TxBenzIn

Well, I messed up. I know nothing about cars and trusted the wrong person. As a result I own a 2003 SL 500 with 69k miles and $23k in needed repairs.

(See previous Post) https://mbworld.org/forums/sl-class-...er-2003-a.html

I'm trying to figure out where to go from here. I'm supposed to take to this to the dealership Weds for a new SBC pump, but it needs way more than that, so I'm likely not going to bother, because I'll have to have to towed home if I decline repairs.

An indy shop that specializes in MB, just gave me a quote for $23k worth of mostly suspension repairs, dry rotted hoses, etc. Nothing for the engine, transmission or roof was mentioned. They also quoted a coilover suspension conversion for $11k - but If I'm going to keep it, I want it to be original.

What is the best way to get rid of this thing? Is that the only option?


Donate it?
Sell it - I would fully disclose the needed repairs, so I'd guess it's resale value is less than Zero.
Part it out - How?
Fixing it anyway - and enjoying it?

I'm toying with the idea of fixing it but then I'd have well over $30k into a car that books for $7-$12k. Then who know what's going to happen next. Every time I say it out loud I kick myself for saying it, but then I also say, well if you fix it, you can enjoy it for a couple years. Yes it's expensive and no I'm not loaded, but I can get it fixed if I wanted to.

I love this car - sure I just got it, but I've loved these cars for years and finally owning one does put a smile on my face ear to ear - I can only imagine driving it will do the same ten fold.

I've learned a valuable lesson in car buying. You can say it, "Im a f'in idiot" because I've said it a lot this past week too. But I would like to learn a little more before I just give up on it. It's too nice of a car to just scrap, but it's also not safe to drive unless repaired.

Replace Brake Hoses
Replace Right Front Strut
Replace Serpentine Belt
Replace Air Filters
Dry Rotted / cracked Drive Shaft Flex Discs
Remove / Replace Spark Plugs
Font Wheel bearing pack/adjustment
Brake Fluid Service
R/R Pressure Accumulators
Cracked front control arm bushings
R/R Rear Strut assemblies
Transmission fluid Flush
R/R Fuel Filter
Replace front Thrust Arms and Bushings
R/R Hydraulic Suspension Lines

elMacko

My friend, when you purchased an older "expensive when new vehicle" the repairs if done by a shop will be on "the expensive vehicle" reason why these repairs by dealer shops or other are so costly. The only way you could purchase and operate a fancy vehicle without exceeding the "street value" is doing the maintenance/repairs job yourself and getting good used parts at lower prices. If you do not have the space, tools and knowledge, your cost to operate that fancy vehicle will be beyond any reasonable financial justification. You already experienced that adventure. When I purchased my 2004 perhaps the repairs by specialized shops where in the same order of yours, but I did them on my own under $1000...! The moral of the story is, do not buy a fancy car if you cannot DYI..!
My advice, try to sell it as is to the best offer!

TxBenzIn

Yup, I'm not a DIY - and I didn't anticipate that the repair would be so much. For some reason I thought maintaining an older car, would be "normal" lol. Your statement about doing repairs on an "expensive vehicle" is what I've learned. I'm not trying to preserve the street value - If I fix it, I don't ever intend to sell it. I want to fix it to enjoy it and I understand that's the cost of pride and ownership. I'm just wrestling with that concept. I'd much rather put $20k into this, than buy a new something else. I was just shocked at how much it needed so quickly.

HLG600

$11K for a coilover suspension conversion is absurd, as is the $23K estimate for this job list.

Is the car drive-able? Are you actually getting any ABC errors?

TxBenzIn

the car drives great - the abc errors i get are when I hit a bump and the back end bounces a little. The Red - “ABC Drive Carefully” light comes on for a couple seconds and goes out.

outside of that I wouldn’t suspect anything was wrong with it, but I’m also not a car guy.

imtheking

11k for a coilover install? The set is like $1000 and maybe another $1000 to install.

there's a user on here named llcoolbenz who runs a business from his home in ohio who does these coilover installs. his youtube is called gold element autoworks. last time i checked he wants $2500 for the install and the neomax coilovers are like $1000. he removes the entire abc system from the car.

anyway, that list is not that bad. price everything out on yourmechanic.com and see it comes close to what the shop quoted you. 20k is outrageous. They are probably using oem parts at a huge markup. Most of those parts can be bought from fcpeuro. fluids and belt are not hard to replace.

I say source the parts yourself and see if you can find a good mechanic who does side work.

imtheking

That's your accumalators. front and rear. $500 for the parts and maybe an hour laboe for front and back. Search the forums

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mer...tor-2203270115

TxBenzIn

this is the estimate.

if you think this is absurd, good to know I can’t trust that shop.

im trying to learn but I clearly picked an expensive car to learn on.

imtheking

absurd is an understatement.

HLG600

That's a common issue (accumulators) and even if you factored in rebuilding the valve block (another common issue) and fully servicing the system, you're still in the vicinity of a couple thousand done expertly / correctly.

merim123

print this thread out and show it to the shop. If the car is driveable, address the things that keep it driveable for now til you learn more.

MikeJ65

It is pretty hard to say that any part of that list is totally unnecessary. I'm sure that you have some issues on the struts, probably the covers at least. Front bushings will probably be cracked if they are original, ABC hoses are 20+ years old and replacement is a good idea, etc. That said, you have a pretty high estimate and not everything needs to be done at once. If it was $4k/year for the next three years, would that be a cost of ownership that you would be comfortable with?

I haven't seen the car, but I have seen enough R230s that I can pretty much tell you what it would need. The first priority would be your red ABC light. When it happens over bumps, it is 95% blown accumulator(s). If it was in my shop, I would recommend rebuilding both main accumulators and rebuilding both valve blocks. If the rear pressure feed line is original, it should be replaced and the same with the front. Since the system is open and pressure valve is easy access, I would replace those two pressure lines as well. I would also fuse your BCM, which is first in line after getting the car running and driving. I would be around $2k for that, but I think a typical Mercedes specialist would be closer to $4k. The second year would be a front suspension rebuild, replacing front strut hoses and strut covers, checking strut ball joints, replacing front brake lines. Pretty close to the same pricing assuming the struts are not leaking. Year three would be flex joints, trans service, brake fluid, spark plugs, etc.

I just did about $5k work on a 2004 SL55 that was a tow in. Three ABC lines, both accumulators, rebuild both valve blocks, replace one torque arm, repair OEM keyless go key and program two additional keys, replace A/C blower, fix PSE, replace keyless go module, replace rear battery, fuse BCM module, remove and code out Teleaid, R&R front bumper for towing, replace mesh grill clips, replace driver side mirror glass, replace cluster LCD's, resolve battery drain, reconditioned headlights, clean debris in underbody pans, and replace rodent chewed wiring behind supercharger (MAP sensor). Dealer was at $25k and that didn't include additional problems that I found. I do work too cheap, but I would rather see these on the road instead of stuck in a garage or sent to a salvage yard.

TxBenzIn

thank you for the time to type this out.

Yes I’d happily pay $4-5k a year to drive this. I just plan on running around town here and there on weekends. Not a daily driver - my weekend car.

thats where I’m at. This isn’t a scrap car by any means but damn 20k is a lot. I want to enjoy it, and financially I can afford to fix it, but i don’t know what I’m getting myself into, so your post was incredible helpful.

let me know when you come to Indiana . I’ll give you $5k and all the food/beverage you can consume. I might even cover the trip too! 😂

merim123

Mike J65 gave you a great plan for how to prioritize the issues. Call around and see what you can find in terms of mechanics.

Also - you can have your car shipped to mike for a 1000/roundtrip is my guess too...

Tom Manning

Mike should raise his prices.

***

You can surely get this running for a fraction of that quote. Finding the right mechanic is critical - forget those rogues who quoted you $23,000.00. Would you freight it to Mike if he'd take it on?

TxBenzIn

I absolute would consider doing this. Like I said, I love this car and really want to enjoy it - but finding someone to trust to just do honest work isn't my strong suit. I often find the wrong people and I'm too trusting that people are going to just be fair ... case in point, I'm considering shipping my car to a random stranger I just met on the internet...

But Yes, I would do it.

tonylinc

I never heard of rebuilding the accumulators, I bought new from FCPeuro for about $750 accumulators and pulsation dampener. Even the "car killer hose" that MB charges $9000 to replace is easily replaced by competent mechanics for maybe $1000 or $2000 and even less if you do it yourself, you buy a new hose, cut the ends off, install those, wind the new hose thru where the old one was, then use 10K PSI highest quality splice hydraulic connectors. Done!

cdk4219

To be honest with you, if you can’t work on these yourself, they aren’t worth owning, as that’s the tip of the “maintenance” iceberg. They are lots of work when you can do the repairs yourself, and very expensive when you can’t.

It’s in the 22 year old range, and going to get very costly to repair unless you have someone like mike doing the cheap dirty work. Even then there’s lots of crap on this car that fails and is expensive and getting no longer available. I can’t see why anyone would want to spend $5000 a year to drive a car that’s worth $10,000 or less, and put up with the car.

Nothing has been said about the convertible top, shifter, motor mounts, transmission mounts, batteries, BCM, and other issues that more than likely will arise. The 2003 sl500 my son owns needed an ABC pump by 70,000 miles, and another by 106,000 miles. The car was purchased for $2500 and I couldn’t work on it the shop repairs would be in the $15,000 or more range. Again not worth it, barely worth it if yiu can fix the car yourself. You can’t leave these cars without battery tenders for very long, and leaving them outside is a recipe for wet electronics,

cdk4219

maybe if he lives 3 to 400 miles away, those shipping prices are from a long time ago.

Again what happens when this 22 year old car decides to leak the top fluid out with the top in the retracted position, or the BCM decides to not work anymore. Or the shifter pawl decides to break when he’s out to dinner? Should he keep shipping it to Mike, or should he ship it once and do everything that has the propensity to fail now and spend $15,000 for the car that’s worth possibly $10,000?

This isn’t the car for someone that knows nothing about mechanical things. It requires much too much attention, and this one is the oldest of the US models, which has quite a few specific and hard to get parts for.

If the point was to save some money and get into a convertible, the OP would be much better off with a newer model. There isn’t going to be any savings with this car even at 69,000 miles

maw1124

First off, ignore the $23k. Next, ignore all comments about DIY. Third, ignore all comments about a coil over suspension. What's left is $5k of work, max, IMO.

Replace all the accumulators and any blown lines first. Replace all hydraulic fluid and filters. That's maybe your first $3k. You should also replace spark plugs and related gaskets (to ensure no leaks) and transmission fluid and filter. Maybe that gets you to $5k. Fuel filter is harmless and good to do, as are air filters and oil change.

Then drive the car and see what's what.

That $23k is the estimate they give you to convince you to bail on the car so one of the techs can have it. Do. Not. Fall. For. This.

Finally, add that $5k to what you paid for the car, and ignore the "market" for the car. These cars are tons of car for the "market" money, which is why you bought it in the first place. Markets go up; markets go down. Pretty safe to ignore them for 20+ year old cars -- when they go up, great; when they go down, who cares? These are not investments.

maw

HLG600

Where in Indiana are you?

I might be in Indianapolis at some point this month and, if so, could bring my diagnostic setup with me to scan for ABC codes / run a few function checks for you.

Reading more about your car / situation, there's two things to account for with ABC:

1. What's necessary to get your car sorted (accumulators, filter, fluid, etc.).

2. What's likely around the corner and worth doing to get out of the way (lines, valve block rebuild, etc.)

That estimate also called out 1 front strut and both rear shocks. Are they leaking?

In any case, worth checking your ABC fluid level as an easy step at home. These systems do not like to run low on fluid...

TxBenzIn

Fishers - just north of Indy.

The only leak is wiper fluid from the front headlight washer. Nothing else on the garage floor.

TxBenzIn

I work from home, I have been without a car for 3 years (Wife and Daughter have car I use on occasion, but I don't have one that's "Mine".) So I don't need this for transportation, or actually don't need a car at all - but I've wanted one of these. Lately I've been toying with the idea of getting something just to have to get lunch in. There isn't much out there that's less than $30K that I feel compelled to go get just to have a car sit in the garage. I saw this, and knew it would need work, it's 21 years old, I get that. But when I drove it, it really felt good. I'd personally rather put $20k into this, than $40k into anything Newer, or better, or whatever. I've wanted an SL or a very long time.

I didn't really think it was going to cost me $20k to get it in top shape, that's my fault. But I can put it into if, If I want. Sure it's only a $10k car, but it's an SL 500. It's good looking, fun to drive.

TxBenzIn

That is one of my main concerns at this point too, let's say it's $20k today to get it buttoned up, what does next year look like. There's a big difference between $5k a year and $20K a year.. about 15k worth

If I can get three summers out of this that's a victory for me. I also don't want to die in it.

I didn't buy it to save money, or get a return on the investment. I pretty much knew if I bought this, I would be its last owner. Either because I kept it forever, or I let it die.

TxBenzIn

That's my attitude with it. I'd love to enjoy this and give it some life - hell the first few owners barely used it - to me that's a greater waste of money than me throwing $20k into it. They lost more than that by not using it.

In any event, I'd also not want to put that much into it simply because, it's $20k - that's a lot of money regardless of how you justify it. But when it comes to the "VALUE" of the car, I place more emphasis on the joy of owning it value versus what KBB says. I do not plan on selling it for someone else to enjoy. IF it can be enjoyed one last time, I'm gonna be the one to do it.