SL55/63/65/R230 AMG: SL55 vs. Z8
03-02-2003, 01:39 AM
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2003 Mercedes SL55
SL55 vs. Z8
I'm one of the lucky few people who have owned both the Z8 and the SL55. Actually, I ordered a replacement Z8 in the almost the same color combo as my SL55, but I ultimately decided that the SL55 was all I needed.
Both cars are the top of their respective manufacturers class. But the goals in making the cars are completely separate. The SL55 is the ultimate technological achievement of Mercedes, whereas the Z8 is some art-class design concept that somehow made it to production. Some of the technology that BMW is known for has entered the Z8, but then again BMW is not known for technology.
I used to be a BMW snob. Even today, I think BMW makes some of the best driving cars in the world. But something got lost in the translation for BMW, and that is that it has to get the other things right. I had a 7 series which I replaced with a CLK 320 because I had more confidence in the Mercedes technology than the BMW. (The case closer was when my iDrive crashed, and when I reset it, the lady was speaking to me in French. Lucky I'm fluent in french and figure out what to do, but it was humorous.)
What BMW is failing to realize is that MB is catching up in the driver's car category, and maybe, dare i say it, surpassing it.
The Z8 vs. SL55 is a perfect example of it.
Quality:
I drove the Z8 for about 10,000 miles (two long cross country trips included). And it was well built and all, but I had a lot of minor problems with it that were annoying. The biggest one was when the ignition switch failed. Apparently, for the want of a $2.00 plastic piece, my car was dead. Admittedly, I only have about 1000 miles on my SL55, but so far no problems. The fit and finish of the SL55 is superior to the Z8, especially with the top up. OK, if you put on the hard top (two person/20 minute job) on the Z8, the car feels better. But again, I had too many plastic pieces fail on the Z8 to be duly impressed with a $135,000 car.
Styling
This is totally subjective, and the Z8 board, once someone posts this link over there, will crucify me once again. But I just never got the Z8. It was form OVER function. And the function, frankly, sucked. The lack of a retractable hardtop on the Z8 was beyond me. And some design geek at BMW claimed that a retracting hardtop would destroy the retro lines of the Z8. So???? Retro for retro sakes is copying old styling and then brainwashing everyone into believing that it's cool. I wasn't sold. Retract the top. Get out of car. Open trunk. Get out torneau cover. Spend 10 minutes placing torneau cover on. Zip up wind screen. Geez, I already have my Starbucks in my hand by the time the Z8 guy gets his car read to ride. And where I have leather in in my SL55, I got plastic, shiny plastic on the dashboard of my Z8.
Ergonomics
Once again, the Z8 design nerds decided that the most important thing was let's get the retro styling right, screw the driver. Speedo in center of dash. Fine, I got used to it, until I got into another car. Then my brain had to adjust. Steering wheel adjustment sucked. Seat heating switch is next to thigh, so if you had anything in your pockets you turned the heat on. And BMW had two heat settings: very hot, and very f***ing hot. Ouch. Also, the ****pit seemed really tight and crowded in theZ8, almost like the Z3. The SL55 seems a bit wider, with more seat adjustment room.
Engine
It's a tie. I know the SL55 has 100 more horses, but the Z8 felt faster, the engine felt torquier, and the exhaust noise had a better note. MB engineers have to do a better job in translating those raw HP numbers into breathtaking speed. Now, I got to do things with the Z8 that I cannot do with the SL55. That is, Z8 owners get to spend 2 days at BMW performance center beating the crap out of someone elses Z8 (BMW's). You learn a lot about cars in an autocross, wet handling courses, and the such. By the way, MB ought to be offering its top customers the same benefit. So, the M5 engine in the Z8 is just a bit ahead of the AMG 55 engine.
Suspension
Another tie. BMW used to own this area, but at least the AMG cars are getting it. Frankly, my CL600 gets it too. The Z8 has this remarkable way of offering a lot of feeback from the road, yet if things got rough, it still handled perfectly. the SL55 has gotten there. Oh yes, the suspension raising feature on the SL55 is saving my front end, because the approach angle into my driveway is rather harsh on front ends. The ABC is just perfect.
Transmission
Sports cars should have, must have standard clutches and transmissions. OK, I used to be a snob like that. Now, I'm not so sure. The M3 SMGII is almost perfect as a shifter. The SL55's is close, but I wish it would blip the engine on a downshift. You can get more power out of a turn, IMHO. The Z8 transmission, except for the long throw, was just perfect no complaints. So, I'll call this a tie.
Technology
The Z8 had the following. A crappy stereo (although I argued against it, until I put in a custom stereo into my S6...oh my). A crappy Nav system with a tiny screen. A telephone system that barely worked (for example, it used the old Star Tac, and couldn't read the phone book properly in the phone). No park distance control on the Z8 (which caused me to ding the front bumper into my motorcycle....damn). The SL55 has an outstanding stereo, perfect Command system with Nav, and a pretty good phone. MB reigns superior over the BMW.
There are a couple of things that give the Z8 its uniqueness. There are many fewer Z8's on the road, and there will always be fewer. The Z8 production ends this year (and don't let the Z8 snobs tell you otherwise, the Alpina Roadster is a Z8 with an automatic and slightly different engine, but a rose by any other name is still a rose). There is a muscular look to the Z8 as opposed to the slightly feminine nose of the SL55. IMHO, the Z8 is more a man's car than the SL55, but that's because the SL500 is purely a chick's car. And mostly people can't tell the diff between the various SL's. I wish AMG would add a much more macho image to the detailing of the their cars.
I think both cars are wonderful machines. I personally don't get the design of the Z8, but like I said, it has a lot of defenders. And I enjoyed the looks the Z8 got when I owned it, because it was a unique throwback to the 50's. Frankly, it's a better design job by far than the ugly POS Thunderbird I see about.
In a race, the Z8 would take an SL55 by a nose hair. But that's only if a truly competent driver is in the Z8 because the SL55 will shift faster and better than the Z8. I wish I could afford both cars, but I do need one car to drive other people around, my CL600 (my personal SUV).
That's it. Don't flame me, cause these are my opinions, and that's all I have.
Both cars are the top of their respective manufacturers class. But the goals in making the cars are completely separate. The SL55 is the ultimate technological achievement of Mercedes, whereas the Z8 is some art-class design concept that somehow made it to production. Some of the technology that BMW is known for has entered the Z8, but then again BMW is not known for technology.
I used to be a BMW snob. Even today, I think BMW makes some of the best driving cars in the world. But something got lost in the translation for BMW, and that is that it has to get the other things right. I had a 7 series which I replaced with a CLK 320 because I had more confidence in the Mercedes technology than the BMW. (The case closer was when my iDrive crashed, and when I reset it, the lady was speaking to me in French. Lucky I'm fluent in french and figure out what to do, but it was humorous.)
What BMW is failing to realize is that MB is catching up in the driver's car category, and maybe, dare i say it, surpassing it.
The Z8 vs. SL55 is a perfect example of it.
Quality:
I drove the Z8 for about 10,000 miles (two long cross country trips included). And it was well built and all, but I had a lot of minor problems with it that were annoying. The biggest one was when the ignition switch failed. Apparently, for the want of a $2.00 plastic piece, my car was dead. Admittedly, I only have about 1000 miles on my SL55, but so far no problems. The fit and finish of the SL55 is superior to the Z8, especially with the top up. OK, if you put on the hard top (two person/20 minute job) on the Z8, the car feels better. But again, I had too many plastic pieces fail on the Z8 to be duly impressed with a $135,000 car.
Styling
This is totally subjective, and the Z8 board, once someone posts this link over there, will crucify me once again. But I just never got the Z8. It was form OVER function. And the function, frankly, sucked. The lack of a retractable hardtop on the Z8 was beyond me. And some design geek at BMW claimed that a retracting hardtop would destroy the retro lines of the Z8. So???? Retro for retro sakes is copying old styling and then brainwashing everyone into believing that it's cool. I wasn't sold. Retract the top. Get out of car. Open trunk. Get out torneau cover. Spend 10 minutes placing torneau cover on. Zip up wind screen. Geez, I already have my Starbucks in my hand by the time the Z8 guy gets his car read to ride. And where I have leather in in my SL55, I got plastic, shiny plastic on the dashboard of my Z8.
Ergonomics
Once again, the Z8 design nerds decided that the most important thing was let's get the retro styling right, screw the driver. Speedo in center of dash. Fine, I got used to it, until I got into another car. Then my brain had to adjust. Steering wheel adjustment sucked. Seat heating switch is next to thigh, so if you had anything in your pockets you turned the heat on. And BMW had two heat settings: very hot, and very f***ing hot. Ouch. Also, the ****pit seemed really tight and crowded in theZ8, almost like the Z3. The SL55 seems a bit wider, with more seat adjustment room.
Engine
It's a tie. I know the SL55 has 100 more horses, but the Z8 felt faster, the engine felt torquier, and the exhaust noise had a better note. MB engineers have to do a better job in translating those raw HP numbers into breathtaking speed. Now, I got to do things with the Z8 that I cannot do with the SL55. That is, Z8 owners get to spend 2 days at BMW performance center beating the crap out of someone elses Z8 (BMW's). You learn a lot about cars in an autocross, wet handling courses, and the such. By the way, MB ought to be offering its top customers the same benefit. So, the M5 engine in the Z8 is just a bit ahead of the AMG 55 engine.
Suspension
Another tie. BMW used to own this area, but at least the AMG cars are getting it. Frankly, my CL600 gets it too. The Z8 has this remarkable way of offering a lot of feeback from the road, yet if things got rough, it still handled perfectly. the SL55 has gotten there. Oh yes, the suspension raising feature on the SL55 is saving my front end, because the approach angle into my driveway is rather harsh on front ends. The ABC is just perfect.
Transmission
Sports cars should have, must have standard clutches and transmissions. OK, I used to be a snob like that. Now, I'm not so sure. The M3 SMGII is almost perfect as a shifter. The SL55's is close, but I wish it would blip the engine on a downshift. You can get more power out of a turn, IMHO. The Z8 transmission, except for the long throw, was just perfect no complaints. So, I'll call this a tie.
Technology
The Z8 had the following. A crappy stereo (although I argued against it, until I put in a custom stereo into my S6...oh my). A crappy Nav system with a tiny screen. A telephone system that barely worked (for example, it used the old Star Tac, and couldn't read the phone book properly in the phone). No park distance control on the Z8 (which caused me to ding the front bumper into my motorcycle....damn). The SL55 has an outstanding stereo, perfect Command system with Nav, and a pretty good phone. MB reigns superior over the BMW.
There are a couple of things that give the Z8 its uniqueness. There are many fewer Z8's on the road, and there will always be fewer. The Z8 production ends this year (and don't let the Z8 snobs tell you otherwise, the Alpina Roadster is a Z8 with an automatic and slightly different engine, but a rose by any other name is still a rose). There is a muscular look to the Z8 as opposed to the slightly feminine nose of the SL55. IMHO, the Z8 is more a man's car than the SL55, but that's because the SL500 is purely a chick's car. And mostly people can't tell the diff between the various SL's. I wish AMG would add a much more macho image to the detailing of the their cars.
I think both cars are wonderful machines. I personally don't get the design of the Z8, but like I said, it has a lot of defenders. And I enjoyed the looks the Z8 got when I owned it, because it was a unique throwback to the 50's. Frankly, it's a better design job by far than the ugly POS Thunderbird I see about.
In a race, the Z8 would take an SL55 by a nose hair. But that's only if a truly competent driver is in the Z8 because the SL55 will shift faster and better than the Z8. I wish I could afford both cars, but I do need one car to drive other people around, my CL600 (my personal SUV).
That's it. Don't flame me, cause these are my opinions, and that's all I have.
03-04-2003, 07:50 PM
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Orangemarlin,
Great comparison on both cars. I've admired the Z8, especially because it has the powertrain of my M5, since its debut. However, I just couldn't bring myself to spend that kind of money for THAT car. The SL55 on the other hand is a different story. The way I see it is this: It's great to have incredible performance and good style (you get that with both cars), but to also have wonderful technology, the quick-install hard top, and other (better) creature comforts really gives the edge to the SL55.
Thanks for the great comparison.
JB
Great comparison on both cars. I've admired the Z8, especially because it has the powertrain of my M5, since its debut. However, I just couldn't bring myself to spend that kind of money for THAT car. The SL55 on the other hand is a different story. The way I see it is this: It's great to have incredible performance and good style (you get that with both cars), but to also have wonderful technology, the quick-install hard top, and other (better) creature comforts really gives the edge to the SL55.
Thanks for the great comparison.
JB
03-05-2003, 12:22 PM
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2003 Mercedes SL55
Don't use the massage feature
It's on my SL55. But I just don't use it. So I consider it a wash between the cars. The ventilation, however, is important. On hot days, top down, ventilation is cool. 
Both cars are outstanding, I want that clear. I just prefer the SL55.
Both cars are outstanding, I want that clear. I just prefer the SL55.
03-05-2003, 10:38 PM
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BMW E39 M5
Okay, I'm a bit hurt. How exactly is CLK320 technologically superior to 745i?
As for your choice of SL55 over Z8, I don't blame you! SL55 is one heck of a car, slushbox or not.
As for your choice of SL55 over Z8, I don't blame you! SL55 is one heck of a car, slushbox or not.
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03-06-2003, 12:22 PM
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2003 Mercedes SL55
Not quite an even trade
I had a bunch of technical issues with the 745Li. Actually, it was in the shop so much, that I gave up, and I had a 9/02 build. I have minimal tolerance in bringing cars into the dealer for repairs, and my Z8 and 745i were the two worst.
BUT, I actually knew that I could get a CL600 when I gave up the 745Li for the CLK320. I commute with the CLK 320, because it saves on gas (I am a liberal Democrat environmental anti-war communist dope-smoking hippie). The CL600 is my SUV since it has lots of room with that 600 ft-lbs of torque to race very fast. It is a better car than the 745i in almost every way. Now, when the 760LI comes out, maybe I'll change my mind. I prefer coupes to sedans, so it might be difficult to convince me.
So. I think BMW needs some work. IMHO.
BUT, I actually knew that I could get a CL600 when I gave up the 745Li for the CLK320. I commute with the CLK 320, because it saves on gas (I am a liberal Democrat environmental anti-war communist dope-smoking hippie). The CL600 is my SUV since it has lots of room with that 600 ft-lbs of torque to race very fast. It is a better car than the 745i in almost every way. Now, when the 760LI comes out, maybe I'll change my mind. I prefer coupes to sedans, so it might be difficult to convince me.
So. I think BMW needs some work. IMHO.
03-06-2003, 01:06 PM
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BMW E39 M5
Oh, that makes sense, then. Replacing 745i with CL600 is much less insulting than with CLK320 
How do you like MB's Command sound/nav system compared to iDrive?
I'm going to miss iDrive in my M5, I think.
How do you like MB's Command sound/nav system compared to iDrive?
I'm going to miss iDrive in my M5, I think.
03-06-2003, 05:57 PM
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2003 Mercedes SL55
Command system is equivalent to BMW's voice system. Girl on Merc's system sounds like she'd go to bed with you. The guy on the BMW system isn't my type.
I got used to the iDrive. However, the push for everything digital is a bit annoying. Sometimes, analog is good. For example, your brain can calculate the time faster by looking at an analog watch rather than a digital watch. Samething with a digital vs. analog speedometer.
The point of all of these rants is that the iDrive may not actually reduce your looking away from the road, but may in fact increase it.
In my CL600, I can turn down the sound with a flick of the thumb. I can change temperature in the car fairly quickly. The nav system in all cars is a Pain. Takes too long to enter data. A retractible keyboard is required.
I think the complexity and reliability of the iDrive does a disservice to owners.
I got used to the iDrive. However, the push for everything digital is a bit annoying. Sometimes, analog is good. For example, your brain can calculate the time faster by looking at an analog watch rather than a digital watch. Samething with a digital vs. analog speedometer.
The point of all of these rants is that the iDrive may not actually reduce your looking away from the road, but may in fact increase it.
In my CL600, I can turn down the sound with a flick of the thumb. I can change temperature in the car fairly quickly. The nav system in all cars is a Pain. Takes too long to enter data. A retractible keyboard is required.
I think the complexity and reliability of the iDrive does a disservice to owners.
03-06-2003, 06:04 PM
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BMW E39 M5
Originally posted by orangemarlin
Girl on Merc's system sounds like she'd go to bed with you. The guy on the BMW system isn't my type.
Girl on Merc's system sounds like she'd go to bed with you. The guy on the BMW system isn't my type.
Dang, should have bought a Merc
03-07-2003, 03:42 AM
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AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
Originally posted by rost12
Oh, that makes sense, then. Replacing 745i with CL600 is much less insulting than with CLK320
How do you like MB's Command sound/nav system compared to iDrive?
I'm going to miss iDrive in my M5, I think.
Oh, that makes sense, then. Replacing 745i with CL600 is much less insulting than with CLK320
How do you like MB's Command sound/nav system compared to iDrive?
I'm going to miss iDrive in my M5, I think.
Btw. they tested the 760iL against an S600 and the BMW was seriously slower, couldn't keep up and used more gas in the process. Appearently the gas-saving valvetronic feature is only useful with a moderate driving style...
Data:
S600 (9,8 Sec. from 0-100 mph 15 sec. to 124 mph-200 km/h)
BMW (13 Sec. from 0-100 mph 20.5 sec. to 124 mph-200 km/h)
Wolfman
03-07-2003, 08:06 AM
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BMW E39 M5
Yeah, I've read the comparos of S600 and 760Li too. Considering 760Li pricing, I don't think they will be selling too good 
As for reviewers not liking iDrive - boohoo. I like it.
As for reviewers not liking iDrive - boohoo. I like it.
