Tifoso48

I am wondering what the group thinks.

Autotrader lists around 450 new SL for sale. Clearly, some are duplications but nevertheless, there are tons of unsold vehicles out there.

I am aware that some members have placed order for MY 2023, but have not seen any 2023 available for general sale, which should indicate to me that MB is trying to move this mountain of existing 2022's first.

Is this a strong indicator that this car is simply not moving and of course what are the implications on resale value.

Curious what the group thinks

js_cls

The SL was always destined for failure. It simply is a car that is no longer sought after like the past, as well as a niche vehicle in an ever changing market. And before R230/231 owners scream its because of the 2+2 seating and soft top, the SL has long been in a decline, with the R231 also being a tough sale for a majority of its sales cycle. The SL is best kept in limited production rather than mass production, the market for a six-figure convertible is small, especially considering the car came out right as the cold came in. The SL survived for one big reason, its nameplate, its too iconic for MB to retire, regardless of lackluster sales.

Streamliner

It is true that SL sales have been declining for several years now. As a long time owner of SL’s, I attribute this to what started in 2009, when MB performed a face lift to the R230 models that looked as if it had been phoned in by a five person committee of first year college students. Then, when the completely new R231 hit the market, it did so in the USA with another odd looking front end and sans the marvelous ABC suspension that had been standard on the R230’s from 2003 through 2012. In addition, both the HK & B&O audio systems were erroneously designed and performed horribly. R230 owners, looking to get a new model, looked at the goofy front end, listened to the crummy audio, felt the cheapened suspension and said “that’s 3 strikes, you’re OUT,” as they headed over to their local Porsche or Bentley dealership. To add insult to injury, MB KNEW about these issues early in 2013, but did not correct them throughout the entire eight year model run, with the exception being the better front end design done in 2017, but by then it was too little too late.

SL sales declined sharply between 2013 & 2020, but the main reason was the indifference and lack of attention paid by MB. I truly believe the SL—as a traditional, luxurious, ultra comfortable roadster—could still be a car in substantial demand, IF MB had continued to design & build a great car and took care in addressing defects in the product & marketing. In my opinion, they did not.

One last thought: I believe MB shot themselves in the foot by naming this redesigned AMG convertible the “New SL.” It just doesn’t make sense, at least not to me.

Wolfman

We are also long-time owners of various SL models and trying to find blame with the R231 would be easy; after all this car was anything but pretty when launched 10 years or so ago. Interestingly, this car turned out to be one of MB's most reliable models and over time the car actually looks somehow better than when it launched. I suppose changes in automotive design proportions have caught up with the R231 SL while the R230 now looks hopelessly dated.

But I differ with your assessment of would have made the car more successful. Convertibles have somewhat fallen out of favor and the market and demographic have moved on, shrinking its customer base to a very small and older buyers group. AMG on the other hand is not only a money making machine but also has the demographic MB wanted for the latest SL. Younger and more affluent than the typical MB customers.

The SLINO conversation in the R231 forum on the other hand has been so silly I am surprised this even caught on. I understand that people bemoan loosing some features they liked, I myself have the same issue with the weight increase over the GTC roadster, the inferior MCT over the Getrag Dual Clutch and loss of the front-mid engine but those are just annoyances that will be offset some other cool feature that makes the car more enjoyable.
The folding hardtop was also never synonimous with the SL although we loved the practicality for all season use here in MN. They had it until they didn't.

That said, MB didn't do themselves any favors stuffing the channel with making the SL a MY22 to start with instead of MY23, missing options that make the car feel more luxurious (namely the diamond stitched exclusive leather, missing color combos) and a high entry price with high leasing/financing rates. BMW made a similar dumb move with the 8 Series and paid a price for it.

As for the number of technical glitches, even if more of an annoyance than a real issue is unforgivable for a large scale manufacturer. This is the kind of nonsense you normally get from small niche players like McLaren. They better sort this out quick...

chassis

Spot on. For each of the past 10 years in Europe and in the US, SL sales have been lower each year. For both Europe and the US, peak SL sales were more than 20 years ago.

It's fading model, and has been fading for a long time. It's an expensive toy. Low volume to begin with, and headed lower.

For a little more money, or a little less money, there are many good choices besides the SL.

Alan Smithee

I do not think the new SL was destined for failure. I think the opposite, in fact...it could have been a big hit; with tons of money out there, the 911 cabriolets very hard to find allocations for and priced $15k+ over MSRP and Jaguar giving up, there is only the Lexus LC and BMW 8-series to compete in the premium convertible market. But Mercedes completely and utterly blundered the release. And got greedy with pricing once they finally announced it (at least in the US). In our case, the dealer and MBFS also got greedy, which compounded our disappointment and frustration. We are exactly the target market for the car...I'm the old guy that cruises our W113 through Beverly Hills (see Tifoso48's other post on the subject), and my wife could be one of the women in their marketing videos. Yet they turned us off of it completely...and the brand as well. It is no surprise to me that they are not selling.

Streamliner

My big disappointment is because I am ADDICTED to new cars. I’ve bought or leased sixty brand new cars over my lifetime and I truly wanted a new SL. I love my 2019 SL450, but I was looking forward to getting a new one. I hardly drive my SL, and it’s a third car in our family of two, but I wanted a new one just the same. So, when the details started coming out about the R232, I was so disappointed. No retractable hardtop, two, useless rear seats, a clumsy, “removable” wind screen, an iPad center stack, stiffer AMG ride characteristics, and a design that was pretty much a clone of the GTC. Not everyone is enthralled with blistering acceleration and the ability to take corners at great speed, which appear to be the ONLY things the 232 does better than the 231’s. Check that: I’m sure the audio system works better too.

If I want a new, top down cruiser, it won’t be from MB. I’ll probably just keep what I have, which equals one less new SL sale.

Alan Smithee

^ Have you actually driven one?

Streamliner

If you are asking me, no, I have not driven an R232. I have no desire to.

Alan Smithee

Maybe you should go drive one without the sport suspension and with an open mind…you might love it.

Streamliner

1. No retractable hardtop.
2. Useless rear seats.
3. Antiquated, ridiculous, removable wind screen.
4. iPad in a convertible.
5. No comfy, non-AMG variant.
6. Uninspiring, previously used exterior design.
7. Marginally luxurious interior.
8. Way too expensive.
9. Am currently fighting massively irritating issues with my 2022 S580 and am not inclined to add to that headache.

Need I go on?

California John

I don't think Streamliner likes the car😇

JohnGigi

Without actually trying it. Hard to overcome a built in prejudice. I love mine.

Alan Smithee

None of those items would prevent me from buying a car if I liked how it drove. But, by all means, continue to complain…

mercedesmax

I think it depends on the market you are in. We don't have any problem selling the car. Most of our 23 allocation is presold. As was most of our 22 allocation. I'm sure there are markets in the northeast and midwest where the car doesn't do as well. 450 is still barely more than 1 per dealership and I'm sure a number of those were presold. 22's are still coming in. 23 production has started

wem

If the goal for MB was to bring in new buyers (or bring back former buyers) to the brand, they succeeded in my case. I ordered my new SL without seeing or driving one in person (or even knowing the MSRP for a 2023). I picked the exterior color (Hyper blue) and the interior (exclusive tartufo/black) based only on the images on a computer screen. It is the first car in a long time that I bought for myself that my wife is looking forward to driving too. She did not want to drive my Porsche Taycan (too crazy fast) my Maserati Quattroportes (too big), or my Aston Martins (too much fear of curbing the rims, cracking the carbon fiber splitter, or getting parking lot dings). When I showed her the new SL, she said it was aggressive looking without being obnoxious. As far as age, I am 60 and my wife is 50. It that too old or too young for the SL?

In addition to the new styling, I was drawn to:

• the all wheel drive (the problem with my rear wheel drive Astons was the engine overwhelmed the drive train - not the case in my all wheel drive Porsches and Maseratis)
• rear axle steering (if you have never experienced rear axle steering - it is awesome for U turns and parking)
• the two rear seats (even if they are not suitable for adults - it is perfect for my 6 year old if we want to drive with three of us in the car)
• the AMG V-8 (it is great that MB hasn't down sized this engine like everyone else seems to be doing these days)
• the exhaust sound (I also ride motorcycles so I like downshift pops)
• the amount of standard equipment and tech (the list of options was so small that I thought I was ordering a Japanese car instead of a German car - so different from my Porsches)
• the SL55 was a relative bargain compared to the other cars I was considering as my next daily driver (911, another Taycan, new Maserati Gran Turismo - all of which when optioned were over $200k)
• the availability of the Performance Trim with the active suspension and front lift (mandatory in my mind for driveways, speed bumps)
• and the soft top (having owned two SLKs (hardtops) and a CLK cabriolet (soft top), I felt that my hardtop convertibles detracted from the real experience - the little bit of wind noise when the soft top was up - and the blind spot are part of the real convertible experience - the latter mostly solved with current blind spot/cross traffic technology)

My new SL55 is being off loaded from the ship in Brunswick, GA as we speak. I am excited to see and drive it when it clears the VPC. I already have the vanity plate picked out. In the worst case scenario, if it turns out to be a dud, at the end of the day it is a car and unlike kids, I can trade it in and get another toy.

wem

New Motorweek review.

e350wagon1

I switched from my 5th 911 - 992 S cab last - and I love my SL63. And I like(d) these forums because it’s nice to share experiences w other people who love this car. Too simple maybe… but enjoyable

348SStb

I was ridiculed by some on these forums for saying very early on that the R232 would have a very bad time in the marketplace. Alas, my prediction came true very much sooner than I expected. As of today, some 450 units brand new for sale — all 2022 models in the debut model year.

Tales about declining SL sales, declining convertible sales, etc. do not apply. We have been in the most tremendous Seller’s Market known to man. And Mercedes screwed this up?

I could go on and about why the R232 SL is simply a poor choice for the price and why it’s a poor choice for a luxury sports car. I’ve done that already and so have others.

What I’ll do instead is daydream for a moment on what greatness we could have had with a different R232. Anyone care to join?

The R231 platform is an engineering masterpiece.
- short wheelbase equals sports car type handling
- lightweight top despite hardtop form factor
- lightweight chassis and body in aluminum
- hardtop allows for superb - and I mean superb - all around visibility which both adds to enjoyment level, adds to daily driving capabilities, and reduces driver fatigue
- hands down the best open-top car driving experience the planet has ever seen: automatic wind deflector, virtually zero wind turbulence at regular highway speeds, very little wind turbulence at super high highway speeds. There is no convertible that does its job as a convertible driver better than the R231. I’ve owned or ridden in just about all of them.
- substantial trunk. It is not small. And unlike some cars (ahem, R232), size of the opening cavity is not a complete joke. Combine this with a usable shelf behind the seats and you have a very practical 2-seater.
- it embraces rear-wheel drive. All-wheel drive is one of the great American car scams. It has achieved its success largely in part because the typical American driver doesn’t know that snow tires even exist. It’s carried over to performance cars and it’s not something that most driving enthusiasts want. Most people who desire the quickest straight line 0-60 time are of either a new generation or simply do not appreciate all the attributes of rear wheel drive combined with today’s vehicle stability control technology.

Without coming out with a new model, Mercedes could have facelifted the car again for 2020 or 2021 as follows:
1) Install the 4.0 litre V8 and 9-speed auto powertrain. This would greatly modernize the car’s hardware and bring it up to current standards. Plus it would save weight!
2) Restyle in the interior and GIVE THE SL ITS OWN INTERIOR instead of sharing infotainment screens or infotainment philosophy with a C-class. Drivers who own driver’s cars want to drive the cars without nuisance. Very few actual driving enthusiasts care about infotainment functionality; nor do they necessarily want it. The R232 infotainment is a cosmopolitan absurdity in a car like an SL. The SL deserves an excellent sound system and infotainment functionality but not an overly complicated distraction from the road or nuisance for simple tasks.
3) Restyle the front end and give it the obligatory Panamericana grille.
4) Restyle the rear-end. I think the rear of the R231 is fine - but just that - fine. Ordinary. It’s not special. For example the rear of an 8 series is special. It’s unique to the 8 series and it means business. The rear of the R232 to me is worse than fine.
5) Improve ABC further- simplify the system, make it less complex, and bring it into the new generation. Make it standard, and offer a 10-year warranty on the ABC system; and commit to making parts for it for 50 years.
6) ABC system should have curve inclination function. Increase the inner roll angle to 4 degrees and allow for user adjustability of the roll angle. Engineer the car to allow for the curve inclination function at all times under a certain speed without it being eliminated during hard cornering maneuvers. Increase the upper speed threshold of curve inclination availability to a higher speed; let’s say, 120 mph.
7) ABC suspension system should have Comfort, Sport, and sport plus modes with very noticeable variation between and with an extreme level of sporting characteristic in Sport Plus mode.
8) Add rear axle steering.
9) Improve the convertible top design such that the initiation of top movement can be done while moving at some kind of speed - it doesn’t have to be 30 mph, but how about 10 mph.
10) Reduce the number of options. Make everything pretty much standard. “Base leather?” Give me a break. Nappa is standard. Soft close doors standard. Driver Assistance, Surround View, Cameras, lightweight forged wheels — all standard. Exclusive Nappa is extra. Either way, the base sound system either shouldn’t exist or it should be better. (The Harmon Kardon in the R232 does not suck. It’s very good. It’s not ordinary, and it’s not excellent.)
9) Consider a very limited run of 4-cylinder AMG SL45 S cars. With around 440 horsepower. Yes, I said it! I’ve been prejudiced against 4 cylinder anything forever until last 6 months. These would be super light weight! Keep in mind the R231 SL450 weighs in at 3,825 pounds! Target weight for the AMG SL45 S would be 3600 pounds. It would have stellar fuel economy numbers. These would also be mid-engine! Entire engine would sit behind front axle. Do not price it cheap — make it a few thousand less than SL63 and keep those production numbers low! Market its performance capabilities and emphasize light weight, agility, and Nurburgring time. It should have same attributes as SL63 S — see ahead.
11) Delay introduction of the SL63 S but do come out with a very limited number of S variants. It should have a highly track-focused fixed suspension as standard to distinguish itself from SL63. No ABC means lighter car. It should be a new generation semi-active adaptive suspension. But the suspension should be comfortable for daily use. Believe it or not, a 911 GT3 suspension is comfortable for daily use in terms of shock absorption.
12) Reduce weight further by eliminating unnecessary, endless copper wiring for infotainment and other automated systems.
13) Increase noise insulation as standard with double-pane acoustic glass. Make a package available for further increased noise insulation.
14) Do not hand this project to AMG without oversight. The car needs to be an S-Class level Mercedes. The R232 is not S-class level. It’s AMG GT level, which is E-class level.
15) Offer a V12 SL600 instead of a base V8 car. Price it identically to the SL63. Now we’re talking Prestige. The 600 moniker returns! What a great choice for those dentists, other doctors, and others who loved having their SL but did not want to be involved with performance attributes which they feel are either excessive or delivered at the expense of other attributes they prefer. It doesn’t have to have 621 horsepower — how about the same as whatever is in the SL63. It should have its own unique front end that’s drop-dead gorgeous and with front end design language found on no other Mercedes car in production. Give it a distinguishing rear bumper that’s gorgeous along with unique tailpipe design exclusive to the variant. Give the leather seating contour pattern and leather covering pattern a design that’s unique to the variant. Don’t produce only 20 of them. Make it available to those who want it. Give it a real transmission instead of the antiquated 7G-Tronic. It would have pretty much everything standard.
16) Market the car’s performance. The SL63 should be a 7:30 Nurburgring car. The SL63 S should be a 7:15 Nurburgring car.
17) Give all engines mild hybrid technology for increased fuel economy and as a gesture to the tree huggers. Don’t waste time and resources with electrified variants with electric motors, weight, and complexity. They just do not belong. Stop it!
18) Do not price it out of the marketplace. Introduce it with prices fairly low and raise prices if necessary. Mercedes: you are an enormous billion dollar company. You can afford to break even or earn a few shekels with this and see how things go. This is about showing what you can do — not about adding to your bottom line. This isn’t an E-class. This is alimony payment which you can easily afford.

All this (and more) would have cost Mercedes-Benz far less than developing a completely new model. And the eventual result would have been amazing. Just amazing. Gain market share against Porsche? That’s difficult to do, but I think what I’ve described is a far better SL than the R232; and I think there are far more former SL owners who left the SL brand with R232 (and even with R231) than those whom the brand gained, or will gain, as new with R232.

Oh Mercedes: what you could have given us.

All told, I’m buying my second R231 SL63 this week. I want a spare because I’m accumulating some mileage on my first SL63. While there are many, many cars like the current R232 SL, there are absolutely NO CARS like the R231 AMG SL. And I am speaking as someone who has been fortunate and blessed to own the finest cars in the world for a very long time.

Streamliner

I come at this from a different viewpoint, but agree with most everything you say. I love my 2019 SL450 and have never once felt the need or desire for more power or speed. I have zero interest in super-duper “go fast” machines. That said—and as I have said here on numerous occasions—if only MB had taken the best attributes of the R231’s and built a much improved, luxury roadster around them, I would have been absolutely thrilled—and I believe the car buying public would have responded favorably.

Congratulations on your additional SL63 acquisition. Long live the magnificent R231!

348SStb

Thanks!

In April, 2018 I ordered a 2019 SL450; took delivery in September, 2018. I had already been an owner of my 2017 AMG SL63.

I really liked the 6cyl car. Good sound, ample power, smooth 9spd auto. I ordered it with ABC and a host of other options to $108,680. Great ride quality, curve function was amazing. Foolishly, I traded the car in May, 2019 for $81k (At the time I thought it was kind of a superfluous car in the stable.). Talk about stupid.

I’ve always wondered who owns it. A search of the VIN never returned a useful result.

Streamliner

As we both know, super rare cars, 450’s with ABC, but such an amazing combination. I truly believe that one of the biggest marketing mistakes MBUSA made, was to drop ABC as standard equipment on the non-AMG 231’s. Lots of folks coming out of great riding R230’s, we’re so disappointed when test driving the non-ABC 231’s. Oh well.

348SStb

I test drove a non-ABC SL450 prior to ordering mine. It’s a long time ago now but I don’t remember the ride being subpar. The non-ABC SLs do have adaptive damping suspensions (which are semi-active) - same type of thing most German luxury cars have now such as Porsche, Audi, BMW. I suppose what is lost is the uncanny elimination of body roll — but that principle has fallen out of favor with the know-it-all press writers and track journalists. They complain “the handling feels artificial” — well, it’s not artificial. It just handles that way. The latest viewpoint is that some body roll is desirable to maintain a “natural” feel. Nonsense. Anyone who says otherwise never owned a car with ABC. Impossible to dislike the system of driving a car that has one repetitively. Body roll on heavier cars should be eliminated if possible; and that was exactly the design goal of Mercedes when they finally introduced ABC in 1999 after years and years of research — and they achieved their goal.

Wolfman

Looking at convertible sales in the winter is meaningless and non conclusive.

I also find them a more difficult sell, but for different reasons that I stated earlier and to be fair, the R231 SL63 was an incredibly hard sell as well and that during the whole lifecycle of the model, not just the beginning.
Those cars could be had for 20% off anytime and used cars prices used to be worst…

Which was difficult to understand. I loved those SL’s but the 63 stood out for its lousy 7speed MCT transmission which was never updated to the much better performing 9 speed MCT at facelift time.

I think time will tell during the summer time once more properly spec’d 23 models are showing up, discounts off MSRP (which are available now) and MB contemplating to bring the smaller model here.

348SStb

What do you find lousy about the 7-spd MCT?

Porsche doesn’t seem to have trouble selling new convertibles this winter. There are 4 of them if any model posted on Autotrader .