SL55/63/65/R230 AMG: 2009 Vette ZR1 or 2009 Benz SL65???
#176
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#177
Senior Member
Publicity or not, lap times do not lie and reviewers are already saying that the standard GTR beats out the Z06. Not me, them, all of them.
But if you want to compare which one is the bigger vag magnet, I'm going for the SL. I've taken a number of girls from the firm to lunch in it and every one has literally and figuratively creamed over the Berry Red interior. I rely in my candor, style and Hugo Boss' latest threads in order to get girls, never my car. That point being that if you put ANY cross section of females in front of both an AMG SL and a 'Vette, they'll choose the SL every time.
But this part of this discussion is trivial to me. I would rather place energy on the premise of the thread.
#178
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#179
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'19 E63S, ‘16 CLS63 RIP, '09 E63 Gone, '06 M5 Gone, '97 Supra TT Gone
(Note: Z06 and not ZR1.) There is much controversy here that you do not acknowledge. A party for the GTR program ("Jan") apparently admitted that the Z used a standing start and the GTR used a flying start, which is now said to be common knowledge. Time starting discrepancies have now surfaced (and purportedly been admitted as well.) There was also controversy about wetter conditions and wet tires for one and not the other, etc. I'm promised more on this from those that say they know Jan personally, and I will relay this back here. You can always Google the topic for more. (Be mindful of the dates.)
.
.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=6594
This is a US Spec GTR with US Spec tires, and it RUINED the Z06 by 5 seconds on a 2 minute track. That is an eternity.
#180
Senior Member
Yet the Corvette still won't have a Benz interior. You do realize that having the same supplier doesn't = the same overall level of interior quality and finish?
If you need better interior, opt for the aftermarket Caravaggio enhancement to ZR1. One then still gets the better pricing for greater performance (than even 65 Black Series) and better interior. Then, guys like you can have your cake and eat it to. See?
![Wink](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
Last edited by c2jones; 05-01-2008 at 02:52 PM.
#181
Senior Member
Read this month's Road And Track.
#182
Senior Member
Likewise this grand excuse about a car being a performance car so it can get by with an interior that isn't any better than a Malibu doesn't wash either.
with this lie about me trying to gloss over them because of MB's interiors?
For the price of ZR1 and what its design intention is for, few can match the overall package, especially in terms of value. Its preference. That's the point. Nothing more.
Last edited by c2jones; 05-01-2008 at 02:36 PM.
#183
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'19 E63S, ‘16 CLS63 RIP, '09 E63 Gone, '06 M5 Gone, '97 Supra TT Gone
Like I said, be aware of the dates. The article you reference is old hat. It was covered long ago even in this very thread. There is much more updated feedback from those tests all over the place. If one had a standing start while the other was already in motion (which is said to be the very case, even admittedly from the GTR camp), then that "eternity" is not much at all, and favors the vette massively. Stay tuned.
![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
![smash](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smashfreak.gif)
Here's a quote from a GM board, one of your ilk:
The GT-R was fastest at the track by over 5 seconds, quickest through the slalom, posted best numbers on the skidpad and stopped the shortest from 60mph.
#184
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If you even try to debunk that I'm going to ram my head through my Bloomberg.
#185
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Also, MB is showing improvement in this area, the Corvette isn't. Other than wrapping everything in leather, what have they done about the overall build of the Corvette in general? Nothing, and that is where the Corvette (and your arguement) falls the pieces because Mercedes newest cars don't suffer from the same old problems, or at least they havent' so far.
I see nothing on a Benz that came from a Corvette, not speaking for the rest of the German brands at the moment, only Mercedes-Benz.
![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
You can't seem to remember what you've already acknowledged in previous posts. Typical GM excuse making syndrome.
Now here is where I think you're going senile because you've stated that SL65 and ZR-1 aren't the same type of car nor should they be compared, yet you're boasting about awards the ZR-1 might win over the SL65, thought SL65 won't even be in the running for them in the first place!
As I stated earlier in this thread, many see a novelty with the ZR1 as a collectible. This naturally will help its added value well into the future. Barrett Jackson Auctions states Corvette is king of the collectibles in volume and results. ZR1 will especially be the case.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymR4w...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku9e5...eature=related
This is beause you haven't a clue about what the 2 things mean. GM loyalist don't know squat about build quality because they haven't experience it, yet they're fooled into thinking that that a junk-rattle trap build of a car is reliable because it doesn't have a "mechanical issue". Yeah that is some definition of "quality".
Overall quality encompases all of these things, build quality and reliability.
In your world for 100K only peformance goes up, not the overall qualiy of the car like every other car maker on earth does it when they ask for a 100k for one of their cars.
![crazy](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/crazy.gif)
A 100K 911 is better built also, that is my point. What is your excuse there?
If that were the case you'd at the very least be able to admit the Corvette has its faults, some of them serious, in its own right, NOT relative to MB.
---Quote---ZR1, which is the premise here, has many advanced features that SL does not have.---End Quote---
Really like what?
Really like what?
![Wink](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
"service record" facts on the SL65 AMG to see if its "service record" is oh so terrible.
excuses and a rancid denial that GM's Corvette could possibly have some flaws. I'm gald you don't run GM, otherwise there would be no GM by now.
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
HAD, HAD, HAD, MB had fit and finish issues, the Corvette still does. Why is that so hard for you to grasp? Let me guess, its the 638hp. Fit and finish isn't MB's problem anymore. Again, you're using outdated information.
They Corvette has no choice but to be priced where it is because if were priced like other sports cars with similar peformance it wouldn't sell. Why? Because other aspects like the interior would come into play and people would be like "hell no" when they plop down and shut the plastic doors on the thing.
![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
the Corvette has improved
![EEK!](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif)
Are you really not capable of understanding that build quality and reliability aren't the same exact thing.
Precisely. I'll use your words again to counter your own words, well, again.
You are all the things you impose upon others and worse. Honestly.
A Corvette's overall quality is what is atrocious, besides it not breaking down...
![EEK!](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif)
its a mess of car with great performance.
(Corvette) A great sports car that suffers from an iffy build inside and out, but is priced right so it sells to people willing to overlook or simply don't know any better about it faults.
Last edited by c2jones; 05-01-2008 at 11:11 PM.
#186
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Then get ready. Because you're too caught up in that article and ignoring everything else, by your own pet desire at this point. Those mags come about a month early, in case you somehow missed that fact. You seem to have an emotional interest in the GTR and if that's the case, no degree of counterpoint will get through to you. Your mind is already made up. But I have more coming.
As far as my own emotions go, you can check my history here and see that I am as impartial as it gets. I drive an M5 and I'm accepted here by my AMG peers. I have a Supra that shoots enough fire to have a cookout for all of our east coast members. I've also had a good amount of seat time in a C6 Z06 and even more time in a Lingenfelter C5. I know my CARS, not just one marque and I will eternally call a spade a spade.
One thing I do know is that skidpad numbers do not lie. Slalom numbers do not lie, and any way you try to manipulate the numbers coming from virtually every car reviewer out there, the fact still stands that the Z06 has been unseated as the king of the trackday cars according to virtually every media source available, and the soon-to-be ZR-1 isn't going to fare much better against the V-Spec except in a straight line.
P.S.- Thanks for shouting me out in your 'Vette forum.
Last edited by Cylinder Head; 05-01-2008 at 02:37 PM.
#187
Senior Member
You've brought nothing to the table so far except conjecture
and continue to rant endlessly to an audience that has by and large condemned what you've been saying.
And if condemnation ruled the day and accuracy was limited to who was agreed with us in these forums, then everyone, including you, would find reason succumbing to mob rules. Copernicus, Bruno and Galileo were condemned, too. The masses are asses. Nothing redeeming in that. I prefer courage and aptitude, balance and composure to childish attacks and romper room antics.
And as far as some here, their critiques are of little matter to me and even enhance me in some way. If mentalities like that are the measuring stick, then I'm just fine where I'm at. Like rabid dogs, the mob rules by gang warfare. This does not make them right and the immaturity always takes center stage.
We should be able to interact and share perspectives and gain from this without the antics. This thread is supposed to be about a totally different topic than the GTR. But, lacking a true MB competitor for the ZR1, GTR comes into the mix here, like a fever that's running rampant everywhere.
I merely said that there was more to the story than that article and that remains so. Gathering things now.
#188
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When I got the Z06, I got it for a whollllle bunch of reasons.
1) Price: I got it for $8,000 under sticker.
2) Looks: The thing looks like the batmobile and I love how sinister and exotic it is. The widebody on the Z06 is pretty menacing.
3) 7 Liters: Once again, just badass. A 427 V8 thundering down the highway does it for me.
4) Moddability: Believe it or not, the Z06 in it's n/a form can be modded into a complete street animal.
5) Chicas: Girls dig it. It definitely gets their approval.
![naughty](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/naughty.gif)
6) Fellas: Guys are jealous as hell and idolize me.
7) Manual: I want to own a manual transmission car at least once in my life.
8) Raw: It was a pretty big contrast from my old Mercedes. I wanted something pretty hardcore that I could beatup day and night. I could've gotten an AMG or a used M6...but this thing is an experience.
9) Drivability: Not gonna lie, this thing is much softer and civil than I expected. I knew I needed a car that I could drive anywhere, but my expectations were greatly exceeded. This thing is just about as livable as an SL.
10) It's so me...
With all that said, maybe once I get this out of my system I'll go for a Maz GranTurismo...or if I'm still obsessed with speed (yeah, that's a definite yes) then I'll get a used 997TT and turbo swap it or I'll get the GT-R V-spec and create a Skyline that Paul Walker would be proud of.
#189
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'19 E63S, ‘16 CLS63 RIP, '09 E63 Gone, '06 M5 Gone, '97 Supra TT Gone
I'm glad to see Nissan is doing it right with this car...wow
When I got the Z06, I got it for a whollllle bunch of reasons.
1) Price: I got it for $8,000 under sticker.
2) Looks: The thing looks like the batmobile and I love how sinister and exotic it is. The widebody on the Z06 is pretty menacing.
3) 7 Liters: Once again, just badass. A 427 V8 thundering down the highway does it for me.
4) Moddability: Believe it or not, the Z06 in it's n/a form can be modded into a complete street animal.
5) Chicas: Girls dig it. It definitely gets their approval.![naughty](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/naughty.gif)
6) Fellas: Guys are jealous as hell and idolize me.
7) Manual: I want to own a manual transmission car at least once in my life.
8) Raw: It was a pretty big contrast from my old Mercedes. I wanted something pretty hardcore that I could beatup day and night. I could've gotten an AMG or a used M6...but this thing is an experience.
9) Drivability: Not gonna lie, this thing is much softer and civil than I expected. I knew I needed a car that I could drive anywhere, but my expectations were greatly exceeded. This thing is just about as livable as an SL.
10) It's so me...
With all that said, maybe once I get this out of my system I'll go for a Maz GranTurismo...or if I'm still obsessed with speed (yeah, that's a definite yes) then I'll get a used 997TT and turbo swap it or I'll get the GT-R V-spec and create a Skyline that Paul Walker would be proud of.
When I got the Z06, I got it for a whollllle bunch of reasons.
1) Price: I got it for $8,000 under sticker.
2) Looks: The thing looks like the batmobile and I love how sinister and exotic it is. The widebody on the Z06 is pretty menacing.
3) 7 Liters: Once again, just badass. A 427 V8 thundering down the highway does it for me.
4) Moddability: Believe it or not, the Z06 in it's n/a form can be modded into a complete street animal.
5) Chicas: Girls dig it. It definitely gets their approval.
![naughty](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/naughty.gif)
6) Fellas: Guys are jealous as hell and idolize me.
7) Manual: I want to own a manual transmission car at least once in my life.
8) Raw: It was a pretty big contrast from my old Mercedes. I wanted something pretty hardcore that I could beatup day and night. I could've gotten an AMG or a used M6...but this thing is an experience.
9) Drivability: Not gonna lie, this thing is much softer and civil than I expected. I knew I needed a car that I could drive anywhere, but my expectations were greatly exceeded. This thing is just about as livable as an SL.
10) It's so me...
With all that said, maybe once I get this out of my system I'll go for a Maz GranTurismo...or if I'm still obsessed with speed (yeah, that's a definite yes) then I'll get a used 997TT and turbo swap it or I'll get the GT-R V-spec and create a Skyline that Paul Walker would be proud of.
And C2, I could give two *****s in a sewer whether or not you're disappointed. Half of what you type harkens to rhetoric from HBO's John Adams. There's no need to speak like a colonial here in order for people to think you're smart. Smart people back things up with data and facts, still waiting for something concrete from you.
Last edited by Cylinder Head; 05-01-2008 at 03:46 PM.
#190
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![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Sorry for de-railing this thread. c2jones and germancarfan, continue your essays.
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'19 E63S, ‘16 CLS63 RIP, '09 E63 Gone, '06 M5 Gone, '97 Supra TT Gone
Edit: Nope, C2 is busy over on his 'Vette forum looking for ways to deflate my factual argument about the GTR's performance. Apparently I'm threatening the GM bubble they live in.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...p?p=1565247408
Last edited by Cylinder Head; 05-01-2008 at 03:56 PM.
#192
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We need an admin to come in, read the thread, and grade everyone. Hope I make it over the bell curve. Too bad C2 isn't citing his sources.
Edit: Nope, C2 is busy over on his 'Vette forum looking for ways to deflate my factual argument about the GTR's performance. Apparently I'm threatening the GM bubble they live in.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...p?p=1565247408
Edit: Nope, C2 is busy over on his 'Vette forum looking for ways to deflate my factual argument about the GTR's performance. Apparently I'm threatening the GM bubble they live in.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...p?p=1565247408
![crazy](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/crazy.gif)
#193
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'19 E63S, ‘16 CLS63 RIP, '09 E63 Gone, '06 M5 Gone, '97 Supra TT Gone
What's his issue? Of course the interior of a Vette isn't going to measure up to an MB or BMW...I don't think any Vette owner would argue that! The quality is excellent for such a cheap sports car though, but it should not be compared to an SL and it never was meant to...![crazy](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/crazy.gif)
![crazy](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/crazy.gif)
#194
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We need an admin to come in, read the thread, and grade everyone. Hope I make it over the bell curve.
Too bad C2 isn't citing his sources.
There are other tests due soon, but I'm looking to post an excerpt about the testing driver's comments on the day. The Corvettes drivers do confirm that the Nissans used flying starts. I'm not bashing anything here.
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
looking for ways to deflate my factual argument about the GTR's performance. Apparently I'm threatening the GM bubble they live in.
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Last edited by c2jones; 05-01-2008 at 04:26 PM.
#195
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'19 E63S, ‘16 CLS63 RIP, '09 E63 Gone, '06 M5 Gone, '97 Supra TT Gone
I'm getting so many PM's that I trying to decipher what to use. As I had stated earlier, apparently there is great controversy about the flying starts (of the Nissan) compared to the standing starts of the Corvettes, as well as other factors. As to eliminate commentary to what is more credible, I'm simply sorting through them. No big deal there. There is no grand conspiracy or nothing. I just said that the jury is still out here as both makes claim they are developing the cars, not necessarily making a case about the best speeds.
Yeah, me too.
#196
Senior Member
Of course the interior of a Vette isn't going to measure up to an MB or BMW...I don't think any Vette owner would argue that! The quality is excellent for such a cheap sports car though, but it should not be compared to an SL and it never was meant to.
I disagreed with this notion. Corvette interiors may not be that of MB, but MB is a luxury car and more is expected of it, naturally. Still, to many Corvette owners, their interiors are quite fine with them and they have no misgivings with it. This is their rightful choice. Regarding ZR1, the package is quite extensive for what one gets for the price. Advanced composites handmade (panels, engines) and technology mirrored and licensed from makes costing many times as much. I have relayed all this here.
Finally, if one requires an upgraded interior, Caravaggio will be quick to accommodate, and the total price will still be less than the SL65 (and more fittingly Black Series) for which this thread was originated about.
Few here regard the two cars in the same market, but if one is choosing between them for whatever their reasons are, this came of discussion here. (This GTR thing is well off the topic.) The focus became quality and fit and finish, and reliability and value.
I know its a lengthy read, but all this was covered here and a simple review will illustrate this.
#197
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Excerpts
NOTE: Apologies to everyone for the ![off topic](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/ot.gif)
Background:
Corvette drivers Jan Magnussen and Jonny O'Connell reported their testing experiences at Nürburgring. The differential in starts is surfacing in several places; people close to this situation are saying this. I am not claiming this is substantiated, only that there is some controversy and confirmation has come from some of those same magazine sources. (More to come on this.)
ZR1 test-Wet track, engineer driving with a passenger and a standing start all the way to the finish line. GM always does a standing start.
Excerpt:
"Mr. Shoemacker who runs the Ring told GM this is how it's done. When the calibrations are complete, you will see full laps run at race pace. That's when Jan or Johnny O will start lapping.
The Z06 was also done this way (after the original Jan fast lap). There are now export rear shocks for Europe. Don't be surprised to see Jan or Johnny O give the Z06 another try. The 7:42 was done from a standing start (I know this for a 100% fact).
The fact that Nissan decided to use a flying start was done on their own accord. If Jan or Johnny 0 tries to improve on the 7:42, it will be done from a standing start, then they might just do a lap with a flying start just to prove the Z06 is faster around the ring than the GT-R’s 7:38.
One more thing, if you look at the weather for the last 2 weeks they would have been lucky to get 2 or 3 days of dry track. Next week doesn’t look good either, but if it is, believe me, the engineers will be working hard to complete the car in preparation for Jan or Johnny.
My guess, you will see times in the low 7:30’s or high 7:20’s JMO. Whether GM decides to use a standing start (common practice) or a flying stare (Nissan practice) will remained to be seen. But because of all the controversy from the Z06 lap times, I’ll bet they will be crystal clear with proof on how the lap was run."
Sport Auto lap time comparisons:
Ferrari F430 F1: 7:55 seconds (supertest)
Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano: 7:47 seconds (supertest)
Porsche 997 911 Turbo : 7:54 seconds (supertest)
Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z06: 7:49 seconds (supertest)
Ford GT:7:52 seconds (supertest)
Nissan GTR: 7:50 seconds (Fahrberichte)
In German, but the numbers work:
http://www.sportauto-online.de/test_...8540_14469.hbs
There are pictures that show the difference. (They are rather big, but I will see about posting them here. They're from the GTR thread in a Corvette Forum.) Also, its been said that Car and Driver editor Larry Webster confirmed a standing start full lap is indeed what he had been told by GM. And flying start by Nissan.
Some propose that Nissan followed the Sport Auto procedure because it nets them a better time. Nissan went around to different publications and asked for the specifics of how they ran their testing then in effect sought to test to match. Road and Track bragged in a recent issue that Nissan asked them for the specific measurements of their slalom test. As has been noted in a number of media outlets, Sport Auto's test driver was a guest at Nissan's lapping sessions. The resulting video was done to match Sport Auto's testing procedure which necessarily involves flying start partial laps because Sport Auto cannot afford to routinely close the track for testing. On public days the driving rules are strict and must be adhered to. (Again, more on this soon.)
The Ring. yet, inevitably, the mags will do subsequent follow ups.
![off topic](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/ot.gif)
Background:
Corvette drivers Jan Magnussen and Jonny O'Connell reported their testing experiences at Nürburgring. The differential in starts is surfacing in several places; people close to this situation are saying this. I am not claiming this is substantiated, only that there is some controversy and confirmation has come from some of those same magazine sources. (More to come on this.)
ZR1 test-Wet track, engineer driving with a passenger and a standing start all the way to the finish line. GM always does a standing start.
Excerpt:
"Mr. Shoemacker who runs the Ring told GM this is how it's done. When the calibrations are complete, you will see full laps run at race pace. That's when Jan or Johnny O will start lapping.
The Z06 was also done this way (after the original Jan fast lap). There are now export rear shocks for Europe. Don't be surprised to see Jan or Johnny O give the Z06 another try. The 7:42 was done from a standing start (I know this for a 100% fact).
The fact that Nissan decided to use a flying start was done on their own accord. If Jan or Johnny 0 tries to improve on the 7:42, it will be done from a standing start, then they might just do a lap with a flying start just to prove the Z06 is faster around the ring than the GT-R’s 7:38.
One more thing, if you look at the weather for the last 2 weeks they would have been lucky to get 2 or 3 days of dry track. Next week doesn’t look good either, but if it is, believe me, the engineers will be working hard to complete the car in preparation for Jan or Johnny.
My guess, you will see times in the low 7:30’s or high 7:20’s JMO. Whether GM decides to use a standing start (common practice) or a flying stare (Nissan practice) will remained to be seen. But because of all the controversy from the Z06 lap times, I’ll bet they will be crystal clear with proof on how the lap was run."
Sport Auto lap time comparisons:
Ferrari F430 F1: 7:55 seconds (supertest)
Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano: 7:47 seconds (supertest)
Porsche 997 911 Turbo : 7:54 seconds (supertest)
Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z06: 7:49 seconds (supertest)
Ford GT:7:52 seconds (supertest)
Nissan GTR: 7:50 seconds (Fahrberichte)
In German, but the numbers work:
http://www.sportauto-online.de/test_...8540_14469.hbs
If you have any evidence about these flying starts on the 'ring then I'll listen, but the fact is that both cars were given a standing start in R&T's test
Some propose that Nissan followed the Sport Auto procedure because it nets them a better time. Nissan went around to different publications and asked for the specifics of how they ran their testing then in effect sought to test to match. Road and Track bragged in a recent issue that Nissan asked them for the specific measurements of their slalom test. As has been noted in a number of media outlets, Sport Auto's test driver was a guest at Nissan's lapping sessions. The resulting video was done to match Sport Auto's testing procedure which necessarily involves flying start partial laps because Sport Auto cannot afford to routinely close the track for testing. On public days the driving rules are strict and must be adhered to. (Again, more on this soon.)
Are you referring to the 'Ring times or to R&T's times.
#198
Senior Member
Another excerpt:
"GM does a standing atart as standard practice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOtAouKf_A0
GM standing start Cobalt SS with Heinricy driving.
GTR does indeed do a FLYING start from the VIDEO:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uGe_fyhQazg
On the GTR video, look at where the clock stops for the 7:38 time. Now go back to the start of the video from approximately 1 or 1:01 to 1:06 or 1:07 would be the time to add that skipped portion of track back. How much time did the GTR save by not running the pit stretch? No need to wonder, look at the VIDEO. Check the gap from 1:01 - 1:07. To compare it to Jan's one can at least reason that the Z06 should at least be able to make that section of the run just as quickly.
The GTR was timed with a rolling start that ended about 100 feet from where it began. Time starts right before they dip in the first left hander and end right after laps last right hand turn, leaving the whole Tier13 out of the measurement! That is 6-7 sec. difference compared to measure start and stop from the same spot.
Note the time taken to cover the distance from the video time 1:01 to 1:07. Use the blue wall on the right for reference as it appears during that time. That is the vehicle's run up to the start which occurs at 1:07 at the end of that short stretch of road. If you watch the video you will note something interesting. After the car exits the pits 1:01 it blasts down to the timing traps. This takes it approximately five seconds to camera freeze at 1:06. For reference, note the blue portion of the wall to the right of the car from 1:01-1:06. If you watch closely, the car really trips the trap at 1:07 because at 1:06 it hasn't actually reached the lights.
Now fast forward to the end of the video and watch for the video freeze where they put up the 7:38 time on screen, it's at 8:49 on the video. You would think that would be back at the end of that short stretch which is where they started. But if you look to the right you will see that the blue wall has, again, only just started. The video does not end at the 1:07 start point but at the 1:01 run up to the start point. Yes the GTR started in one place and then finished in another!
At the end of the run they stop the clock not back at the timing traps which are at the end of that stretch marked by the blue portion of the wall on the right at 1:01 - 1:06 but the instant the car hits the beginning of that short stretch 8:48. Did the video stop with the freeze frame 7:38:54 before they got into the timing light?
They start time just before left hander at Tier13, and end time, just after last right hander back into Tier13, taking out 400-500 feet. They had speed going into the start timer!!
Jan`s drive @ 7.42 is even more impressive! What if the Z had Sport Cups? According to Walter Rohrl, Porsche saw an eight second improvement from 7:50 to 7:42 from standard tires to the sport tires with a 997 Turbo at the Ring. If the same improvement was noted on a Z that would imply a 7:35 lap!
The hydroforming technique which gave the Corvette its singular strength was investigated by no less than Boeing which journeyed to the Corvette plant to witness it themselves and inquire as to how they could adapt the technique as used in the Z06/ZR1 for the assembly of aircraft."
"GM does a standing atart as standard practice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOtAouKf_A0
GM standing start Cobalt SS with Heinricy driving.
GTR does indeed do a FLYING start from the VIDEO:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uGe_fyhQazg
On the GTR video, look at where the clock stops for the 7:38 time. Now go back to the start of the video from approximately 1 or 1:01 to 1:06 or 1:07 would be the time to add that skipped portion of track back. How much time did the GTR save by not running the pit stretch? No need to wonder, look at the VIDEO. Check the gap from 1:01 - 1:07. To compare it to Jan's one can at least reason that the Z06 should at least be able to make that section of the run just as quickly.
The GTR was timed with a rolling start that ended about 100 feet from where it began. Time starts right before they dip in the first left hander and end right after laps last right hand turn, leaving the whole Tier13 out of the measurement! That is 6-7 sec. difference compared to measure start and stop from the same spot.
Note the time taken to cover the distance from the video time 1:01 to 1:07. Use the blue wall on the right for reference as it appears during that time. That is the vehicle's run up to the start which occurs at 1:07 at the end of that short stretch of road. If you watch the video you will note something interesting. After the car exits the pits 1:01 it blasts down to the timing traps. This takes it approximately five seconds to camera freeze at 1:06. For reference, note the blue portion of the wall to the right of the car from 1:01-1:06. If you watch closely, the car really trips the trap at 1:07 because at 1:06 it hasn't actually reached the lights.
Now fast forward to the end of the video and watch for the video freeze where they put up the 7:38 time on screen, it's at 8:49 on the video. You would think that would be back at the end of that short stretch which is where they started. But if you look to the right you will see that the blue wall has, again, only just started. The video does not end at the 1:07 start point but at the 1:01 run up to the start point. Yes the GTR started in one place and then finished in another!
At the end of the run they stop the clock not back at the timing traps which are at the end of that stretch marked by the blue portion of the wall on the right at 1:01 - 1:06 but the instant the car hits the beginning of that short stretch 8:48. Did the video stop with the freeze frame 7:38:54 before they got into the timing light?
They start time just before left hander at Tier13, and end time, just after last right hander back into Tier13, taking out 400-500 feet. They had speed going into the start timer!!
Jan`s drive @ 7.42 is even more impressive! What if the Z had Sport Cups? According to Walter Rohrl, Porsche saw an eight second improvement from 7:50 to 7:42 from standard tires to the sport tires with a 997 Turbo at the Ring. If the same improvement was noted on a Z that would imply a 7:35 lap!
The hydroforming technique which gave the Corvette its singular strength was investigated by no less than Boeing which journeyed to the Corvette plant to witness it themselves and inquire as to how they could adapt the technique as used in the Z06/ZR1 for the assembly of aircraft."
Last edited by c2jones; 05-01-2008 at 05:44 PM.
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'04 SL55,'07 S550,'06 E55
c2
c2 loves his vette lets leave it at that i tried arguing earlier he said something about MB build quality being bad and then i asked why he owned one then, everyone is entitles to their own opinion, if you ask me, i love chevy and their build quality so much that i ended up buying these...the corvette may be a rocketship in a straightline but thats about it Ill be an MB'er for life theyre the kings of the road.....Call me a snob but an MB has status that a corvette will never have
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Last edited by DannyM383; 05-01-2008 at 11:06 PM.