don't believe that you have to remove the pawl cylinders.
As usual, you are right on. I removed the rollbar switch and pushed the down position limit switch while I held the vario roof lowering button while the roof was stuck. The roof started lowering through the cycle again. I released the rollbar down switch, and the roof stopped partially lowered.
Later, I tried holding the rollbar down switch down, and holding the roof down switch. It no longer lowers. I think I interrupted the lowering cycle, and the computer did not recognize the cycle sequence anymore. I imagine I can clear fault codes, hold both of the above switches, and get the roof to work again, RIGHT???.
The rollbar switch upper screw was missing. So the up rollbar position switch may not have been engaging. A gadget on the lower outboard side of that right side rollbar assembly is loose.
I think I don’t have the strength to lower the rollbar. I removed the lock pawls, and think I wedged drill bits in the up down locks to keep them released.
See picture.
What should I do next????
I do have used good looking (like they are rebuilt) replacement compressed/down rollbar assemblies complete with lock pawls; and Top Hydraulics rebuilt Load Assist cylinders.
The roof and rollbar control switches do not work since I stopped in the middle of lowering by releasing the rollbar down position limit switch… ANY IDEAS ON HOW TO FIX IT?
I reconnected the top of the right side rollbar cylinder to the upper switch mechanism so the gadget on the lower outboard side of that right side rollbar assembly is no longer loose.
With the lock pawls reinstalled the rollbar only stays lowered about 3/4s. How can I get it to stay in the totally down position?????
It helps to understand exactly how the roll bar works. The left side has a heavy spring to deploy the roll bar in an emergency. The right side has the hydraulic cylinder that is used to raise and lower the roll bar under normal conditions and to hold the bar down against the left side spring when it is lowered. Hydraulic line 100, the rod side of the roll bar cylinder, always holds pressure.
When emergency deployment is triggered, a solenoid on the top of the cylinder release the roll bar and allows the left side spring to pop it up. At this point, roll bar cylinder is fully retracted (lowered position) and the bar itself is fully raised. When you try to lower it, it tries to retract the cylinder, but it is already fully retracted.
If the bar stays down part way, you have probably reattached the cylinder and it is partially extended. To get it completely down, you will need to retract the cylinder using the switch. However, roll bar operation is blocked unless the roof is fully opened or fully closed. You should manually close and lock the roof, then lower the roll bar.
The roof still will not move at all. The hydraulic pump makes no sound. How can I get it to move again????
The roof has not operated since I pressed the rollbar down position switch, it lowered some, then I released the limit switch.. Since then I manually lowered the roll bar about ¾, and reattached the rollbar cylinder. I have erased some implausible switch faults. The roof center console raie or lower button flashes. See pics, and DAS readouts. I have manually lowered the rollbar, and can’t get the latch to hold the cylinder and toothed bar down.
Regardless, how can I troubleshoot why the roof won’ budge or the pump make a sound? I swapped the relay at the pump with a known good one. Fuse 68 looks good.
The roof will not move without the roll bar being fully lowered. The roll bar will not move unless the roof is fully open or fully closed. Try holding or shorting the roll bar down switch and CLOSE the roof. If that works, raise and lower the roll bar and then try opening the roof.
At the point you are in the open cycle the load assist should be UP. That might be your problem, but FIRST get the roll bar straightened out.
No matter what, I cannot get the rollbar to stay locked lowered. I tried with the lock pawls in and out/not secured in the rollbar assemblies. The lock pawls in are loose like their cylinders are not pressurized. I have started the engine at various points and pushed or pulled the center console roof lowering switch. I can’t get the pictured double hooks to stay hooked holding the rollbar lowered. Does anyone know how to short/lower the rollbar??? Here is the applicable Benzbits bit:
Press retracting springs (1) in left and right simultaneously with a screwdriver (2) in direction of arrow (arrow A). In doing so, press the roll bar down all the way, then release the retracting springs (1) After releasing the retracting springs (1), the locks in the support elements (3) must latch audibly. Once the locks have latched, carefully release the roll bar.
{Only on vehicles with retracting springs (1) at support elements (3) Aid of helper required.}
I am tempted to exchange the right rollbar cylinder assembly with a used one; along with the rebuilt right load assist cylinder (while it is exposed) to see if that helps.
The front latch windshield cylinder and the hydraulic pump are both leaking; as well as IIRC at least1 load assist cylinder.
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Trunk Lid leading edge Stopped Pointing Up when Lowering; WHY? See Live Data
