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New Member with New Project SL 65 Black Series Conversion

 
Old 03-24-2009, 04:13 PM
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New Member with New Project SL 65 Black Series Conversion

Hi I would like to introduce myself on this forum. I am actually new to MB World, but I have been on many other enthusiasts sites in the past. I will be posting in this thread to document my conversion from a 2005 SL65 into a SL65 Black Series Convertible. Our goal is to build a 1000 HP convertible. It will make its debut later this year at SEMA 2009. Heres a preview of what is to come.



GOAL 1000 HP WIDEBODY CONVERTIBLE

Last edited by RWDRIFT; 03-25-2009 at 06:52 PM.
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Old 03-24-2009, 06:24 PM
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1,000 sustainable horsepowers? Ambitious plan. Good luck, and post dyno-sheets!
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Old 03-24-2009, 06:36 PM
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Making the power isn't that hard on a twin turbo V12, its getting it to the ground & finding a transmission strong enough to handle the power & torque.

Good luck, should be interesting to see the results.
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Old 03-24-2009, 07:02 PM
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Yeah from what we heard from Renntech the rods and pistons are the weakest part of the engine. I will be using crower rods and je pistons in that dept with new turbos.

Right now I am in the process of looking for ways to improve the tranny and the linkage to sustain the power.

The entire build will be posted on here.

Last edited by RWDRIFT; 03-25-2009 at 07:15 PM.
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Old 03-24-2009, 08:01 PM
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Hello and welcome! Looking forward to seeing your progress.
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Old 03-24-2009, 10:33 PM
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welcome!

looking forward to seeing your project come along!

compared to the hp that you will be making, i am more interested at the body parts! i will be very interested in getting a black series style front bumper and hood...!!!

good luck on everything!
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Old 03-25-2009, 12:27 AM
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I don't think making 1000hp is out of the realm of possibility even with stock pistons. The V12 has forged pistons with oil squirters underneath so honestly as long as the tune is good, I wouldn't be too concerned about the pistons. However, as other tuners have demonstrated, the real challenge is going to be with the torque - on the connecting rods (which are not forged) and on the drivetrain. With 1000hp - you will likely have in the neighborhood of 1300-1500 tq. With 4500lbs to move, that is going to be a challenge.

On top of it all, the electronic component to this will also be interesting. I've learned some inside info from other tuners making power on these V12s, and the ECU and TCU are just very complicated beasts. I will be very interested to see if the very high goals you have set can be reached.

-m
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Old 03-25-2009, 12:30 AM
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Old 03-25-2009, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by RWDRIFT View Post
Yeah from what we heard from Renntech the rods and pistons are the weakest part of the engine. We will be using crower rods and je pistons in that dept with new turbos.

We are in the process of looking for ways to improve the tranny and the linkage to sustain the power.

The entire build will be posted on here.

So just what is the breaking point for rods/pistons on a 65 motor?
I would love to know what it is and how Renntech determined it.

With a V12 motor 1000hp breaks down to about 83.3 hp per cylinder.
Or 166 hp per liter. The average cast piston can handle that kind of load.
Being that the 65 motor has forged internals makes me believe that the internals should hold up.

Not trying to start an argument or discredit you or Renntech. Just that on paper that motor should be able to handle 1000 crank hp. And I find it very hard to believe that MB/AMG would use anything but the best materials for their flagship powerplant. No manufacturer out there that has forced induction powerplants in production builds them to just barely hold stock hp levels.
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Old 03-25-2009, 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Marcus Frost View Post
I don't think making 1000hp is out of the realm of possibility even with stock pistons. The V12 has forged pistons with oil squirters underneath so honestly as long as the tune is good, I wouldn't be too concerned about the pistons. However, as other tuners have demonstrated, the real challenge is going to be with the torque - on the connecting rods (which are not forged) and on the drivetrain. With 1000hp - you will likely have in the neighborhood of 1300-1500 tq. With 4500lbs to move, that is going to be a challenge.

On top of it all, the electronic component to this will also be interesting. I've learned some inside info from other tuners making power on these V12s, and the ECU and TCU are just very complicated beasts. I will be very interested to see if the very high goals you have set can be reached.

-m
From information I have from a German AMG flyer, there is a reference to forged con-rods, curious where you found they would be cast or powder metal?
Be that as it may, for the low RPM 65 engine that is actually not relevant as long as higher RPM are not the route for higher HP. Assuming the above, the significantly higher cylinder pressure that is needed for the HP gains are extracting compression and bending forces on the con-rods (and deformation of the journals) i.e. critical than is not tensile strength which would be the chief advantage of the forged rod - what I am trying to say is that I cant see how the con-rods would be a weak link.
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Old 03-25-2009, 01:56 AM
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So this is what you were talking about... preview looks good, any pictures of the actual car yet?
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Old 03-25-2009, 04:03 AM
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welcome.

its a nice and ambitious project. cant wait to see the results

good luck.
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Old 03-25-2009, 05:07 AM
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Welcome to the board and wish you the best. Interesting project.
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Old 03-25-2009, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by CA_E55 View Post
From information I have from a German AMG flyer, there is a reference to forged con-rods, curious where you found they would be cast or powder metal?
I do not know the exact metalurgic composition of the V12s connecting rods, but I do not believe they are forged. I will admit that I may be wrong about this.

www.mercedes-amg.com has a nice long feature on the V12 and while it makes great mention of the forged pistons, it does not mention the connecting rods at all...

Be that as it may, for the low RPM 65 engine that is actually not relevant as long as higher RPM are not the route for higher HP. Assuming the above, the significantly higher cylinder pressure that is needed for the HP gains are extracting compression and bending forces on the con-rods (and deformation of the journals) i.e. critical than is not tensile strength which would be the chief advantage of the forged rod - what I am trying to say is that I cant see how the con-rods would be a weak link.
It all depends on the approach. As I'm sure you know typically conrods are subject to 4 types of forces - all of which increase when significantly raising the output of an engine. Since I know that 1000hp is not possible on the factory K24s they are going to do new turbos, nitrous, or any other number of other things to get to that level - including possibly raising the rev-limit. My point about the connecting rods being questionable is because of the unknown elements and the significant increases in pressures and friction on the rotating assembly. I think you are assuming too much about their approach whereas my thoughts about connecting rods being the weak point are really based on two things:

1.) The uncertainty of the approach
2.) The unknown composition/properties of the stock connecting rods

This is likely a waste of time to discuss, as he says he is going to be using aftermarket rods anyways. I guess then the real question is going to be about the drivetrain and what it's going to do when it tries to move 4500lbs with 1500lb/ft of torque

-m
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Old 03-25-2009, 01:12 PM
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This is going to be a project to watch for sure. Good luck and give us the details as they develop!
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Old 03-25-2009, 08:05 PM
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Old 03-25-2009, 08:17 PM
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A nnnn HP Black Series Clone?

Droping in a new power plant does not make a MB a BS. Making at least 300 that are reliable, backed with a warranty and not put together with wire ties is the challenge. Commiting millions of $$ in RD is what sets apart the men from the boys.

Just another Tuner's wet dream.
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Old 03-25-2009, 11:08 PM
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if your in florida, I'll have my ducati 1098 S in about 2-3 Months. I'd be up for a 0-170 shootout with a 1000 HP SL.
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Old 03-26-2009, 10:32 PM
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Hmmm...another 1000HP project !
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Old 03-27-2009, 04:56 AM
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I wondered how long it would take for the first SL 65 to SL 65 Black series project to kick off!
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Old 06-29-2009, 11:57 PM
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Wow, the progress here is amazing!

Move along guys, just another FAIL.
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Old 06-30-2009, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Akademiks View Post
Wow, the progress here is amazing!

Move along guys, just another FAIL.
+1, where the hell did he go???
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Old 06-30-2009, 11:11 AM
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I think it will be a great project.


Good Luck

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Old 06-30-2009, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by kamilclk430 View Post
I think it will be a great project.


Good Luck

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LOL, do you realize he hasn't made a single post since March, right? Even I could have made more progress in this time using a Black & Decker and some cardboard. I'd have pictures, or excuses if not-- something!

LIE TO ME! Tell me you at least got K&N Air Filters or chrome lug nots, anything that insinuates progress! It is a shame, I was really looking forward to this...
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Old 06-30-2009, 01:23 PM
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not to back him up or anything, but I know who this is and what work he does from other forums. In case you guys are thinking he is a BS'er, this is Vince, the owner of iForged. He has built TONS of cars, and on my resident forum is in the process of selling his Green Techart GTStreet conversion that you see on practically every car magazine. I can 100% gaurantee this conversion will be done. He may not hit the 1000hp mark, but he definitely has the skill, talent, and wallet to try. If you want to keep up with his more current posts check out 6speedonline. He probably forgot that he made a screen name here. But just to clarify, this isn't just any tuner's 'wet dream" or a guy putting a "k&n filter in". He is probably the number one euro luxury tuner in the world.

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/a...-show-car.html
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