SL55/63/65/R230 AMG: aftermarket headers
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Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 255
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2003 SL55 Klemman
aftermarket headers
So I have had my car for about 3 months now and new it had some mods done to it prior to me buying it.
The resonators were removed and I believe the cats were removed as well.
Anyways the dealer calls me up after having it in for some service and asks what type of headers i have on the car. Needless to say I was completely suprised by the question. He says there not stock headers. I bought the car from a used car dealer and he doesnt know anything about it.
Anyone know how i can identify the maker of the aftermarket headers?
The resonators were removed and I believe the cats were removed as well.
Anyways the dealer calls me up after having it in for some service and asks what type of headers i have on the car. Needless to say I was completely suprised by the question. He says there not stock headers. I bought the car from a used car dealer and he doesnt know anything about it.
Anyone know how i can identify the maker of the aftermarket headers?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,653
Likes: 5
From: Ann Arbor
'03 SL55
So I have had my car for about 3 months now and new it had some mods done to it prior to me buying it.
The resonators were removed and I believe the cats were removed as well.
Anyways the dealer calls me up after having it in for some service and asks what type of headers i have on the car. Needless to say I was completely suprised by the question. He says there not stock headers. I bought the car from a used car dealer and he doesnt know anything about it.
Anyone know how i can identify the maker of the aftermarket headers?
The resonators were removed and I believe the cats were removed as well.
Anyways the dealer calls me up after having it in for some service and asks what type of headers i have on the car. Needless to say I was completely suprised by the question. He says there not stock headers. I bought the car from a used car dealer and he doesnt know anything about it.
Anyone know how i can identify the maker of the aftermarket headers?
If you go to the website for those manufacturers you might be able to see where they stamp their headers. You might also be able to tell based on the differences in the design.
Good luck in your search and enjoy the 55!
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2008
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From: Puerto Rico
2005 SL55 AMG, 1986 Porsche 930S, 1996 Porsche 993tt
After reading & searching so many post, here are my choices
Shorties:
VRP vrptuning.com
Evosport evosport.com
Regular (long)headers:
Kleemann
Probably shorties are easier to install. Any big difference in performance between VRP & Kleeman headers?.
Need to know by manana(tomorrow AM) and call Cory (if I choose Klemmann) otherwise I will buy VRP.
Thanks,
Ricardo
Shorties:
VRP vrptuning.com
Evosport evosport.com
Regular (long)headers:
Kleemann
Probably shorties are easier to install. Any big difference in performance between VRP & Kleeman headers?.
Need to know by manana(tomorrow AM) and call Cory (if I choose Klemmann) otherwise I will buy VRP.
Thanks,
Ricardo
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,653
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From: Ann Arbor
'03 SL55
Yep, shorties are easier to install, as you suspect. In my case, just needed to re-route a heater line and bolt them on.
Long tubes will displace the primary cats and you'd need to deal with that, either by moving the cats and O2 sensor or removing them and reprogramming the ECU to ignore the O2 sensor. Not impossibly hard and Kleemann would take care of the ECU re-program if I recall correctly.
As I mentioned above, I went the shorty route (Evosport; no VRP at the time) and have no regrets. However, if you are looking for every shred of extra performance, long tubes will give you a bit more. How much more? Not sure. Maybe 5 or 10 HP?
Hope that helps.
Long tubes will displace the primary cats and you'd need to deal with that, either by moving the cats and O2 sensor or removing them and reprogramming the ECU to ignore the O2 sensor. Not impossibly hard and Kleemann would take care of the ECU re-program if I recall correctly.
As I mentioned above, I went the shorty route (Evosport; no VRP at the time) and have no regrets. However, if you are looking for every shred of extra performance, long tubes will give you a bit more. How much more? Not sure. Maybe 5 or 10 HP?
Hope that helps.
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Joined: Sep 2008
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From: San Diego, CA
07 RS4 sold, R53 Cooper S, 2008 Cayman S, 2012 GTR
VRP has log type headers
RENNtech and EVOsport have equal pressure shortly headers
Kleemann is currently running a great holiday sale, they are shortly headers but also remove the primary cats
Supersprint I believe are long tubes
RENNtech and EVOsport have equal pressure shortly headers
Kleemann is currently running a great holiday sale, they are shortly headers but also remove the primary cats
Supersprint I believe are long tubes
Last edited by James@ACG; Nov 11, 2008 at 10:47 AM.
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 730
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From: Puerto Rico
2005 SL55 AMG, 1986 Porsche 930S, 1996 Porsche 993tt
I already spoke with Cory from Kleemann about installing the Kleemann headers, yes primary cats have to be deleted then O2 sensor relocated, some exhaust modification and finally ecu reprograming by them (Kleemann) to avoid engine lights.
I just had my ecu done by Powerchip Group 3 weeks ago. If Kleemann sales was posted earlier I will do their upgrades, but I live very far away(Puerto Rico) from Kleemann and will be crazy to spend more $$$$ on ecu re-programing.
I will like to avoid engine lights and want then to keep stock exhaust at this moment, yes I will delete the secondary cats, but my question now is, should I buy EVOsport or VRP headers. I'm more incline towards VRP.
Now what you people recommend with my car upgrades? EVOsport or VRP.
Thanks,
Ricardo
I just had my ecu done by Powerchip Group 3 weeks ago. If Kleemann sales was posted earlier I will do their upgrades, but I live very far away(Puerto Rico) from Kleemann and will be crazy to spend more $$$$ on ecu re-programing.
I will like to avoid engine lights and want then to keep stock exhaust at this moment, yes I will delete the secondary cats, but my question now is, should I buy EVOsport or VRP headers. I'm more incline towards VRP.
Now what you people recommend with my car upgrades? EVOsport or VRP.
Thanks,
Ricardo
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,653
Likes: 5
From: Ann Arbor
'03 SL55
...
I will like to avoid engine lights and want then to keep stock exhaust at this moment, yes I will delete the secondary cats, but my question now is, should I buy EVOsport or VRP headers. I'm more incline towards VRP.
Now what you people recommend with my car upgrades? EVOsport or VRP.
....
I will like to avoid engine lights and want then to keep stock exhaust at this moment, yes I will delete the secondary cats, but my question now is, should I buy EVOsport or VRP headers. I'm more incline towards VRP.
Now what you people recommend with my car upgrades? EVOsport or VRP.
....
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From: Scottsdale (aka The Surface of the Sun)
MBWorld Founder
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,599
Likes: 7
From: Scottsdale (aka The Surface of the Sun)
However, there is very little real chance that a log manifold makes anywhere near the power of our or any other shorty header. You ask how I know - well, we built log manifolds and tested them against the shorty headers YEARS ago (when Vadim was working here) and the real results were very clear. That is why we chose to go the more expensive route with a proper shorty header.
Yes, the manifold is cheaper, but it will not give you the same or even close to the same results. FYI, we did recently lower the price of the headers as well, just an FYI.
Thanks
Brad
Banned
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Posts: 2,855
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From: Southern California
S600TT, R350
However, there is very little real chance that a log manifold makes anywhere near the power of our or any other shorty header. You ask how I know - well, we built log manifolds and tested them against the shorty headers YEARS ago (when Vadim was working here) and the real results were very clear. That is why we chose to go the more expensive route with a proper shorty header.
My current log design uses 1.75'' primaries vs. 1.625'', as well 2'' collector flange vs. 1.875''. It will out power any other bolt-on design.
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From: Scottsdale (aka The Surface of the Sun)
Sounds like time for a showdown wild west style!
Anyone with a stock 55 that is thinking about headers, I will give you a crazy deal.
Vadim, you get a STOCK car also and we will do a dyno shoot out!
Then the proof is out there for everyone, no problems! We can even use Steve's dyno so there is no hint of bias!
Anyone with a stock 55 that is thinking about headers, I will give you a crazy deal.
Vadim, you get a STOCK car also and we will do a dyno shoot out!
Then the proof is out there for everyone, no problems! We can even use Steve's dyno so there is no hint of bias!
PLATINUM SPONSOR
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,834
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From: Texas
2003 CL55
Crazy deal? My PM is open. No need to pay inventory taxes, when I can help out, give track results and dyno numbers..
Just a little over stock.
My B day is this week. Say the word and my wife will call
Just a little over stock. My B day is this week. Say the word and my wife will call
__________________
E63 Biturbo, UPD Cold Air induction kit, UPD performance crank pulley and UPD adjustable rear suspension with ride height adjustment.
CL55 UPD Cold Air Boost kit, UPD 3000 stall converter, UPD 77mm SC clutched pulley and beltwrap kit, Custom long tubes, UPD crank pulley , UPD suspension kit, UPD SC pulley, Aux. HE, Trunk tank w/rule 2000 pump, Mezeire pump, UPD 5pc idler set, Aluminum rotor hats.
www.ultimatepd.com
instagram @ultimate_pd
facebook.com/ultimatepd
E63 Biturbo, UPD Cold Air induction kit, UPD performance crank pulley and UPD adjustable rear suspension with ride height adjustment.
CL55 UPD Cold Air Boost kit, UPD 3000 stall converter, UPD 77mm SC clutched pulley and beltwrap kit, Custom long tubes, UPD crank pulley , UPD suspension kit, UPD SC pulley, Aux. HE, Trunk tank w/rule 2000 pump, Mezeire pump, UPD 5pc idler set, Aluminum rotor hats.
www.ultimatepd.com
instagram @ultimate_pd
facebook.com/ultimatepd
Banned
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,587
Likes: 0
'09 C63 AMG
Sounds like time for a showdown wild west style!
Anyone with a stock 55 that is thinking about headers, I will give you a crazy deal.
Vadim, you get a STOCK car also and we will do a dyno shoot out!
Then the proof is out there for everyone, no problems! We can even use Steve's dyno so there is no hint of bias!
Anyone with a stock 55 that is thinking about headers, I will give you a crazy deal.
Vadim, you get a STOCK car also and we will do a dyno shoot out!
Then the proof is out there for everyone, no problems! We can even use Steve's dyno so there is no hint of bias!
PLATINUM SPONSOR
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,834
Likes: 65
From: Texas
2003 CL55
Full disclosure of course!
__________________
E63 Biturbo, UPD Cold Air induction kit, UPD performance crank pulley and UPD adjustable rear suspension with ride height adjustment.
CL55 UPD Cold Air Boost kit, UPD 3000 stall converter, UPD 77mm SC clutched pulley and beltwrap kit, Custom long tubes, UPD crank pulley , UPD suspension kit, UPD SC pulley, Aux. HE, Trunk tank w/rule 2000 pump, Mezeire pump, UPD 5pc idler set, Aluminum rotor hats.
www.ultimatepd.com
instagram @ultimate_pd
facebook.com/ultimatepd
E63 Biturbo, UPD Cold Air induction kit, UPD performance crank pulley and UPD adjustable rear suspension with ride height adjustment.
CL55 UPD Cold Air Boost kit, UPD 3000 stall converter, UPD 77mm SC clutched pulley and beltwrap kit, Custom long tubes, UPD crank pulley , UPD suspension kit, UPD SC pulley, Aux. HE, Trunk tank w/rule 2000 pump, Mezeire pump, UPD 5pc idler set, Aluminum rotor hats.
www.ultimatepd.com
instagram @ultimate_pd
facebook.com/ultimatepd
Banned
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,855
Likes: 2
From: Southern California
S600TT, R350
They both found out like the rest of the dyno shops around the country that headers only made 1 to 3 HP difference over stock
Dyno graphs to follow. We had a client who wanted to do our shorties first, before any other mods.
I will post graphs as soon as I get them.
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 44
Likes: 2
From: Scottsdale, AZ.
'22 SL63
Although that is awesome to get 23RWHP difference over stock with just a header swap. I don't think there has been a car prior to the mid 80's that has benefitted that much from just headers. Those stock headers must have been made in a cave somewhere!
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 32
Likes: 1
From: Renton, WA
2004 SL500 Sport
Wrong...wrong...wrong. Headers...specially long tube headers have been proven time after time to give real horsepower improvements. Prior to owning a very tame SL500 I've owned several corvettes and built about a dozen motors for several corvette owners locally. One good example is the brand new LS3 motor (rated at 438bhp) in a the new corvettes. Long tube headers and a tune allowed that car to put down around 475rwhp!! That's about as much as the new Z06 puts down with the LS7!!! By the way, a good set of LT headers in a vette could result in close to 45rwhp after a tune. Look it up if you don't believe me. If shops are telling you that a twin turbo V12 motor(exhaust driven force induction) does not increase horsepower, the I wouldn't let those shops check the tire pressure in my cars much less do any performance upgrades.
That could be on an SL55, but I shoud have stated SL65, at least that's what I've been told by most of the dyno shops.
Although that is awesome to get 23RWHP difference over stock with just a header swap. I don't think there has been a car prior to the mid 80's that has benefitted that much from just headers. Those stock headers must have been made in a cave somewhere!
Although that is awesome to get 23RWHP difference over stock with just a header swap. I don't think there has been a car prior to the mid 80's that has benefitted that much from just headers. Those stock headers must have been made in a cave somewhere!
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 44
Likes: 2
From: Scottsdale, AZ.
'22 SL63
Wrong...wrong...wrong. Headers...specially long tube headers have been proven time after time to give real horsepower improvements. Prior to owning a very tame SL500 I've owned several corvettes and built about a dozen motors for several corvette owners locally. One good example is the brand new LS3 motor (rated at 438bhp) in a the new corvettes. Long tube headers and a tune allowed that car to put down around 475rwhp!! That's about as much as the new Z06 puts down with the LS7!!! By the way, a good set of LT headers in a vette could result in close to 45rwhp after a tune. Look it up if you don't believe me. If shops are telling you that a twin turbo V12 motor(exhaust driven force induction) does not increase horsepower, the I wouldn't let those shops check the tire pressure in my cars much less do any performance upgrades.
I've built 2 Z06's now, and both the long tube headers, one made by Kooks and the other by B&B and both never made anywheres near that RWHP at 3 different dyno shops. The Kooks LT's on an 08 Z06 made approx 13RWHP and 9RWTQ. B&B LT's on my 04 Z06 made 6 to 7RWHP and 4RWTQ. Xtreme Motorsports in Tempe AZ builds more Vettes than most shops in the country combined and they will tell you that the days of getting high HP #'s out of just bolting on headers and cat back exhausts went out in the 80's. These car companies have realized long ago that making a free flowing exhaust is cheaper than beefing up the motor to compensate for HP. I remember doing the Headers and exhaust on my 87 IROC back in the day and how much of a difference it made due to the factory restricted exhaust. Nowadays all the money people waste on exhausts does nothing more than give your car a different note to sing. Most aftermarket vendors and mom & pop speed shops don't want to come forward and actually tell you that because it would put them out of business, and the big shops with the dyno's in house can play with the #'s on the dyno to show you false readings after you drop big coin on their recommended exhaust they installed for you.
I guarantee there is no header or exhaust you can slap on an SL55 or SL65 that will give you in excess of 20RWHP if I'm working the controls on the dyno given the same conditions that the car was run at stock.
Trust me it's all just the sales and marketing gimmicks we've all seen over the past couple of decades of bolt on crap that you should have over 2,000HP by the time you put this and that on your car.
Banned
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,855
Likes: 2
From: Southern California
S600TT, R350
That could be on an SL55, but I shoud have stated SL65, at least that's what I've been told by most of the dyno shops.
M113 Kompressor engine uses the same headers as E500, the primaries are 1.5'' and collector flange is 1.75''. This is why we pick 20+ HP on the Kompressor cars.
