I still have no idea if it was an SL65 or an SL600 that you "raced"
SL55/63/65/R230 AMG: Turbos vs. Supercharger
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From: West Texas
Yes
we seem to have gotten off the point here, sl600's are in MOST scenarios minutely faster the the supercharged sl55's. In reality same conditions and driver they are probably within a tenth or 2, meaning in all likelyhood a car length. i have beaten the only sl66 i came accross, maybe he couldnt drive, maybe he had intercooler pump issies, who knows, who cars. i have better **** to do today then get into this. im out!
Probably the only one you've come across because it must be a one-of-a-kind custom?
BTW, you want to really compare the potential of the two...compare a tune only SL55 vs a tune only SL600 - you will lose. You really think MB wasn't smart enough to detune the 600s from the factory so as not to overshadow the AMG 55s and make them all but obsolete??? Please, join us in reality!
A tune/throttle body/pulley CL55 went 11.61 @ 120.26 with a 1.75 60' with a -965 DA (that corrects to about an 11.64 @ 120.03 at 0 DA); even with a 1.67 60' that would be an 11.45-11.50 at best.
A tune only CL600 went 11.22 @ 122.31 with a 1.67 60' with a 1375 DA (that corrects to about an 11.17 @ 122.85 at 0 DA)
You may think that .3-.4 isn't much...but that's busses at those speeds and a significant power differential (although it's hard to say exactly how much power and were in the powerband because of the nature of the two engines' powerbands)
Last edited by FormulaZR; Oct 14, 2009 at 10:04 AM.
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Probably the only one you've come across because it must be a one-of-a-kind custom?
BTW, you want to really compare the potential of the two...compare a tune only SL55 vs a tune only SL600 - you will lose. You really think MB wasn't smart enough to detune the 600s from the factory so as not to overshadow the AMG 55s and make them all but obsolete??? Please, join us in reality!
A tune/throttle body/pulley CL55 went 11.61 @ 120.26 with a 1.75 60' with a -965 DA (that corrects to about an 11.64 @ 120.03 at 0 DA); even with a 1.67 60' that would be an 11.45-11.50 at best.
A tune only CL600 went 11.22 @ 122.31 with a 1.67 60' with a 1375 DA (that corrects to about an 11.17 @ 122.85 at 0 DA)
You may think that .3-.4 isn't much...but that's busses at those speeds and a significant power differential (although it's hard to say exactly how much power and were in the powerband because of the nature of the two engines' powerbands)
BTW, you want to really compare the potential of the two...compare a tune only SL55 vs a tune only SL600 - you will lose. You really think MB wasn't smart enough to detune the 600s from the factory so as not to overshadow the AMG 55s and make them all but obsolete??? Please, join us in reality!
A tune/throttle body/pulley CL55 went 11.61 @ 120.26 with a 1.75 60' with a -965 DA (that corrects to about an 11.64 @ 120.03 at 0 DA); even with a 1.67 60' that would be an 11.45-11.50 at best.
A tune only CL600 went 11.22 @ 122.31 with a 1.67 60' with a 1375 DA (that corrects to about an 11.17 @ 122.85 at 0 DA)
You may think that .3-.4 isn't much...but that's busses at those speeds and a significant power differential (although it's hard to say exactly how much power and were in the powerband because of the nature of the two engines' powerbands)
and .3 seconds is about 50 feet, thats not much at all, certainly not "busses"
dont try to talk to me about drag racing, ive forgotten more about drag racing than you will ever know
Last edited by GFEAR; Oct 14, 2009 at 10:54 AM.
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From: West Texas
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What? I'm supposed to read your mind? Actually thought you got off on the keypad and meant 55...don't blame me for my lack of psychic powers...
But yeah, .3 is about 50 feet and .4 is about 70 feet...in the example above with the two CL's would be .33 difference if they had similiar 60's resulting in about 58 feet; so a bus and half then.
If you knew half as much as you think you do, then maybe you could debate this point with facts...rather than personal attacks.
Last edited by FormulaZR; Oct 14, 2009 at 11:07 AM.
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new balance
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From: Brooklyn, NY/Tampa, FL
2005 BLK/BLK E-Double Nickel.
Hit him below the belt!!!
Okay Brothers,
Just got off the phone with my buddy, and he was smashing our superchargers. He was telling me how the skylines are much better because it was turbo. Although I would have to agree with him about the ability of turbos to gain more "usable" HP, I still think superchargers are more efficient and easier to tune. Am I wrong? It's difficult for me to have an intelligent conversation with my limited knowledge on this subject matter, so I told him I will do more research before I rebut his comment. Any help would be much appreciated.
Just got off the phone with my buddy, and he was smashing our superchargers. He was telling me how the skylines are much better because it was turbo. Although I would have to agree with him about the ability of turbos to gain more "usable" HP, I still think superchargers are more efficient and easier to tune. Am I wrong? It's difficult for me to have an intelligent conversation with my limited knowledge on this subject matter, so I told him I will do more research before I rebut his comment. Any help would be much appreciated.
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What? I'm supposed to read your mind? Actually thought you got off on the keypad and meant 55...don't blame me for my lack of psychic powers...
But yeah, .3 is about 50 feet and .4 is about 70 feet...in the example above with the two CL's would be .33 difference if they had similiar 60's resulting in about 58 feet; so a bus and half then.
If you knew half as much as you think you do, then maybe you could debate this point with facts...rather than personal attacks.
But yeah, .3 is about 50 feet and .4 is about 70 feet...in the example above with the two CL's would be .33 difference if they had similiar 60's resulting in about 58 feet; so a bus and half then.
If you knew half as much as you think you do, then maybe you could debate this point with facts...rather than personal attacks.
THE DIFFERNCE BETWEEN A STOCK SL55 AND STOCK SL600 IN A DRAG RACE IS SO MINIMAL OTHER FACTORS SUCH AS THE DRIVER WILL COME INTO PLAY BEFORE THE MINIMAL HP AND HP TO WEIGHT DIFFERENCES DO.
STOP TALKIGN ABOUT CL'S WE ARE TALKING ABOUT STOCK SL55'S AND 600'S HERE.
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From: West Texas
Yes
WHAT PERSONAL ATTACKS? i have used nothng but facts, MY expirences with MY car, not some " guy who posted his time slip" my point is still valid. see if you can grasp this concept, here is the fact you crave so much:
THE DIFFERNCE BETWEEN A STOCK SL55 AND STOCK SL600 IN A DRAG RACE IS SO MINIMAL OTHER FACTORS SUCH AS THE DRIVER WILL COME INTO PLAY BEFORE THE MINIMAL HP AND HP TO WEIGHT DIFFERENCES DO.
STOP TALKIGN ABOUT CL'S WE ARE TALKING ABOUT STOCK SL55'S AND 600'S HERE.
THE DIFFERNCE BETWEEN A STOCK SL55 AND STOCK SL600 IN A DRAG RACE IS SO MINIMAL OTHER FACTORS SUCH AS THE DRIVER WILL COME INTO PLAY BEFORE THE MINIMAL HP AND HP TO WEIGHT DIFFERENCES DO.
STOP TALKIGN ABOUT CL'S WE ARE TALKING ABOUT STOCK SL55'S AND 600'S HERE.
Let me correct you here...YOU are the ONLY one talking about stock SL's here. You've managed to get this thread rediculously SO far off topic. Nobody but you cares what a stock SL55 vs a stock SL600 would do. It's been proven, several times, that the 600 will win...you just choose not to believe it because it wasn't vs your car. Also, I believe C&D recorded 11.9 @ 120 with a stock SL600...I don't know the details of that pass as there is no timeslip; but I haven't seen your slip either.
One of my main points earlier was a tune only SL55 WILL lose to a tune only SL600, or anything other 600 for that matter. That is relevant to the original topic, it clearly demonstrates another reason why turbocharging is generally superior to a roots blower. If you uncork both cars to produce the power they are ALREADY capable of, but are limited based on tune, then the 55's don't have a leg to stand on. That is fact, you not liking it or coming up with an alternate reality of your own doesn't change it.
Now, if you have something relevant to the Roots vs Centrifugal vs Turbo discussion, then by all means post it...but if not, pipe down or start your own thread.
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Let me correct you here...YOU are the ONLY one talking about stock SL's here. You've managed to get this thread rediculously SO far off topic. Nobody but you cares what a stock SL55 vs a stock SL600 would do. It's been proven, several times, that the 600 will win...you just choose not to believe it because it wasn't vs your car. Also, I believe C&D recorded 11.9 @ 120 with a stock SL600...I don't know the details of that pass as there is no timeslip; but I haven't seen your slip either.
One of my main points earlier was a tune only SL55 WILL lose to a tune only SL600, or anything other 600 for that matter. That is relevant to the original topic, it clearly demonstrates another reason why turbocharging is generally superior to a roots blower. If you uncork both cars to produce the power they are ALREADY capable of, but are limited based on tune, then the 55's don't have a leg to stand on. That is fact, you not liking it or coming up with an alternate reality of your own doesn't change it.
Now, if you have something relevant to the Roots vs Centrifugal vs Turbo discussion, then by all means post it...but if not, pipe down or start your own thread.
One of my main points earlier was a tune only SL55 WILL lose to a tune only SL600, or anything other 600 for that matter. That is relevant to the original topic, it clearly demonstrates another reason why turbocharging is generally superior to a roots blower. If you uncork both cars to produce the power they are ALREADY capable of, but are limited based on tune, then the 55's don't have a leg to stand on. That is fact, you not liking it or coming up with an alternate reality of your own doesn't change it.
Now, if you have something relevant to the Roots vs Centrifugal vs Turbo discussion, then by all means post it...but if not, pipe down or start your own thread.
You enjoy your life. you are the fastest thign on the internet. you keep racing your keyboard and other peoplec cars in your mind, i'll keep racing my car. we can talk theory all day, the same motor with a turbo will always make more hp than the same boost with a supercharger, we all know that. you guys think that the v12 is SO MUCH FASTER than ths 55's and my point is that it isnt.
I concede th epoint a tunes 65 or 600 willbeat a 55, everyone knows that, the tt has more potential for sure, but that wasnt the point.
Last edited by GFEAR; Oct 14, 2009 at 01:15 PM.
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From: West Texas
Yes
You enjoy your life. you are the fastest thign on the internet. you keep racing your keyboard and other peoplec cars in your mind, i'll keep racing my car. we can talk theory all day, the same motor with a turbo will always make more hp than the same boost with a supercharger, we all know that. you guys think that the v12 is SO MUCH FASTER than ths 55's and my point is that it isnt.
I concede th epoint a tunes 65 or 600 willbeat a 55, everyone knows that, the tt has more potential for sure, but that wasnt the point.
Last edited by FormulaZR; Oct 14, 2009 at 01:36 PM.
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BUT, the original topic here was that his buddy thinks a turbo is better, and the OP thought a supercharger (roots, in this case) was better. He was requesting information in which to debate or concede. Also, the turbo car in question was a Nissan...so this thread didn't start out as 600 vs 55 as you seem to think it did.
So what are the advantages of a 55 to a 600/65 if any? besides the weight and cost (well not really cause a 600 and 55 used are around the same market point)...
there has to be some advantages to the 55 or SC setup...assuming that no lag is there in either setup...SC in the 55 vs. small quick spool turbos in the 600/65
Thats where it turned 55 vs 600, i didnt do it like you claim
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From: West Texas
Yes
MY POST WAS IN RESPONSE TO THIS :
So what are the advantages of a 55 to a 600/65 if any? besides the weight and cost (well not really cause a 600 and 55 used are around the same market point)...
there has to be some advantages to the 55 or SC setup...assuming that no lag is there in either setup...SC in the 55 vs. small quick spool turbos in the 600/65
Thats where it turned 55 vs 600, i didnt do it like you claim
So what are the advantages of a 55 to a 600/65 if any? besides the weight and cost (well not really cause a 600 and 55 used are around the same market point)...
there has to be some advantages to the 55 or SC setup...assuming that no lag is there in either setup...SC in the 55 vs. small quick spool turbos in the 600/65
Thats where it turned 55 vs 600, i didnt do it like you claim
You still have to admit though, that comparing stock for stock in this case isn't a valid comparison. We all know the 55 is tuned from AMG closer to its peak potential than the 600 is from MB. A car that was factory limited vs a car with an aggressive factory tune isn't apples to apples when you are talking potential...especially when it's the turbo car that was limited!
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SL 63 W/B AMG , S600,C220
Clarkson on Top Gear said it takes 100 bhp to turn a supercharger.
I prefer turbo's as they give a bigger rush of power, the supercharger feels
more like naturally aspirated, even if there the same power.
I prefer turbo's as they give a bigger rush of power, the supercharger feels
more like naturally aspirated, even if there the same power.
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From: West Texas
Yes
Really depends on the supercharger there...the smaller superchargers don't require anywhere near 100 hp to turn. If they did, the Mini Cooper S for instance would be better off without FI.
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SL 63 W/B AMG , S600,C220
the Jag and he had the SL55. They also differ, the way they work, I think he said his was a screw, I can, remember what the Jag was.
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The only results i can find comparing a 55 and 600 same driver same conditions.
both cars identical 0-60, the 600 slightly faster 60 to 120mph, the 55 better braking and faster slalom time. just as i expected. there is the differences for you.
both cars identical 0-60, the 600 slightly faster 60 to 120mph, the 55 better braking and faster slalom time. just as i expected. there is the differences for you.
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SL55 AMG
That was my post I was curious about the sl55 vs. the 600 and the 65...it's from a conversation I had with Jay over the weekend, it was just a discussion we had that's all. Didn't mean to get this whole thing off kilter or cause any ill feelings...
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new balance
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Maybe the majority of the cars on here, are modified, but there is no way the majority of the cars out there are modified. I have made my living in the automotive performance aftermarket for 14 years now, and believe me, its not even close to half and half, it just doesnt work that way.
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V12-Biturbo
It must really get your panties in a bunch that your 55 isn't the king of the road as you'd like to imagine? You could use DR's on your SL55 as others have in the Dragtimes examples, hell even w/ECU/TCU & Drag Rad's your SL55's NOT running 11.9x ET's you'd need to add a pulley to that list...P.S. Cat-back mufflers do Zero-Zip-Nada towards HP/TQ gains, though you should know this considering your mighty credentials LoL!
dont try to talk to me about drag racing, ive forgotten more about drag racing than you will ever know
I added the CL600/S600 models to this infantile discussion w/you due to lack of lighter STOCK SL600's having actual Dragtimes data I.E. Slip/track info etc... Point being ALL records show heavier S600/CL600 handily beat similarly modded or STOCK SL55 dwn the 1/4 in (1) case by up to half a sec or 5+ lengths.
Did you find that 1/4 mi slip w/your 113.9 Trap in 90 deg Tropcial
Thunder heat? Maybe after you figure out how to type w/OUT USING ALL CAPS? You can focus your attention on finding it, instead of being a hypocrite citing other viable data posted in this thread as bogus?
you are the fastest thign on the internet. you keep racing your keyboard and other peoplec cars in your mind, i'll keep racing my car.
I've never seen this Uber rare SL66 that you keep mentioning, & if you beat it? No doubt (1) of your infamous Miami/FLA Posers in action sportin' a tricked out SL500 w/K&N's
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Oh O.K. open n' shut case then It must really get your panties in a bunch that your 55 isn't the king of the road as you'd like to imagine? You could use DR's on your SL55 as others have in the Dragtimes examples, hell even w/ECU/TCU & Drag Rad's your SL55's NOT running 11.9x ET's you'd need to add a pulley to that list...
P.S. Cat-back mufflers do Zero-Zip-Nada towards HP/TQ gains, though you should know this considering your mighty credentials LoL!
Know this 40-50 more RWHP & 100 more RWTO in nearly equal curb weight SL600 will put you in high heels 24/7/365 on any road/track. Also the difference becomes more apparent @ speed, say you're on the frwy & want to pass a (4) door S600? Not gonna happen if the S600 owner isn't feeling courteous.
I added the CL600/S600 models to this infantile discussion w/you due to lack of lighter STOCK SL600's having actual Dragtimes data I.E. Slip/track info etc... Point being ALL records show heavier S600/CL600 handily beat similarly modded or STOCK SL55 dwn the 1/4 in (1) case by up to half a sec or 5+ lengths.
Did you find that 1/4 mi slip w/your 113.9 Trap in 90 deg TropcialThunder heat? Maybe after you figure out how to type w/OUT USING ALL CAPS? You can focus your attention on finding it, instead of being a hypocrite citing other viable data posted in this thread as bogus?
You should go to Lens Crafters & have your peepers chk'd I've never seen this Uber rare SL66 that you keep mentioning
It must really get your panties in a bunch that your 55 isn't the king of the road as you'd like to imagine? You could use DR's on your SL55 as others have in the Dragtimes examples, hell even w/ECU/TCU & Drag Rad's your SL55's NOT running 11.9x ET's you'd need to add a pulley to that list...P.S. Cat-back mufflers do Zero-Zip-Nada towards HP/TQ gains, though you should know this considering your mighty credentials LoL!
Know this 40-50 more RWHP & 100 more RWTO in nearly equal curb weight SL600 will put you in high heels 24/7/365 on any road/track. Also the difference becomes more apparent @ speed, say you're on the frwy & want to pass a (4) door S600? Not gonna happen if the S600 owner isn't feeling courteous.
I added the CL600/S600 models to this infantile discussion w/you due to lack of lighter STOCK SL600's having actual Dragtimes data I.E. Slip/track info etc... Point being ALL records show heavier S600/CL600 handily beat similarly modded or STOCK SL55 dwn the 1/4 in (1) case by up to half a sec or 5+ lengths.
Did you find that 1/4 mi slip w/your 113.9 Trap in 90 deg Tropcial
Thunder heat? Maybe after you figure out how to type w/OUT USING ALL CAPS? You can focus your attention on finding it, instead of being a hypocrite citing other viable data posted in this thread as bogus?You should go to Lens Crafters & have your peepers chk'd
I've never seen this Uber rare SL66 that you keep mentioningyes i did find my time slip.
who said i thought my car was king of the road? its not even in the top ten fastest cars i have owned. its not eveninthe top 3 now. i drive this car because its comfortable, roomy and has enough power i dont get bored and i like convertables.
you got some sort of ***** size issue that you gotta have the bigest fasted car bla bla bla. they are all the ****in same man, you are making a huge deal about tenths. and im not going to put drag radials on my car, know why? its not a damn race car! i will probably never run the car again, i have actual race cars for that. sorry that i let the car out of the bag your big bad v12 isnt any better than my little ittle v8.
