Robb M.

it's amazing to me how much people are wiling to dig their heels into their own xenophobia and casual racism when confronted with legitimate commentary.

348SStb

What’s more amazing is your willingness to bring the subject back to the fore when it was pretty much over with. What’s amazing is your lack of ability to predict that the moderators will eventually shut down this interesting thread (which is an interesting discussion about cars) because of comments like yours which are incendiary.

What’s further amazing is your usage of the word “legitimate,” as though you are speaking fact and are unbiased. You legitimize your comments by using the word legitimate. However, accusations of or discussion about racism do not constitute a “legitimate” topic of discussion on this thread. This thread is about cars.

Hopefully, back to cars we will go.

Streamliner

This is one of those topics that will be debated forever, at least by me.

Say what anyone will about the R231, I don’t think that many will HONESTLY say that they did not like the retractable hardtop. OK, the cars did not sell well, but it wasn’t because of the marvelous roof. I truly believe it was because:

1. The initial exterior design was not done well. It’s as if they rubber stamped the first design that would work and that was that. It wasn’t refined and wasn’t sexy.

2. In the USA, they dropped ABC as standard equipment on all the non-AMG models, This resulted in a markedly less comfortable ride compared to the previous R230 cars. Even though ABC was available as an option, virtually no dealer ordered the cars with it for stock, salesmen badmouthed the option and only enthusiasts knew much of anything about the absolutely fabulous feature.

3. Both available audio systems were of a flawed design. They did not perform anywhere close to the systems in the R230 cars. MB knew this in 2013, but for the entire, eight year run of the 231’s, they did virtually nothing to cure the issue.

It was because of the above that the R231 cars did not sell well, NOT because of the absolutely sensational, retractable hardtop. As far as “weight distribution,” that should not have been an issue in a new SL design. The 231’s with ABC drive & handle beautifully. The weight distribution only became an issue when the R232 design was given to AMG, where all they know is how to GO FAST.

The R232 design should have been given to a top design house, with the instructions: “Retain the best features of the R231 and give us a unique, comfortable, SEXY, luxury roadster. Give us a car that the world will lust after.” Obviously, that was not done and we now have a softened up GTC, with a basic body design that is years old and looks recycled. Once again, MB cheaped out on a new SL design. What a shame.

crconsulting

4. Don’t forget market dilution and consumer confusion. I can’t think of a time when Mercedes offered so many convertibles across so many lines (between that 2017-2020 period)

Streamliner

Excellent point! How could SL sales not drop, with so many other choices right there in the MB showroom! I know that I was initially thrilled when the S Class Cabriolet was announced, absolutely convinced that I would order one. However, after a test drive, I was so utterly unimpressed and disappointed in the design of the car and the way it drove, that deciding against it was a no brainer. I’ve had so many convertibles over my years and my current SL450 with ABC, forged 19’s all around and non-run flat tires is the best riding out of all of them. And, the car was what I feel was a bonafide bargain.

348SStb

Well said!

Only aspect I’d counter is the audio system subject. I just bought my second 2017 SL63 and this one has the Bang Olufsen. That system is awesome. What do you find wrong with it?

I also think the “base” Harmon Kardon in the R231 (which I have in my other SL63) — “Premium Sound System” (code 810) — is a good to very good system. It’s not excellent. But it has ample power, very good clarity, and overall not a bad system.

Wolfman

Interesting commentary, responding to the guy running this fantastic Mercedes forum
For the benefit of maintaining this interesting thread, I have deleted all relevant comments as they indeed contributed nothing to the topic at hand. Thanks...

Wolfman

We both had a lot of SL's over the years and for us the use of the hardtop was even more relevant, given the Minnesota climate. But we have moved on to a soft top roadster and I am taking advantage of the pros and disregard the cons. More fun, less practical.
But I can't quite understand the ongoing bickering about the R232. To me it is arguably a better car because it fits my personal desires better than the R231. For you, it is unfortunately the opposite which means you won't be a buyer and have to look for another brand. But that clearly isn't a problem with the new SL; it's just a bad fit

348SStb

Thanks Wolfman. You’re a little late but glad you have stepped in. I don’t know the administrator or the owner of the forum; nor do I know his screenname. I’m highly surprised that a person in his position would add fuel to the fire by making that comment instead of stepping in to squash petty nonsense consisting of personal attacks and ideological accusations among other unpleasantries. The comments I made apply generally to anyone who would author a post like that — and it happens to be ironic that I was speaking to the guy running the forum.

Streamliner

If I sell my current SL, I cannot imagine ever buying another convertible. There really is no other top down car out there that interests me. That said, if our housing situation doesn't get resolved fairly soon (we currently have only a 2-car garage), the SL may be sold. I just hate leaving cars outdoors, which is where my 2022 S580 has been for the past 8 months or so.

js_cls

Stream I think you are overestimating the amount of people that care about the ABC suspension and audio system so much to not buy the car. Of the biggest reasons for the decline in SL sales, those are likely not the biggest ones.

348SStb

Not sure if you vacation in FL or not but I’ve got a spot for your SL in South FL in my air conditioned warehouse if you find yourself in a jam as things are sorted out.

Streamliner

Thanks, but I live in Southern California. The SL resides in our current, little 2-car garage, along with my wife’s wonderful E450 Wagon. I hate my 2022 S580 and really don’t care about leaving it in the weather 24/7. When I replace the S, something will have to give, but until then, I’m fine.

348SStb

Woah, forged wheels! Nice car. What’s the interior? I don’t want to guess wrong 😃

Nice garage floor! Incidentally, the floor is being done in my garage today.

Streamliner

Thanks. Ginger Beige/Espresso Brown Exclusive Nappa Leather.

wem

You are correct. I never heard of the ABC suspension and did not have a clue as to what audio systems were in the old SL models. The main thing that kept me away was the bloated styling of the more recent SLs. Even though the 232 SL is 5 inches longer than its predecessor, its proportions are more balanced with less VISUAL bloat.

js_cls

Agreed the new SL is the prettiest SL in decades. I never liked the R230 or R231, the hardtop made the cars look very feminine and bulbous, and the R231's front and rear styling was a huge miss to me, even post-facelift. If anything the ABC suspension is most likely associated with reliability considering it was commonly prone to failure on the R230 and was not cheap.

The old SL demographic is dying off and shifting. My salesman said that of the old SL buyers that are still alive and able to drive, they are trading for SUV's because of how much easier it is to get in and out as their SL's are too low, or not suitable anymore for daily driving. In addition convertibles are an ever shrinking market and one that people do not look at for daily driver's but rather a weekend/additional car, with all brands cutting down on cabrio models. MB wants a newer and younger demographic and it seems that based on some members here they've achieved sales to both previous GT owners as well as 911 owners.

crconsulting

Haha one thing about old people, for everyone that dies off, another takes their place

I don't think SL's were ever marketed as daily drivers nor are they really designed to be.

It will be interesting to see US sales numbers's (especially a couple of years after introduction) and if the "model merge" is successfull or will it inherit the SL's consumer fatigue. It's a risky move for Mercedes but makes sense financially. As of right now it's all speculation...

I would LOVE to know the break even point on the new SL. I.e. how many unit's per year do they need to sell to recoup their investment in R&D, tooling and production costs?

I definitely like the R232 for what it is, and who it's marketed to: The AMG GT/911 segment. I drove a couple of them and they are very modern and refined, with a $h!t Ton of HP/ torque. It's a great car. It's a "sportier" ride than the R231 (with all the pro's and con's that come with that). Admittedly, I'm not the target audience, but then again I really like the C190's too. Definitely a master piece of design with distinct Mercedes DNA. If I wanted a high profile car, AMG GT (or the R232) would be the one.

JohnGigi

It looks more like Okay, Boomer was triggered. What an odd post.

wem

I intend to drive the snot out of my SL. I purchased it as my daily driver similar to how I would drive a 911. With the addition of all wheel drive, it makes it practical to use the new SL when the weather isn’t perfect outside. Where I live I don’t need snow tires so it is a four season car for me. Unlike my Astons that I needed to be careful about putting more than a few thousand miles per year to preserve resale value, I don’t think of the SL in that category (fair weather weekend car). I ordered the Performance trim for the additional handling to be able to drive it like an AMG. The front lift is also a must have for me. Not worrying about driveways is a big relief. I drive my cars in sport or sport+ all the time. I fully anticipate gas mileage in the single digits. I am getting up in the years, but this car will let me be a hooligan from time to time. There are very few cars these days that have the level of refinement, pedigree, technology, looks, and overall reliability (glitches with software and the 12v battery don’t phase me) as the new SL. When I showed pictures of the car to my family, my wife (car nut too), my 30 year old daughter, and my 6 year old son all thought it was awesome. Well done MB.

California John

I drive the snot out of mine too. I live in So. Cal so not worried about snow or much foul weather (last couple of months are an exception). Something else that contributes to the handling is the aerodynamic package only available in the performance trim which among other things has a tray under the front that dynamically lowers at speed. It lowers about an inch and a half at full extension if I'm not mistaken. There's a steering wheel control to lower it manually (when stopped) for cleaning and you can then see for yourself how low it goes and how trick it is. It creates a Venturi effect that helps lower the car.

BLAM

Same here; I will drive the heck out my new SL. There’s no other car I prefer over the new SL. It’s the only complete package in my book. Other vehicles for consideration- the new Z06, M4, M8, new or slightly used 911, used 570S, and used Huracan.

wem

Doug DeMuro reviews of old SL and the new SL

Old SL

New SL

crconsulting

Haha! Yes, that's excellent and commend you on using them as designed. 👍
I drive my SL as often as I can too. And in hindsight, I personally have made some much more questionable choices in cars I have driven daily than an SL.
LOL, I remember there was a guy who licensed a Porsche 917 in Alabama and drove it "daily".
Plus, these cars DO NOT like to sit, probably exasperating the software teething issues R232 is experiencing. They like to be driven.

But from the design engineers perspective, driving a car daily isn't the same as a "daily driver". I know semantics right? But they are two different categories. One pertains to reliability the other pertains to functionality.
The term "daily driver" is defined as (and I quote wiki here): "A personally owned automobile driven on a frequent basis for standard and mundane tasks."
Which is pretty much why SUV's are the biggest selling segment.

Let’s face it, trunk space hasn't been a top priority of the designers for the past three SL designs. And two seats limits family/multi person activities. No going to Costco for groceries (for the typical 3.1 person American family) and on the way, stoping by to pick up a cord of wood in these babies... More than two clients or customers to show around a prospective sale site? Friends in from out of town? Going to show them around or going out to dinner? Taking your pet Great Dane "Scooby" and kid out to the beach, hmmm probably not in the SL.
And dare I say it now, Golfing with the wife? Not in the SL....

I alway use a simple criteria to define “daily driver”: If this was the ONLY car I owned, would it function for my daily needs. Everyone here including myself, has more than one car to fill those gaps.

Doesn’t make the SL less than a fantastic car.

wem

All good points. You will laugh. Years ago I owned a SLK 320, which as you know was even smaller than the SL. For a while it was my only car. I would use it for everything, including trips to Home Depot. The convertible top was very useful to increase hauling capacity. One time I put the roof down and loaded a new toilet onto the passenger seat. I am sure that is not what the engineers or marketing people had in mind for the SLK. You are correct that these days most families have more than one car for different tasks. While my SL won't be carrying toilets, I will use it to commute to work, take trips to the grocery store, Walmart, Home Depot, go through McDonald's drive through, drop off my son at school every morning, and even get dressed up once in a while to take my wife out to dinner. My suspicion is that my wife will keep a second set of keys in her handbag to sneak it out for her various appointments too. I'm just glad to hear that people enjoy and drive their SLs on more than just weekends.