SL55/63/65/R230 AMG: New Member with New Project SL 65 Black Series Conversion
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Newbie
Joined: Mar 2009
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SL 65
New Member with New Project SL 65 Black Series Conversion
Hi I would like to introduce myself on this forum. I am actually new to MB World, but I have been on many other enthusiasts sites in the past. I will be posting in this thread to document my conversion from a 2005 SL65 into a SL65 Black Series Convertible. Our goal is to build a 1000 HP convertible. It will make its debut later this year at SEMA 2009. Heres a preview of what is to come.
GOAL 1000 HP WIDEBODY CONVERTIBLE
GOAL 1000 HP WIDEBODY CONVERTIBLE
Last edited by RWDRIFT; Mar 25, 2009 at 06:52 PM.
Former Vendor of MBWorld
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AMG
Making the power isn't that hard on a twin turbo V12, its getting it to the ground & finding a transmission strong enough to handle the power & torque.
Good luck, should be interesting to see the results.
Good luck, should be interesting to see the results.
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Mar 2009
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SL 65
Yeah from what we heard from Renntech the rods and pistons are the weakest part of the engine. I will be using crower rods and je pistons in that dept with new turbos.
Right now I am in the process of looking for ways to improve the tranny and the linkage to sustain the power.
The entire build will be posted on here.
Right now I am in the process of looking for ways to improve the tranny and the linkage to sustain the power.
The entire build will be posted on here.
Last edited by RWDRIFT; Mar 25, 2009 at 07:15 PM.
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SL63 AMG, E46 M3, CL500
welcome!
looking forward to seeing your project come along!
compared to the hp that you will be making, i am more interested at the body parts! i will be very interested in getting a black series style front bumper and hood...!!!
good luck on everything!
looking forward to seeing your project come along!
compared to the hp that you will be making, i am more interested at the body parts! i will be very interested in getting a black series style front bumper and hood...!!!
good luck on everything!
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Real Cars
I don't think making 1000hp is out of the realm of possibility even with stock pistons. The V12 has forged pistons with oil squirters underneath so honestly as long as the tune is good, I wouldn't be too concerned about the pistons. However, as other tuners have demonstrated, the real challenge is going to be with the torque - on the connecting rods (which are not forged) and on the drivetrain. With 1000hp - you will likely have in the neighborhood of 1300-1500 tq. With 4500lbs to move, that is going to be a challenge.
On top of it all, the electronic component to this will also be interesting. I've learned some inside info from other tuners making power on these V12s, and the ECU and TCU are just very complicated beasts. I will be very interested to see if the very high goals you have set can be reached.
-m
On top of it all, the electronic component to this will also be interesting. I've learned some inside info from other tuners making power on these V12s, and the ECU and TCU are just very complicated beasts. I will be very interested to see if the very high goals you have set can be reached.
-m
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Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 192
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From: IL.
ML320cdi, F250dsl.
Yeah from what we heard from Renntech the rods and pistons are the weakest part of the engine. We will be using crower rods and je pistons in that dept with new turbos.
We are in the process of looking for ways to improve the tranny and the linkage to sustain the power.
The entire build will be posted on here.
We are in the process of looking for ways to improve the tranny and the linkage to sustain the power.
The entire build will be posted on here.
So just what is the breaking point for rods/pistons on a 65 motor?
I would love to know what it is and how Renntech determined it.
With a V12 motor 1000hp breaks down to about 83.3 hp per cylinder.
Or 166 hp per liter. The average cast piston can handle that kind of load.
Being that the 65 motor has forged internals makes me believe that the internals should hold up.
Not trying to start an argument or discredit you or Renntech. Just that on paper that motor should be able to handle 1000 crank hp. And I find it very hard to believe that MB/AMG would use anything but the best materials for their flagship powerplant. No manufacturer out there that has forced induction powerplants in production builds them to just barely hold stock hp levels.
Member
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From: Bay Area, CA
05 E55, 07 SL65, 06 S4
I don't think making 1000hp is out of the realm of possibility even with stock pistons. The V12 has forged pistons with oil squirters underneath so honestly as long as the tune is good, I wouldn't be too concerned about the pistons. However, as other tuners have demonstrated, the real challenge is going to be with the torque - on the connecting rods (which are not forged) and on the drivetrain. With 1000hp - you will likely have in the neighborhood of 1300-1500 tq. With 4500lbs to move, that is going to be a challenge.
On top of it all, the electronic component to this will also be interesting. I've learned some inside info from other tuners making power on these V12s, and the ECU and TCU are just very complicated beasts. I will be very interested to see if the very high goals you have set can be reached.
-m
On top of it all, the electronic component to this will also be interesting. I've learned some inside info from other tuners making power on these V12s, and the ECU and TCU are just very complicated beasts. I will be very interested to see if the very high goals you have set can be reached.
-m
Be that as it may, for the low RPM 65 engine that is actually not relevant as long as higher RPM are not the route for higher HP. Assuming the above, the significantly higher cylinder pressure that is needed for the HP gains are extracting compression and bending forces on the con-rods (and deformation of the journals) i.e. critical than is not tensile strength which would be the chief advantage of the forged rod - what I am trying to say is that I cant see how the con-rods would be a weak link.
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From: Chicago, IL
Real Cars
www.mercedes-amg.com has a nice long feature on the V12 and while it makes great mention of the forged pistons, it does not mention the connecting rods at all...
Be that as it may, for the low RPM 65 engine that is actually not relevant as long as higher RPM are not the route for higher HP. Assuming the above, the significantly higher cylinder pressure that is needed for the HP gains are extracting compression and bending forces on the con-rods (and deformation of the journals) i.e. critical than is not tensile strength which would be the chief advantage of the forged rod - what I am trying to say is that I cant see how the con-rods would be a weak link.
1.) The uncertainty of the approach
2.) The unknown composition/properties of the stock connecting rods
This is likely a waste of time to discuss, as he says he is going to be using aftermarket rods anyways. I guess then the real question is going to be about the drivetrain and what it's going to do when it tries to move 4500lbs with 1500lb/ft of torque
-m
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From: Sherman Oaks, CA
06 CLS55 w/ P030, 05 Jag S Type R, 05 TBird-68 Dodge Charger R/T-440 w/4speed I'm original owner
A nnnn HP Black Series Clone?
Droping in a new power plant does not make a MB a BS. Making at least 300 that are reliable, backed with a warranty and not put together with wire ties is the challenge. Commiting millions of $$ in RD is what sets apart the men from the boys.
Just another Tuner's wet dream.
Droping in a new power plant does not make a MB a BS. Making at least 300 that are reliable, backed with a warranty and not put together with wire ties is the challenge. Commiting millions of $$ in RD is what sets apart the men from the boys.
Just another Tuner's wet dream.
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SL600
LOL, do you realize he hasn't made a single post since March, right? Even I could have made more progress in this time using a Black & Decker and some cardboard. I'd have pictures, or excuses if not-- something!
LIE TO ME! Tell me you at least got K&N Air Filters or chrome lug nots, anything that insinuates progress! It is a shame, I was really looking forward to this...
LIE TO ME! Tell me you at least got K&N Air Filters or chrome lug nots, anything that insinuates progress! It is a shame, I was really looking forward to this...
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From: Miami Beach
BS
not to back him up or anything, but I know who this is and what work he does from other forums. In case you guys are thinking he is a BS'er, this is Vince, the owner of iForged. He has built TONS of cars, and on my resident forum is in the process of selling his Green Techart GTStreet conversion that you see on practically every car magazine. I can 100% gaurantee this conversion will be done. He may not hit the 1000hp mark, but he definitely has the skill, talent, and wallet to try. If you want to keep up with his more current posts check out 6speedonline. He probably forgot that he made a screen name here. But just to clarify, this isn't just any tuner's 'wet dream" or a guy putting a "k&n filter in". He is probably the number one euro luxury tuner in the world.
http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/a...-show-car.html
http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/a...-show-car.html
