SL55/63/65/R230 AMG: SL55 and Sl600
07-27-2010, 02:54 PM
#26
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A SL65 is just a fast barge, has no engagement,no excitement, no road holding, no noise and yet with 600 bhp gets eaten by 997 turbo's and GTR'S.
A SL55 is better, more nimble, more exhaust, even the sales guy said he preferred the 55 when he brought the 65 to me for a test drive.
A SL600 is a slower 65.
A SL63 is however a fusion of utter excitement, a mixture of cornering,ultra
fast gear change, pops and bangs on the overrun, great brakes ( not like the
soggy 65 and 55 )and fantastic looks. It has to be NO 1.
I am talking stock cars.
A SL55 is better, more nimble, more exhaust, even the sales guy said he preferred the 55 when he brought the 65 to me for a test drive.
A SL600 is a slower 65.
A SL63 is however a fusion of utter excitement, a mixture of cornering,ultra
fast gear change, pops and bangs on the overrun, great brakes ( not like the
soggy 65 and 55 )and fantastic looks. It has to be NO 1.
I am talking stock cars.
07-27-2010, 04:41 PM
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2007 Väth SL65 AMG. 2007 BMW Alpina B5s. 2007 BMW M6.
Where was it too difficult for you to catch up, son..?Let's see, where should I start..;
First of all, read the thread from the beginning (without yawning this time).
Then you'll notice that I'm mostly explaining the sound/tone of the 55 engine.
And then, I'm saying that it's typical for merc-V8's to sound like that, since the 63 also has about that same sound.
And that sound is veeery "non racing sounding".
To me, that is.
Then comes the comparison;
They basicly sound much like a Ducati motorcycle. (Perhaps was it here we lost you.)
I guess it partly has with the cylinder angles and stroking to do...
Anyway, to sum it up for you;
I find the sound of the 55's and the 63's, not as nice as the V12TT's.
Clearer..?
07-27-2010, 04:59 PM
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2007 Väth SL65 AMG. 2007 BMW Alpina B5s. 2007 BMW M6.
07-27-2010, 06:19 PM
#29
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V12-Biturbo
(They are ALL heavy pigs so please drop the handling
the SL600 weighs 4300 odd lbs nearly identical to the SL55, where the portly SL63 is 4500+ w/200 odd LESS TQ what's to compare)
07-27-2010, 08:31 PM
#30
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V12-Biturbo
I should've put a countdown stopwatch timer up..LOL
ricker,
My Sl55 went 12.0 flat @ 116mph 100% stock. I think the fastest recorded SL600 stock was only ONE tenth faster.
Do you really think that is "raping" or "humiliating" to the SL55?
A properly driven SL55 with an owner that knows how to handle the IAT's and heat soak would be dead even with a SL600.
BTW, I have still yet to see even a moded SL600 run my times at our local track.
My Sl55 went 12.0 flat @ 116mph 100% stock. I think the fastest recorded SL600 stock was only ONE tenth faster.
Do you really think that is "raping" or "humiliating" to the SL55?
A properly driven SL55 with an owner that knows how to handle the IAT's and heat soak would be dead even with a SL600.
BTW, I have still yet to see even a moded SL600 run my times at our local track.
Hardly ANY SL600 owners run their cars @ track, a BONE STOCK down to paper stock air filters HEAVIER CL600 has run 11.9x in the 1/4 the SL600 weighs about 200+ lbs less do the math...
I ran at PBIR (South Florida) a week and a half ago with the dragtimes.com crew.
It was 65 degree's out with a DA of around 400.
My car is 100% stock with only K&N drop in filters. No tune, no pullies and stock Toyo T1R tires.
I ripped off two 12.1's in a row. I have one of them on video but am still waiting on the person to upload it.
It was 65 degree's out with a DA of around 400.
My car is 100% stock with only K&N drop in filters. No tune, no pullies and stock Toyo T1R tires.
I ripped off two 12.1's in a row. I have one of them on video but am still waiting on the person to upload it.
From ALL the other records your car must have @ least a TUNE.Sunir's SL55 has an admitted ECU TUNE & you're DEAD EVEN...
12.03 @115 mph - w/ ecu flash only, 19" wheels & street tires - 10/30/09
Your OWN words below in answer to fellow members question on AVERAGE COMPLETELY STOCK SL55 1/4 mile ET...
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-bENZ
so is it normal for stock SL55 ?
Andy
No, the fastest times for stock SL55's are 12.4-12.5. Most people run high 12's.
Originally Posted by M-bENZ
so is it normal for stock SL55 ?
Andy
No, the fastest times for stock SL55's are 12.4-12.5. Most people run high 12's.
)EDIT: Why not be more straight up w/FACTS? your Record breaking run was done in -400 DA @ SEA LEVEL TRACK, extremly favorable weather conditions & highly irregular...
1/4 Mile ET: 12.096
1/4 Mile MPH: 115.980
1/8 Mile ET: 7.805
1/8 Mile MPH: 90.210
0-60 Foot ET: 1.789
VBOX 60-130 MPH:
Standing 1 Mile MPH:
Temperature F: 60.0
Density Altitude (DA): -400 feet
Last edited by Thericker; 07-27-2010 at 09:29 PM.
07-28-2010, 12:56 AM
#31
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V12-Biturbo
First off, Renntech themselves can attest as well as MANY highly respected people on this board that my car DID run a 12.096 @ 115.980 COMPLETELY 100% stock WITH the paper filters in my car.
I then added K&N filters which did nothing for my traps or ET.
This past January I had Renntech add their stage 1 pulley and tune. I have not returned to the drag strip with those modifications.
I have NEVER in my LIFE used ice on ANY of my cars. Anyone that knows me and has been to the drag strip with me knows this.
I did however drive the car between runs and then keep the car running to keep the IAT's down.
What does the standard SL600 run with the average driver on the average track? I'm sure it would run the same mid 12's the SL55 runs.
I don't think the SL600 is any faster than a SL55 stock to stock.
I then added K&N filters which did nothing for my traps or ET.
This past January I had Renntech add their stage 1 pulley and tune. I have not returned to the drag strip with those modifications.
I have NEVER in my LIFE used ice on ANY of my cars. Anyone that knows me and has been to the drag strip with me knows this.
I did however drive the car between runs and then keep the car running to keep the IAT's down.
What does the standard SL600 run with the average driver on the average track? I'm sure it would run the same mid 12's the SL55 runs.
I don't think the SL600 is any faster than a SL55 stock to stock.
Right...facts are facts your SL55 is running ET's NO OTHER completely stock SL55 can match, only an ECU Tuned SL55 etc matches your #'s...
I'm just quoting your OWN POSTS on your K&N's, yet now you refute even using them
I don't know if he's still a member but go ahead & PM Housofclass (SP) Bone STOCK CL600 ran 11.9x the CL600 weighs 4500+ lbs, SL600 weighs in 4300+ lbs
07-28-2010, 12:34 PM
#32
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Where was it too difficult for you to catch up, son..?Let's see, where should I start..;
First of all, read the thread from the beginning (without yawning this time).
Then you'll notice that I'm mostly explaining the sound/tone of the 55 engine.
And then, I'm saying that it's typical for merc-V8's to sound like that, since the 63 also has about that same sound.
And that sound is veeery "non racing sounding".
To me, that is.
Then comes the comparison;
They basicly sound much like a Ducati motorcycle. (Perhaps was it here we lost you.)
I guess it partly has with the cylinder angles and stroking to do...
Anyway, to sum it up for you;
I find the sound of the 55's and the 63's, not as nice as the V12TT's.
Clearer..?
07-28-2010, 12:47 PM
#33
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Please do not use the word rape, not necessary.
Getting back to the discussion, we are always comparing cars on 0ne basis,
and that's straight line speed, generally quarter's.
I am talking about the car as a whole, and you have to admit the 63 makes
a great noise, corners well, and has a superb gearbox.
To me the 600 and the 65 are very quiet,smooth fast armchairs, and if that's what turns you on that's fine, but apart from being a convertible you may as well have a E class coupe. It sure ain't like driving a sports car.
Getting back to the discussion, we are always comparing cars on 0ne basis,
and that's straight line speed, generally quarter's.
I am talking about the car as a whole, and you have to admit the 63 makes
a great noise, corners well, and has a superb gearbox.
To me the 600 and the 65 are very quiet,smooth fast armchairs, and if that's what turns you on that's fine, but apart from being a convertible you may as well have a E class coupe. It sure ain't like driving a sports car.
07-28-2010, 03:31 PM
#34
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SL55 AMG
ok guys here's the scoop...Clayton (BOR) has driven my SL55 and his SL600 on the same day in same conditions. Now each of our cars had a tune, mine had a basic stage 1 tune from LET, it's a can tune, nothing custom about it at all. Clay's had a tune but as fir the specs, he can chime in on that...I don't want to speak for another man's car. Otherwise the cars were 100% stock down to street tires, and I had stock filters, intake, exhaust etc... etc...I think clay might have had some sort of resonator delete muffler thing going there for sound or whatnot, heck I dunno...The track was MIR, 10/30/09.
Clay's time was 11.55 in his car, his time in mine was 12.0 ...Clay and I both felt very strongly that we could have gotten mine to 11.9 though for what it's worth.
His SL600 was faster, I don't think that the terms "rape" or "humiliate" really fit here, but yes, his SL600 was faster, no biggie...I'm happy for him, he's my friend and taught me a lot...he drives very well and has a fast car...it's a winning combo.
Stock for stock, we don't know, I strongly suspect the cars would be much more evenly matched and I say this because the v12TT takes much better to tune only (turbo) application compared to the V8K - since most of the gains for Supercharger can be realized through mechanical changes such as pulley size alteration.
Clay's time was 11.55 in his car, his time in mine was 12.0 ...Clay and I both felt very strongly that we could have gotten mine to 11.9 though for what it's worth.
His SL600 was faster, I don't think that the terms "rape" or "humiliate" really fit here, but yes, his SL600 was faster, no biggie...I'm happy for him, he's my friend and taught me a lot...he drives very well and has a fast car...it's a winning combo.
Stock for stock, we don't know, I strongly suspect the cars would be much more evenly matched and I say this because the v12TT takes much better to tune only (turbo) application compared to the V8K - since most of the gains for Supercharger can be realized through mechanical changes such as pulley size alteration.
Last edited by Sunir; 07-28-2010 at 03:37 PM.
07-28-2010, 03:50 PM
#35
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Please do not use the word rape, not necessary.
Getting back to the discussion, we are always comparing cars on 0ne basis,
and that's straight line speed, generally quarter's.
I am talking about the car as a whole, and you have to admit the 63 makes
a great noise, corners well, and has a superb gearbox.
To me the 600 and the 65 are very quiet,smooth fast armchairs, and if that's what turns you on that's fine, but apart from being a convertible you may as well have a E class coupe. It sure ain't like driving a sports car.
Getting back to the discussion, we are always comparing cars on 0ne basis,
and that's straight line speed, generally quarter's.
I am talking about the car as a whole, and you have to admit the 63 makes
a great noise, corners well, and has a superb gearbox.
To me the 600 and the 65 are very quiet,smooth fast armchairs, and if that's what turns you on that's fine, but apart from being a convertible you may as well have a E class coupe. It sure ain't like driving a sports car.
07-28-2010, 04:07 PM
#36
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SL55 AMG
1/4 mile is a known index of performance measure. This is not based on style points it's based on data. SL63 is not as fast as SL55, 600, or 65. Period. Not talking about how pretty the cars are or front grilles or sound, or wind scarf, or comfort, or this, that, or the other. Just on hardcore performance. And if you bring the argument of SL63 being faster on a road course we would need the comparision data with same condtions, same driver to make that point.
07-28-2010, 04:24 PM
#37
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I bought mine for the cool fins on the hood and side inlets...
Really, I would say the SL63 is probably the more "nimble" of the bunch but I bought my car as a convertible GT/cruise missle and not a sports car...I would have bought a GT3 if I felt I could actually drive it to its potential. I knew going in it just doesn't have the chops (along with my lack of talent going around curves...straight ahead is another thing) to be autocross king.
PS It can come down to the ability of the driver...I am sure a competent driver in a "boat" like a 2006 SL600/65 would beat the more "nimble" 2010 SL63 whose driver was say like me (a schmo off the street with no autocross experience).
Really, I would say the SL63 is probably the more "nimble" of the bunch but I bought my car as a convertible GT/cruise missle and not a sports car...I would have bought a GT3 if I felt I could actually drive it to its potential. I knew going in it just doesn't have the chops (along with my lack of talent going around curves...straight ahead is another thing) to be autocross king.
PS It can come down to the ability of the driver...I am sure a competent driver in a "boat" like a 2006 SL600/65 would beat the more "nimble" 2010 SL63 whose driver was say like me (a schmo off the street with no autocross experience).
07-28-2010, 05:11 PM
#38
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SL55
Where was it too difficult for you to catch up, son..?Let's see, where should I start..;
First of all, read the thread from the beginning (without yawning this time).
Then you'll notice that I'm mostly explaining the sound/tone of the 55 engine.
And then, I'm saying that it's typical for merc-V8's to sound like that, since the 63 also has about that same sound.
And that sound is veeery "non racing sounding".
To me, that is.
Then comes the comparison;
They basicly sound much like a Ducati motorcycle. (Perhaps was it here we lost you.)
I guess it partly has with the cylinder angles and stroking to do...
Anyway, to sum it up for you;
I find the sound of the 55's and the 63's, not as nice as the V12TT's.
Clearer..?
Last edited by Brent72; 07-28-2010 at 05:14 PM.
07-28-2010, 05:29 PM
#39
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2007 Väth SL65 AMG. 2007 BMW Alpina B5s. 2007 BMW M6.
What makes you say that..?
It seems more to me, that you're the only one here clueless of what I'm talking about...
But I can see why it comes in handy to act a bit as a retard at the moment!
Probably, I was sooo accurate in discribing and so totally spot on, that you're just finding it embarrasing to own one...
It seems more to me, that you're the only one here clueless of what I'm talking about...
But I can see why it comes in handy to act a bit as a retard at the moment!
Probably, I was sooo accurate in discribing and so totally spot on, that you're just finding it embarrasing to own one...
07-28-2010, 07:16 PM
#41
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V12-Biturbo
WOW you're truly lost...
What are you talking about? Didn't you read my response above? I used K&N's after my fastest recorded runs. The car went slower with them by a tenth.
Bottom line is the SL600 is not an AMG. It's an SL500 with a big engine. The SL500 drives like crap compared to the SL55. Sloppy steering, bouncy suspension, bad brakes. Not to mention the plain interior.
I've driven a couple SL600's and they feel just like the SL500's do. Blah!
Bottom line is the SL600 is not an AMG. It's an SL500 with a big engine. The SL500 drives like crap compared to the SL55. Sloppy steering, bouncy suspension, bad brakes. Not to mention the plain interior.
I've driven a couple SL600's and they feel just like the SL500's do. Blah!
Same as an SL500 ehh?
I guess you also missed the interior of the 600? It has nappa glove soft leather everywhere including slightly relaxed/folded leather on door trim vs the AMG it has the harder NON napa leather unless SPECIALLY ORDERED, & wood steering wheel also sporting your precious AMG shift paddles, you think these little reasons besides the superior motor w/50 more HP & 100 odd TQ would account for the LARGER original factory sticker price vs your prized AMG Both have EXACT SAME ABC suspension, the AMG is set a bit firmer, the 600 has the SAME sport/comfort modes & w/simple lowering thru either links or module they'll handle identical.
Now all of a sudden you claim the K&N's made you a tenth slower
get your STORY straight
What are you talking about? Didn't you read my response above? I used K&N's after my fastest recorded runs. The car went slower with them by a tenth.
I then added K&N filters which did nothing for my traps or ET.
Try pulling someone elses leg
the ONLY WAY you'll gain a tenth w/airfilters is by TAKING THEM OUT COMPLETELY, plenty of guys do this & worse for a tenth. NO way NO how is STOCK restrictive paper filter netting you a tenth vs K&N's what a bunch of 
Or maybe your record breaking run in negative -400 DA accounted for that extra tenth? Yeah that seems most likely..No doubt it's a unordinarly fast STOCK
SL55 what Tune do you have again
My fav quote from you answering another members Q's again
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-bENZ
so is it normal for stock SL55 ?
Andy
No, the fastest times for stock SL55's are 12.4-12.5. Most people run high 12's.
Originally Posted by M-bENZ
so is it normal for stock SL55 ?
Andy
No, the fastest times for stock SL55's are 12.4-12.5. Most people run high 12's.
07-28-2010, 07:25 PM
#42
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SL55 AMG
things are getting heated up between FLSL55 and good 'ole Ricker ...you guys need to meet up and race or something...
FLSL55 you had your car for sale and no longer it seems...what happened? Why the change of heart?
...you guys need to meet up and race or something...FLSL55 you had your car for sale and no longer it seems...what happened? Why the change of heart?
07-28-2010, 07:38 PM
#43
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Sunir,
I am going to wait another half year for GTR prices to drop into the mid 50's.
The only car I would take over my SL at this moment is the GT-R. A few of my friends have them and they are just insanely fast. Not the best looking car, but damn dude are they fast!
With just a tune and drop in filters my friends 09 ran a 10.92 @ 129mph! No other mods.
Here is the video of the car doing a sub 3 second 0-60 and the 10 second run.
http://tothefloor.com/gt-r-0-60-in-2...n-the-14-mile/
Sorry for the OT.
I am going to wait another half year for GTR prices to drop into the mid 50's.
The only car I would take over my SL at this moment is the GT-R. A few of my friends have them and they are just insanely fast. Not the best looking car, but damn dude are they fast!
With just a tune and drop in filters my friends 09 ran a 10.92 @ 129mph! No other mods.
Here is the video of the car doing a sub 3 second 0-60 and the 10 second run.
http://tothefloor.com/gt-r-0-60-in-2...n-the-14-mile/
Sorry for the OT.
07-28-2010, 07:40 PM
#44
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V12-Biturbo
LOL you are a RUBE! Did you just fall off the turnip truck?
Ricker,
Now your pissing me off. Call Hartmut the OWNER of Renntech and ask him if my car had ANY modifications or software when he had his guys install my stage 1 kit.
He is a personal friend of mine and we both confirmed my car was stock (this includes stock software) before they uploaded the tune and put the pulley on. The before and after dyno also proved this.
You’re not worth my time anymore. You’re on the IGNORE LIST from now on dude.
Now your pissing me off. Call Hartmut the OWNER of Renntech and ask him if my car had ANY modifications or software when he had his guys install my stage 1 kit.
He is a personal friend of mine and we both confirmed my car was stock (this includes stock software) before they uploaded the tune and put the pulley on. The before and after dyno also proved this.
You’re not worth my time anymore. You’re on the IGNORE LIST from now on dude.
I'm shakingThey wanted to SELL YOU A TUNE Dorthy, so obviously they're going to deny ANY prior software especially if wasn't there SOFTWARE
Dyno's as you should know don't paint the ENTIRE picture your ET's Traps do...POP your pulley off & run her then report back
Sunir's results SPEAK VOLUMES & you cement this w/your very own research/posts on how every OTHER TRULY STOCK SL55 runs 12.4-12.5 @ best, but MOST RUN high 12's thanks for the info champ
EDIT: Thought you were going to place me on IGNORE Dorthy?
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Send Message User Lists Last Activity: Today 04:42 PM
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Last edited by Thericker; 07-28-2010 at 07:44 PM.
07-28-2010, 07:43 PM
#45
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SL55 AMG
Sunir,
I am going to wait another half year for GTR prices to drop into the mid 50's.
The only car I would take over my SL at this moment is the GT-R. A few of my friends have them and they are just insanely fast. Not the best looking car, but damn dude are they fast!
With just a tune and drop in filters my friends 09 ran a 10.92 @ 129mph! No other mods.
Here is the video of the car doing a sub 3 second 0-60 and the 10 second run.
http://tothefloor.com/gt-r-0-60-in-2...n-the-14-mile/
Sorry for the OT.
I am going to wait another half year for GTR prices to drop into the mid 50's.
The only car I would take over my SL at this moment is the GT-R. A few of my friends have them and they are just insanely fast. Not the best looking car, but damn dude are they fast!
With just a tune and drop in filters my friends 09 ran a 10.92 @ 129mph! No other mods.
Here is the video of the car doing a sub 3 second 0-60 and the 10 second run.
http://tothefloor.com/gt-r-0-60-in-2...n-the-14-mile/
Sorry for the OT.
now lets see it drop the hardtop and cruise the boulevard haha j/k I love the GTR it's an epic car for sure!
just needs to do some more research before flappin' his gums/keyboard
07-28-2010, 09:09 PM
#47
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Eurocharged 2004 E500, Eurocharged ECU/TCU 2005 SL600, 2010 Caddy SwaggerWagon
I would like to take the time to mention that I forgot the SL550 in my list.
Carry on.
And Sunir, my 11.55 run was with a completely stock car, save for the shelf tune. Hell, it was on all-season tires! Sunir's car felt strong to me when I drove it. The power delivery was very different, though. I was very surprised with the 7 12.0x runs hot lapping. But make no mistake, the SL600 is faster in stock and modded ( dollar for dollar) form
Carry on.
And Sunir, my 11.55 run was with a completely stock car, save for the shelf tune. Hell, it was on all-season tires! Sunir's car felt strong to me when I drove it. The power delivery was very different, though. I was very surprised with the 7 12.0x runs hot lapping. But make no mistake, the SL600 is faster in stock and modded ( dollar for dollar) form
07-28-2010, 11:29 PM
#48
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V12-Biturbo
My car dynod at 416rwhp and 482 torque stock before the tune and pulley.
NO WAY did my car have a tune with those numbers. HAH!
I ran my 12 second run at those same hp levels.
I think it comes down to the fact that I drove the car between runs and then kept it running to keep the IAT's down between 110-120F before each run.
I also know how to get the car off the line for consistent sub 1.8 60 foots.
I have the 6th generation of the OEM intercooler pump in my car as well. (MUCH better than the CM30 Johnson pump) It helps keep the IAT's down at the long end of the track.
NO WAY did my car have a tune with those numbers. HAH!
I ran my 12 second run at those same hp levels.
I think it comes down to the fact that I drove the car between runs and then kept it running to keep the IAT's down between 110-120F before each run.
I also know how to get the car off the line for consistent sub 1.8 60 foots.
I have the 6th generation of the OEM intercooler pump in my car as well. (MUCH better than the CM30 Johnson pump) It helps keep the IAT's down at the long end of the track.
From there charts you gained near 40 rwhp & 60 rwtq def should be Trapping 119-120 now
Lastly using DynoJet comparo, the SL600 makes your TUNED/PULLEY #'s BONE STOCK & actually on AVERAGE even more TQ I.E. 540-560 rwtq & 440-460 rwhp is average on DynoJet for M275 v12...
My SL600 w/ONLY muffler delete & CAI & proper cool down before runs made 501 rwhp on DynoJet (No TQ was recorded but estimated @ 575-600 rwtq) This was in the middle of So Cal Summer 95-100 deg heat
After ECU tune & Dwn Pipes/IC Reservoir, w/91 octane she made 565 rwhp 700 rwtq on DynoDynamics
Then later @ another shop, on DynoJet w/100 octane & Reservoir stuffed w/ice we saw 633 rwhp & educated guesstimate TQ @ roughly 770+ rwtq
Last edited by Thericker; 07-29-2010 at 03:14 AM.
07-29-2010, 11:05 AM
#49
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Sunir.. even if you prefer the looks and the speed of your 55, you have to at least admit the gearbox and exhaust are better, which in the UK is more important.
07-29-2010, 12:29 PM
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Eurocharged 2004 E500, Eurocharged ECU/TCU 2005 SL600, 2010 Caddy SwaggerWagon
I hate to agree with anything you say, but you're 100% right about the gearbox and exhaust song in the SL63 being better. In stock form, of course...
