SL2003driver

You are running with the wrong crowd if these are the perceptions

c2jones

Those perceptions don't come from the crowd I run with. There is no such "crowd" aspect with me. Instead, simply observing discussions at racetracks, online forums, carmeets, autoshows, and to the bulk of people whom have owned and appreciate many cars (MB's and Corvettes alike) that speak their minds on the topic - and these people have been around for years - this is a common perception. Again, I don't author or embrace such perceptions. That's clearly beneath me.

From someone whom has admittedly "always enjoyed pokin sticks," and somehow not see this as trivial if not juvenile, I hope you're not barking up the tree again. You had inferred a farewell. Good luck to you.

ItalianStallion

This Redneck has gotten hotter p**** in his Vette than you could ever dream of getting. But, hey, you can believe anything you want....if you see a badass Vette rolling by with a beautiful babe in the passenger side, it's fine to make yourself feel better by thinking: "Uhhhh, that guys got a small *****. Yeah....."

Also, aren't you a little old to be comparing dick sizes? (like that's not gay enough) You're fricken over the hill and more than double my age, you probably gotta OD on Viagra to even get it up. Grow up dude.

transferred

Bobbi goes all in

Cylinder Head

iTrader: (1)

I've never seen the kid throw his hat into the ring with such fervor. Makes me prowd.

And to clear something up, it's Vette guys who are usually accused of being in a "mid-life crisis", ferrari guys of having small *****, BMW and Merc guys of being pompous a$$holes and guys who drive Porsche Boxsters are guilty of all of the above.

Has anybody mentioned the GTR V-spec? The car that's going to hand the ZR1 its own ***** in a martini glass? More tech? Same power? Same advanced materials? Better interior? All-season capability? Ridiculous 'Ring times?

ItalianStallion

Thanks Sky LOL...

And um...you know what they say, no replacement for displacement! *runs and hides*...but yeah, I can only imagine what a hurting the V-spec will put on the whole automotive scene. Like Porsche hasn't been beaten up enough...just wait till the that chunky Nissan kicks the super-exotic Carrera GT and track-monster GT2 off the Nurburgring . I'm waiting for that V-spec...I can so see that in my future

SL2003driver

no everyone is busy thumpin chests and talkin trash. personally im jus tryin to get my post count up

Cylinder Head

iTrader: (1)

That's what happens when you compare apples to oranges. I've been driving around a K2 SL55 for a few weeks now and I can safely say there is no comparison between it and a Vette. It's a pure GT, that's what it does best. It looks good and it drives far comfortably (arguably so, I hate the seats). It's also fast, but I'd never take it 10/10ths because of its ponderous handling and numb brakes.

These cars are so different there is absolutely no base of comparison. But if you want to compare which one is the bigger vag magnet, I'm going for the SL. I've taken a number of girls from the firm to lunch in it and every one has literally and figuratively creamed over the Berry Red interior.

SL2003driver

Agreed if you like class with your *** the MB is the way to go. If you want a nascar girl buy the vette

c2jones

Nope. No one's brought that up yet. (Facetiously.)

c2jones

Why all the question marks?

Personally, and I'm not alone, I feel that ZR1 will still have this decision when the smoke clears. Nissan has been using some very controversial testing mechanisms which to some, imply they're reaching for something. They have found exactly what they're reaching for, too. Publicity over their product: to get the buzz going towards orders and rack up the sales. But will it actually outperform ZR1? Only time will tell.

The GTR will appeal more to the younger (pro-Japanese) market. I have not had an Asian car since my Supra. Sure hope the rumors are true of Toyota bringing this back. That Toyota V8 (from Pikes Peak to IMSA DP to Nascar) has been superb.

This has been well acknowledged. The SL65 Black Series, which is duplicating the same carbon fiber composites of ZR1, is the more applicable match, if any. But there is no stock MB that can match ZR1 without paying at least twice to three times or more the price for doing so, and even then, fall short.

Finally, if one is simply looking to "impress girls" with their cars instead of themselves, then this defines the point I've been making here. (This thread went from an intellectual marvel to a petty singles bar.) Those types should get the MB if that's their mode. They need all the help they can get. ZR1 is for men who don't need their cars to do the talking. Many regard SL's as girl's cars (not my words) because they're nice and composed to drive, like all MB's. Heck, Paris Hilton had an SLR! Could you picture her handling a ZR1? Precisely.

Germancar1

Wow, amazing. You managed to find a press release that detailed the interior of the ZR-1 and it reads like the lamest thing I've yet read here. Again I ask what is the difference between the ZR-1 and the regular Corvettes? You point to some new badges and some lame mess about "The ZR1's interior builds on the brand's dual-cockpit heritage, with high-quality materials, craftsmanship and functionality that support the premium-quality experience promised by the car's performance".

Pure marketing machine nonsense from GM. According to them everything they've ever built was the best and utmost in quality.

I can't believe that you actually think that these things address the basic problem with the Corvette's interior, that has poor build quality and lousy seats. Power adjustable leather seats? Dude I asked you for the differences between the standard Vette and the ZR-1. In case you can't comprehend what I'm asking, I'm asking for the upgrades that makes the interior worthy of the 100K asking price. We know the performance is going to be kick ***, but I'm talking about the build of the car. My arrogance is shocking, your ignorance is even more shocking. You really believe that adding some logos and some features found on GM cars that cost half as much make the Corvette worthy of a 100K pricetag? I'm talking about build quality, not the gee-whiz, distracting junk like head up displays.

GM doesn't have to lose sleep over me not getting one, they're already losing sleep over the 3.2B USD they lost in the first 3 months of this year!



Not true. There are some GM products that I feel are darn good. The Corvette is one of them, aside from its interior. The Pontiac G8, GMC Arcadia, Saturn Aura, Chevy Malibu, and some others are really nice now. What I don't like is all the excuse making that has been going on for years and years...which is why they've come damn close to going out of business. Can't you see that? All of the excuse making nearly killed them, yet it still goes on here like nothing has happened. This is the problem with GM and their fans, they'll make excuses until GM has to turn out the lights. Thankfully GM is finally seeing the light with some of their newer offerings and the excuses aren't needed for those offerings.

To say that adding badges and other window dressing changes the interior of the ZR-1 is the most ridiculous thing I've yet read here. Typical GM excuse maker's mindset. That leather/sunroof/CD player crowd that doesn't know a thing about real quality. Stuffing a bunch of features into an interior that isn't any better than a CTS (that costs less than half as much) doesn't make it an upgrade as far as quality concerned. Aside from some extra bells and whistles the ZR-1 is going to have the same slap-dash interior of any other Corvette, your feeble proves this by pointing out how many extra logos and a boost gauge. Come back and let me know when Chevy actually decides to put in a quality interior from the start, before they add all the junk to impress long-time GM loyal/apologists. The Corvette's appointments are only "fine" to people who don't know what "fine" is.


M

Germancar1

Interesting. Yet the Corvette still won't have a Benz interior. You do realize that having the same supplier doesn't = the same overall level of interior quality and finish? The STS-V has the same supplier and yet its interior doesn't match an E63 or CLS63 AMG either. Motor Trend, Car and Driver and others have pointed this out over and over. Hell anyone that isn't a GM excuse maker can see this. Same thing with the XLR-V, same supplier as MB and yet the SL's interior trounces it in every automotive source you can find. Why is that?

The supplier in question is only supplying GM with the basics like the leather finish and stitching, not the entire interior or its final assembly or design. I know this will be impossible for you to understand because you've found this about the supplier. This isn't news to me, Cadillac made a big deal about it with the STS-V only to have the same old complaints about GM's interior being cheap come right back. Just because you get your interior from the same supplier doesn't mean you're getting the same quality of the finished product in other makes that use the same supplier. You can change the leather and other small details all day long, but the underlying interior, the base from which all of the upgrading begins, is still the same old cheap GM practice. New leather and fancy stitching doesn't change this.

Please don't try to suggest that a Corvette's interior is on part with a Bugatti or anything else of the ilk because any sane person knows it isn't. It isn't even close.

M

Germancar1

Likewise this grand excuse about a car being a performance car so it can get by with an interior that isn't any better than a Malibu doesn't wash either. Now how many times are you going to bring up this about MB's quality problems with this lie about me trying to gloss over them because of MB's interiors? Did you not read and agree with my post about MB's problems? Again, for the umpteenth time...FORGET MERCEDES-BENZ, they aren't sports cars. PORSCHE builds sports cars and for 100K it feels like one inside and out so again...please address this. It has nothing to do with Mercedes-Benz. If Porsche, now Audi and others can build a 100K sports car with awesome performance with an interior to match it, why can't Chevy?

No need to go into what the 2 camps think about each other. I've read through the entire thread this morning. Your either white trash or a pamperd dummy depending on which side of the fence you're one, neither connotation or stereotype I agree with BTW. Shocked you didn't I...lol!


Your basic premise has never stood. Secondly my defense of MB's quality problems was for one reason, it hasn't been the norm for them. They wrote the book on quality before dropping the ball. I never, ever said that reliability didn't matter because of the rest of the car. You on the other hand refuse to even admit that a car like a Corvette, besides its performance, simply isn't worthy of a 100K price. You'll go on and on about how it will perform, yet the interior doesn't match the look and feel of a much cheaper GM car. This is the same thing as my trying to deny or downplay MB's reliability issues. Also, MB is showing improvement in this area, the Corvette isn't. Other than wrapping everything in leather, what have they done about the overall build of the Corvette in general? Nothing, and that is where the Corvette (and your arguement) falls the pieces because Mercedes newest cars don't suffer from the same old problems, or at least they havent' so far.

Yes you are. One gets a whole lot of performance for that price, the rest of the car simply isn't worthy of a 100K pricetag. Period.

Correct and it does pass, but this statement tells me that you're ok with a Malibu steering wheel and seats so flimsy they're laughable. Again, nothing but a nicely cloaked excuse from you.


Really? I must have forgetton what they are. I see nothing on a Benz that came from a Corvette, not speaking for the rest of the German brands at the moment, only Mercedes-Benz.

As do you, with a slight case of senility. You can't seem to remember what you've already acknowledged in previous posts. Typical GM excuse making syndrome.

So what? Now here is where I think you're going senile because you've stated that SL65 and ZR-1 aren't the same type of car nor should they be compared, yet you're boasting about awards the ZR-1 might win over the SL65, thought SL65 won't even be in the running for them in the first place! Again, lame, hypocritical argument.

What is even weaker is tolerating a car that has the build quality of a cobalt because it is fast and can hustle on a track. Man is that lame and simple minded.

They haven't change the fundamentals behind the build of the car, only some extra window dressing to make you think it has been all of sudden worth of a 100K price.

Yes they are, thankfully.

Try to stay current. This has been greatly improved. Tell me have the seats in the Corvette been brought up to CTS standards yet or are they still elcheapo?


True, very true. This still doesn't get GM off the hook with a 100K car. Nor is it just the Corvette that has this problem it is also the high-end Cadillacs too. They simply don't feel like 100K cars, but most GM diehards don't know anything about this, thus we have you. Denial and excuse for as long as the day is long.


This is beause you haven't a clue about what the 2 things mean. GM loyalist don't know squat about build quality because they haven't experience it, yet they're fooled into thinking that that a junk-rattle trap build of a car is reliable because it doesn't have a "mechanical issue". Yeah that is some definition of "quality". Overall quality encompases all of these things, build quality and reliability. If I'm making an excuse (which I'm not) about reliability, you're doing the same thing when it comes to build quality. There is no difference here, same boat different decks.



This right here hides your excuse because it is the prelude to your grandest excuse of all "the GM product cost less", yet we're talking about 100K car not a Aveo. In your world for 100K only peformance goes up, not the overall qualiy of the car like every other car maker on earth does it when they ask for a 100k for one of their cars.


BUILD QUALITY. Those features you speak of don't cost anything in a Corvette for a company like GM that can spread those cost out. Performance wise no one will compare a Boxster with a Corvette, I'm speaking of the build quality. A 100K 911 is better built also, that is my point. What is your excuse there?


The only Benz that still has an issue with this is the current CLK. The C, CLS, S, CL, SL, E and others have all been either redesigned or facelifted since Mercedes' darkest years. Reliabilty wise the Bama made models still have problems, the ML, GL and R.

Time to turn the record over because your weak repition of the same thing doesn't really apply like it did a few years ago.


Could have fooled me. You make excuse like the best of them. The same ones that can't understand why millions have stopped buying and literally refuse to even consider their products.

If that were the case you'd at the very least be able to admit the Corvette has its faults, some of the serious, in its own right, NOT relative to MB.


I see too. We'll accept ****-poor build quality and a cheap, plastic ambiance because the Corvette can fly down the road and post great times on the track. Clear enough to me. Built like junk, but reliable so that makes it ok. Got it.


Really like what?

Really and these materials have what to do with the interior of the Corvette? Not talking about the body, but the interior.


I love this about its "service record" and speculation, while you're doing the same thing...speculating. I'll be awaiting your "service record" facts on the SL65 AMG to see if its "service record" is oh so terrible.


Of course some are, but I'M NOT. I don't speak for any other MB owner here, only myself.


Likewise you're part of the reason why GM is losing billions of dollars in a single quarter. Excuses, excuses, excuses and a rancid denial that GM's Corvette could possibly have some flaws. I'm gald you don't run GM, otherwise there would be no GM by now.

HAD, HAD, HAD, MB had fit and finish issues, the Corvette still does. Why is that so hard for you to grasp? Let me guess, its the 638hp. Fit and finish isn't MB's problem anymore. Again, you're using outdated information.


Hell they couldn't if they wanted to. Other than some of their newer cars it is all they can do is the make it cheaper to get someone, anyone to buy. They Corvette has no choice but to be priced where it is because if were priced like other sports cars with similar peformance it wouldn't sell. Why? Because other aspects like the interior would come into play and people would be like "hell no" when they plop down and shut the plastic doors on the thing.

True, and the latter shouldn't have build quality that doesn't match lesser GM cars. Great performance doesn't excuse iffy build quality.

True more is expected of MB, no argument from me there. Now watch you continue to say I'm making excuses. Uh..the Corvette has improved but it was so far below standard it still has plenty of ways to go.


What part of "service record" doesn't = build quality don't you get? Are you really not capable of understanding that build quality and reliability aren't the same exact thing. A Corvette's overall quality is what is Atrocious, besides it not breaking down its a mess of car with great performance.


So what that isn't what is being argued here. Performance isn't in quality. I don't care about BMW at the moment.


Likewise I appreciate those same things, but you're making far to many excuses for a car that simply doesn't cut it here beyond its performance. I like the Corvette actually, but I see it for what it is. A great sports car that suffers from an iffy build inside and out, but is priced right so it sells to people willing to overlook or simply don't know any better about it faults.

M

Cylinder Head

iTrader: (1)

Test mules are already shattering 'Ring records and power levels are said to be equivalent to the ZR-1's with half the displacement. Not to mention the reduced weight and even further use of technology in the V-Spec will almost certainly put it on a pedestal over the "Just add power" formula that suits GM so well. You can't possibly argue to me that GM's own skunkworks has better tech than Lotus, Cosworth and Nissan who went all-in to build the GTR. If they do they surely haven't shown it, the Vette is still a blunt instrument. Publicity or not, lap times do not lie and reviewers are already saying that the standard GTR beats out the Z06. Not me, them, all of them.


You're assuming a lot from my statement, which was very measured and essentially an ownage trap that I set, and you dropped your clouded judgement right into it. I didn't, haven't, and won't ever use a car to pick up a girl. The SL was parked far in the rear of my company's lot before it was even a twinkle in these girls' eyes. I rely in my candor, style and Hugo Boss' latest threads in order to get girls, never my car.

You missed my point entirely in order to further your own blabbering agenda. That point being that if you put ANY cross section of females in front of both an AMG SL and a 'Vette, they'll choose the SL every time.

novabenz

SL2003driver

Im jst wonderin which dog will let go of the bone first

ItalianStallion

Unless they're 18 years old

But anyway...this discussion has become pretty pathetic. Sky, I seem to have dropped out of the discussions going on at Nagtroc...is the V-spec's power bump due to anything other than a boost increase? I'm just curious so I know whether or not a modded V-spec would be worth it over a modded normal GT-R as a street car. Thanks bro. Of course it's still early so we don't know facts, but the boys at Nagtroc had things right months before the official release.

SL2003driver

very good point

c32used

These are 2 totally different purpose cars

ZR1=PERFORMANCE MINDED PREDOMINATELY/LUXURY SOME
SL65=LUXURY FAST CAR BUT NOT A MOSTLY PERFORMANCE MINDED CAR

If you want to compare then make it the SL65 BS its made with the ULTIMATE performance and LUXURY in mind...to compete against the Super car segment..

c2jones

This could be true of some, but most are rather balanced. They know that they are not buying a luxury car, and naturally, they should not expect as much. Value, styling and reliability are also factors in place, to which should there be any perceived reduction to fine interior appointments from that of luxury cars costing much more, this is deemed the best choice for them all things considered. No one misses that point.

Many people that were shopping MB's and learned of their atrocious reliability record over the last several years could not justify the added excessive pricing just so that they could be bathed in fine leather. That seems such a vane reason to elect one's choice of car. We've been through this before.

Besides, again, is it any different for most brand loyalists? You miss the excuse making of many MB faithful that overlook, ignore or hide their reliability issues in their prestige mobiles and almost like a cult, seem needy of what their car does for their image - not the car in of itself, as is their motivation. (Have you read some of their comments in this thread of late? Its rather clear.)

This ensures that the lights will not go out for MB because despite quality setbacks (and reliability is part of quality), and they have had build issues, too, their faithful (for their own internal reasons) must have their cars come hell or high water, and will promptly overpay towards getting that "look at me" factor going. Some even feel their MB will substitute for their own character when it comes to the dating arena, etc. Sometimes one has to take a second look to believe what one is reading!)

MB knows this and must have laughed all the way to the bank as they targeted American vanity during their hayride here of late. And I know that you know exactly what I'm talking about.

So, I ask, how is one so different from another; how is it excuse making for one brand while simply staying the course with another?

Finally, what you call excuse making may really not be at all. If someone whom owns a GM product that is satisfied with their interior and build quality, and reports to actually favor their experience with their GM car, you automatically label this excuse making as they could not possibly see it any other way than yours, with superior MB build quality and the whole lot. They must be in total denial to not see their cars as YOU see them. That's what this boils down to.

c2jones

Then don't be here. Your presence is never mandated. All voluntary. You don't like what the station is playing? Turn the station.

c2jones

Precisely. That's what I have striven to do for may part. Black Series is duplicating the ZR1 composites mode for inclusion into the supercar market, just as stated. Problem then, as some would note, this brings the cost of the 65 up even further - well over twice as much as ZR1. Then that becomes the next question.

c32used

Well here is the answer then...if money is not an issue get the SL65 BS but if it is then get the ZR1...done! The basic SL65 is not a good comparison...and won't be a better choice compared to the ZR1..period!

Cylinder Head

iTrader: (1)

Slightly bigger turbos and a touch more boost. Definitely won't just be a remapped standard motor. Maybe better intercoolers. You're still just a chip and exhaust away from ~700 ponies.