soulsearcher

I will post links to great vids and pics this weekend. I had an in car camera.

I am sure more of you are curious about what I ended up with so here goes. I am sure this will create a lot of heat!!

I had VRPs 825 kit installed a cost of $$$$$ and got the car shipped back 2 weeks ago for the Texas mile. I also paid 3k to have the engine and turbos (exht manifolds) pulled to see about upgrading the k16s.

After 3 months of waiting I asked that the car be put back together since nothing was happening with the turbos. The project in my opinion was poorly managed.

In my discussions I was led to believe that the car would have about 650 rwhp.

Anyway, at the Texas mile I did a personal best of 173 mph (officially) and 177 (unofficially). I ran in one day 15 runs. More than anyone. I had a low of 166. I used 93 octane with no ice except for the 177 run.

By the way, the underground lambo with 1400 hp did 233 mph ($110K upgrade). If you want to know more PM me. I have spoken to Kevin (UGR) several times.

I dynode my car yesterday on the same dyno (dynojet) I have always used. My car did 473 rwhp with a renntech tune in April. Yesterday I did 530 rwhp. No torque readings. Temp was 65. Dyno reading were in 4th (Yes I know the trick to keep it in 4th vs 3rd and it has nothing to do with "dyno mode").

Dyno numbers are just that, and if your serious about dyno numbers then use the same dyno to baseline. Matching dyno rwhp from one car to another on different dynos is not accurate. I am sure I can find a dyno out their that will read 600 rwhp if I try enough of them.

I was told by VRP that my car dynode on a dyno dynamics at 525 or so and that dynojet reads 20% higher and so I should expect 630 rwhp. That obviously did not happen. I did find out that dyno dynamics dynos can easily be set to read just as a dynojet would.

My car does not have the heat soak issues it did have.

After getting my car back from VRP, I could tell within minute that I certainly did not have 630 rwhp (butt dyno). I estimated a slight power increase...maybe 515 or so. I was close !

Bottom line is this; Almost everyone at the Texas mile is a tuner (Hennessey, EVO, UGR). Its proving ground and HP talks and the rest walks. It was very obvious that to get to 185mph you need about 650 REAL rwhp. To get to 200 mph you need about 800 REAL RWHP.

Launching the car and drag radials had very little effect on the top speed (I changed out tires and experimented with all kinds of launches). Same thing was done by the guys next to me who had a twin turbo 950-1000hp corvette (199.8 mph).

Cant speak about k24s other than to say that Hartmet swapped out sl600 exht manifolds for sl65s and got 670 hp (crank). K16 just can not make over 550-600, so the fact that I got 670 or so, is beyond me. Bigger turbos like GT30/35s is what it will take. As for building up the motor, as I understand it, the 5.5 has forged pistons rods crank and cam but I am not 100% sure. I am sure its still a risk to run it at 1000 hp (real HP !) if we ever get there not to mention tranny issues.

I am committed to this project and one way or another I'll get it ...but might have to give up on the benz v12TT and go with "been there, done that".... UGR lambos. Not interested in 996, 997, vipers, supras or vetts---too many of them.

JC

NEMES1S

congrats on your run, I wish I could have seen your car, and the ugr lambo as well.

Akademiks

You did 473RWHP on a dynojet with a Renntech tune?

Thericker

If you got 530 rwhp on same reliable DJ you used before VRPpkg that would = 646 Crank not 670 18% is the most widely excepted DT loss factor on these 5 spd slush box MB's I.E. 530/.82= 646

The RENNtech tuned #'s you posted are very low, every healthy 600 TT I've seen on DJ's make avg 450-460 rwhp Bone Stock on CA 91 (w/93 tune ONLY you should make 500-530 rwhp on higher reading DJ's)

Considering RENNtech/Kleemann shelf tunes alone make avg 50 rwhp, your SL600 in stk form was making about 423 rwhp?? that's very low for any 600 on DJ, have a skilled MB tech chk your SL out thoroughly

soulsearcher

Who knows what the real deal is with dynos but like I said, using the same dyno to compare any change is the best I have to go by. It would be great if we can get 5 benz guys to run the mile and then compare notes. I am surprised that with so many benz nuts here (meant well), that I did not see many of you at the mile!! I will out there again in March. I can tell you it was a blast. One car that stoo out was the compound set up on a ford GT with 2 turbos feeding a supercharger. That car did 221 thru the mile and put down 1050 rwhp.

I will be using 105 octane (unleaded) for about 100 miles and then will get another dyno reading. This time I'll also get boost readings by T-ing into the map feed line.

John Hennessey of Hennessey Performance suggested taking the EZ route and setting up a 2-stage wet nitrous setup. Not sure about that?? He also was willing to try plugging GT30-32 garretts where the cats are now and offcourse fabing another turbo manifold. He was not sure how the Bosch engine management/fuel system would hold up.

NEMES1S

so you mean running the stock turbos and the gt30-32's? if you get this done, please get lots of pictures because it sounds like an insane project

Akademiks

Do it.

JAYCL600

Both the 65 and the 600 run K24 turbos, the 65 turbos have a slightly larger compressor wheel and compressor housing. Sorry we got cut off on the phone my battery died, lets chat again today.

DCMETRO22Z

there are three solutions if ya want to upgrade your turbos.

- SL65 turbos (been done by renntech on Mr Feyle 's personnal SL600)

- SL65 Black series turbos (Compressor wheel & turbine wheels slightly larger)

- Brabus T13 Or T65S kit, wich includes a Larger exhaust manifold, cast especially for brabus.


The must of the must would be Brabus exhaust manifold with SL65 BS Compressor, combined with VRP 825 elements (fat *** intercoolaz)

DCMETRO22Z

From AMG Website , about the SL65 Turbos:

"The Compressor ,turbine housing AND TURBINE WHEEL of each turbocharger are larger in size"

So there a are three "stages"

Stage 1 : K24 for 600 Engines

Stage 2 : K24 For 65 Engines (Both wheels are larger )

Stage 3 : ???? For 65 Black series engine ( Both wheels are even larger )

And there is brabus , who has casted a larger exhaust manifold containing a larger turbine wheel.

I wonder what is the size of the compressor wheel used in brabus turbochergers setup.

V12Godspeed

The turbos on a 65 Black series must cost some ridiculous money...Might as well go aftermarket probably, then you have the headache of making it fit on that tight little spot...ugh! Everything is difficult!

Marcus Frost

Guys we need to be bugging the new guy, PrecisionEngine (Pete) about doing turbos on these cars. You guys probably don't know who he really is but the guy builds some ridiculously fast cars and has been developing and fabricating turbo applications for years. I know he's not on here to solicit business, but he built a turbo for my old Supra which was just fantastic.

http://www.precisionturbo.net/

-m

DCMETRO22Z

OK but many people forget that the setup on MB V12 twin turbo engines is very particular :

The exhaust gas manifold and the Turbine wheel Housing are cast together IN ONE SINGLE PART.

So maybe Pete can fit a bigger compressor wheel, but if he wants to work on the exhaust side of the turbocharger , He must cast new exhaust manifold/turbine housing.

Brabus already does that, and it costs A HUGE LOAD OF BUCKS.

Akademiks

Instead of having to worry about fitting new turbos where the old ones are, why not add exhaust turbos? It'd be easier... no?

h-pobwp

Very interesting

DCMETRO22Z

Vadim wanted to do that , a quad turbo setup in a SL65 AMG. The project was cancelled.

Search for a thread called "1000HP amg's"

Akademiks

Yeah, yeah, yeah, car was stolen or repo'd

I meant someone seriously do it. Someone reputable, like the individual Marcus pointed out.

JAYCL600

ahhh irony....I think Precision was involved in this project and turned it down.

Marcus Frost

DC,

I appreciate the lesson but I am not new to this game. Casting manifolds is not rocket science. The Z32 300ZX guys (I used to be one) have cast manifolds available for their cars. While I totally understand the economies of scale, as there are many more 300ZXs than V12 Benzes, it is not on the magnitude Brabus would have you believe with their $30k turbo upgrades. You could still have the manifolds and turbo housings be separate in an upgrade.

These are made here in the USA, not overseas...

http://www.importpartspro.com/mismvgcamani.html

-m

JAYCL600

^^^also to add that casting and CAD work on this scale is not out of this world expensive...I use CAD/CAM everyday in my custom jewelry business.

NEMES1S

what would be much easier would be to build a new tubular manifold with a more common flange or even a v-band, that way there is flexibility and you could have several different applications using the same parts which would decrease cost and slightly increase the market that it could be sold to

Sunir

This is an interesting thread...i've wondered if ever it'd be possible to use exhaust turbos setup to the SL55 in conjuction with the SC ...hmmm; I think the tuning/engine managment would be the hardest part...talked to Jason Hefner the other day (he's from Glen Bernie MD originally and a friend of mione from back in the day when we were both into mustangs...before he became a turbo whiz on exotics and such) ...he told me that for the cost of ripping out the SC in the SL55 and putting on a custom twin turbo setup and tuning may as well sell the sl55 and go buy a used SL65 ...

NEMES1S

If anyone has a lightly used black sl65 with around 30-40k that they would like to sell for around 40k I'd be all over it, I do realize that at this number it would likely have twice this many miles or have a big fat salvage stamp on the title, but it's worth a shot. I'd also go an additional 2k for a nicely modded one....*cough amgfan cough cough*

Marcus Frost

Absolutely. CAD/CAM is not something you pick up overnight but it's not something that only the 3 richest kings of Europe know how to use either. These manifolds are made from very cost effective sand-castings and you could have the molds done in a day. To be quite honest for the cost of a Brabus turbo upgrade you could actually easily design, tool, and even cast a number of sets of your own manifolds... without going to China.

-m

OUTCAST

Very nice run sounds like a lot of fun out there.