SL55/63/65/R230 AMG: Mystery Power
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2006 SL65 ///AMG - GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN: 2005 E55; 2002 ML55; 2001 CLK55; 1992 BMW 850i; 1991 M5
Mystery Power
Loving the SL65. Its an 06 with KLEEMANN ECU/TCU and a Johnson CM30 pump. Stock HE. (Gotta do something about that) I had all new plugs and all new fluids installed while waiting for the round-trip delivery to and from Kleemann.
Previous car was an 05 E55, Kleemann ECU/Pulley, EVO cooling kit, CF airbox, resonator delete. No slouch.
I have noticed several times while driving that the SL just felt 'dead' for lack of a better term. Kompressed car just flat was explosive - spooled car sometimes seems lazy. BUT - it has been pretty hot here of late - mid 90s.
SO - I wondered if the Johnson CM30 just wasn't all that or if maybe I got an air pocket in the intercooler circuit during install?
THEN - I wondered if I just drive the car way too sedately the vast majority of the time. It is my daily driver in tight city traffic. SO I just decided to throttle her a few times over the course of a few days and the power just seemed to magically re-appear. I also did the adaptive reset sith the key and throttle (sneaky ECU reset) and the car is just a beast. Even on a hot day after a couple of good gooses, she will still just light 'em up at 30-40 mph in 2nd gear. Don't even turn the traction control off, the car will spin right into oncoming traffic.
Has anyone else noticed that these 65 cars do tend to 'adapt' to gentle driving pretty thoroughly and really wake up after more aggressive driving or clearing the adaptive driving parameters?
Would air in the intercooler system provide such extremely intermittent symptoms? Fine sometimes and noticably lazy others?
I sure don't mind springing for a better H2O pump if the Johnson CM30 just isn't enough. Any experience, thoughts GREATLY appreciated.
Previous car was an 05 E55, Kleemann ECU/Pulley, EVO cooling kit, CF airbox, resonator delete. No slouch.
I have noticed several times while driving that the SL just felt 'dead' for lack of a better term. Kompressed car just flat was explosive - spooled car sometimes seems lazy. BUT - it has been pretty hot here of late - mid 90s.
SO - I wondered if the Johnson CM30 just wasn't all that or if maybe I got an air pocket in the intercooler circuit during install?
THEN - I wondered if I just drive the car way too sedately the vast majority of the time. It is my daily driver in tight city traffic. SO I just decided to throttle her a few times over the course of a few days and the power just seemed to magically re-appear. I also did the adaptive reset sith the key and throttle (sneaky ECU reset) and the car is just a beast. Even on a hot day after a couple of good gooses, she will still just light 'em up at 30-40 mph in 2nd gear. Don't even turn the traction control off, the car will spin right into oncoming traffic.
Has anyone else noticed that these 65 cars do tend to 'adapt' to gentle driving pretty thoroughly and really wake up after more aggressive driving or clearing the adaptive driving parameters?
Would air in the intercooler system provide such extremely intermittent symptoms? Fine sometimes and noticably lazy others?
I sure don't mind springing for a better H2O pump if the Johnson CM30 just isn't enough. Any experience, thoughts GREATLY appreciated.
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From: Tampa, Florida
06 SL65 / 97 993tt /11 Suburban/ 2012 GTR (AMG è la mia Famiglia la Bestia è la mia protezione)
Loving the SL65. Its an 06 with KLEEMANN ECU/TCU and a Johnson CM30 pump. Stock HE. (Gotta do something about that) I had all new plugs and all new fluids installed while waiting for the round-trip delivery to and from Kleemann.
Previous car was an 05 E55, Kleemann ECU/Pulley, EVO cooling kit, CF airbox, resonator delete. No slouch.
I have noticed several times while driving that the SL just felt 'dead' for lack of a better term. Kompressed car just flat was explosive - spooled car sometimes seems lazy. BUT - it has been pretty hot here of late - mid 90s.
SO - I wondered if the Johnson CM30 just wasn't all that or if maybe I got an air pocket in the intercooler circuit during install?
THEN - I wondered if I just drive the car way too sedately the vast majority of the time. It is my daily driver in tight city traffic. SO I just decided to throttle her a few times over the course of a few days and the power just seemed to magically re-appear. I also did the adaptive reset sith the key and throttle (sneaky ECU reset) and the car is just a beast. Even on a hot day after a couple of good gooses, she will still just light 'em up at 30-40 mph in 2nd gear. Don't even turn the traction control off, the car will spin right into oncoming traffic.
Has anyone else noticed that these 65 cars do tend to 'adapt' to gentle driving pretty thoroughly and really wake up after more aggressive driving or clearing the adaptive driving parameters?
Would air in the intercooler system provide such extremely intermittent symptoms? Fine sometimes and noticably lazy others?
I sure don't mind springing for a better H2O pump if the Johnson CM30 just isn't enough. Any experience, thoughts GREATLY appreciated.
Previous car was an 05 E55, Kleemann ECU/Pulley, EVO cooling kit, CF airbox, resonator delete. No slouch.
I have noticed several times while driving that the SL just felt 'dead' for lack of a better term. Kompressed car just flat was explosive - spooled car sometimes seems lazy. BUT - it has been pretty hot here of late - mid 90s.
SO - I wondered if the Johnson CM30 just wasn't all that or if maybe I got an air pocket in the intercooler circuit during install?
THEN - I wondered if I just drive the car way too sedately the vast majority of the time. It is my daily driver in tight city traffic. SO I just decided to throttle her a few times over the course of a few days and the power just seemed to magically re-appear. I also did the adaptive reset sith the key and throttle (sneaky ECU reset) and the car is just a beast. Even on a hot day after a couple of good gooses, she will still just light 'em up at 30-40 mph in 2nd gear. Don't even turn the traction control off, the car will spin right into oncoming traffic.
Has anyone else noticed that these 65 cars do tend to 'adapt' to gentle driving pretty thoroughly and really wake up after more aggressive driving or clearing the adaptive driving parameters?
Would air in the intercooler system provide such extremely intermittent symptoms? Fine sometimes and noticably lazy others?
I sure don't mind springing for a better H2O pump if the Johnson CM30 just isn't enough. Any experience, thoughts GREATLY appreciated.
PDC...I have the same setup as you except with an aftermarket heat exchanger. To be honest with you, I've never felt that "dead feeling" you've described. I like to drive it in manual for a bit though especially high way driving...then in just regular manual mode.
PURE speculation, it may be that the adaptive reset is helped by the occasional aggressive driving. I don't drive it as often as you so that is why I tend to drive it in manual mode more...my DD is my Accent...
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2006 SL65 ///AMG - GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN: 2005 E55; 2002 ML55; 2001 CLK55; 1992 BMW 850i; 1991 M5
Heat Exchanger Advice
Thank you! Can you tell me about your heat exchanger set up? Did you need to fabricate the brackets and plumbing? I am looking for something with minimal fabrication for my service team. Renntech looks very complete and foolproof as far as install, but it is foolishly expensive. I wish EVO made a V12 kit. I loved their 55 kit and it was very reasonably priced.
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From: Tampa, Florida
06 SL65 / 97 993tt /11 Suburban/ 2012 GTR (AMG è la mia Famiglia la Bestia è la mia protezione)
^^^Thanks...
Here is thread re: heat exchanger. Marcus Frost gave me heads up on the HE...it was shipped down to me. I am not sure if they are mass producing them now or doing them to spec...
https://mbworld.org/forums/sl55-amg-...ger-sl65s.html
Jon
PS I have had no issues with it at all...
Here is thread re: heat exchanger. Marcus Frost gave me heads up on the HE...it was shipped down to me. I am not sure if they are mass producing them now or doing them to spec...
https://mbworld.org/forums/sl55-amg-...ger-sl65s.html
Jon
PS I have had no issues with it at all...
Thread Starter
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2006 SL65 ///AMG - GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN: 2005 E55; 2002 ML55; 2001 CLK55; 1992 BMW 850i; 1991 M5
Awesome! So, all I need to do is call Al @ CPT: (708) 343-8677. Sounds like the HE fit with no major modifications or fabrication?
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2006 SL65 ///AMG - GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN: 2005 E55; 2002 ML55; 2001 CLK55; 1992 BMW 850i; 1991 M5
P.S. These will NEVER keep up with the SL or heaven forbid the GTR, but here are my weekend cruisers!
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You have two shraeder valves at the intercoolers. When engine is cold and running remove cover from each valve and momentarily press the needle on each one. Is coolant shooting out? If yes, your pump is most likely working and system is bled properly. If no strong stream - you have a problem.
Driving the car in sports mode for tranny should feel very lively and the car should not snooze regardless of your driving habits.
Driving the car in sports mode for tranny should feel very lively and the car should not snooze regardless of your driving habits.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Tampa, Florida
06 SL65 / 97 993tt /11 Suburban/ 2012 GTR (AMG è la mia Famiglia la Bestia è la mia protezione)
Thread Starter
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2006 SL65 ///AMG - GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN: 2005 E55; 2002 ML55; 2001 CLK55; 1992 BMW 850i; 1991 M5
alx - thank you. I always wondered how to determine whether or no you had any air caught in the circuit. I will do that today. Based in the way she drove last night, I'm betting everything is fine. I think the factory H/E just doesn't hold or move enough coolant to satisfy the ECU tune on a really hot day.
Last edited by PDC; Jul 10, 2012 at 02:33 PM. Reason: sp
Thread Starter
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2006 SL65 ///AMG - GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN: 2005 E55; 2002 ML55; 2001 CLK55; 1992 BMW 850i; 1991 M5
Dead again
Well, the ol' 65 went dead on me again. Friday on the way to cruise nite my neighbor and I got a little frisky. BTW - he bought my Kleemann E55 when I made the move to the 65. The E has Kleemann pulley, ECU, Headers, primary cat delete, EVO cooling kit, & CF airbox. It is no joke. But still should be hovering around the 575 hp mark. The 65 should be around 650 with the Kleemann ECU/TCU. Traction control off, floored it, and the SL wouldn't (couldn't) break the tires loose. My old E pulled me hard.
So, I just ordered the Bosch "010" intercooler pump online and have an appointment to get it installed next Monday morning, July 9. I will post results. I want my power back!?!?!?!?!?!?!
So, I just ordered the Bosch "010" intercooler pump online and have an appointment to get it installed next Monday morning, July 9. I will post results. I want my power back!?!?!?!?!?!?!
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Well, the ol' 65 went dead on me again. Friday on the way to cruise nite my neighbor and I got a little frisky. BTW - he bought my Kleemann E55 when I made the move to the 65. The E has Kleemann pulley, ECU, Headers, primary cat delete, EVO cooling kit, & CF airbox. It is no joke. But still should be hovering around the 575 hp mark. The 65 should be around 650 with the Kleemann ECU/TCU. Traction control off, floored it, and the SL wouldn't (couldn't) break the tires loose. My old E pulled me hard.
So, I just ordered the Bosch "010" intercooler pump online and have an appointment to get it installed next Monday morning, July 9. I will post results. I want my power back!?!?!?!?!?!?!
So, I just ordered the Bosch "010" intercooler pump online and have an appointment to get it installed next Monday morning, July 9. I will post results. I want my power back!?!?!?!?!?!?!
a pump might or might not be your problem.
btw, flooring a healthy stock sl65 from anything less than 60 should produce tirespin and the car should slalom looking for traction well into triple digit speeds...
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2006 SL65 ///AMG - GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN: 2005 E55; 2002 ML55; 2001 CLK55; 1992 BMW 850i; 1991 M5
Sorry, alx - good point. I did check both valves and got a steady, but low pressure burble of fluid form each one at start up with the motor still cool. I did gently wind her up to 2200 rpms before checking to make sure that the ECU would have triggered the IC pump. But I checked the system at cool idle.
I have read that sometimes the johnson CM30 (and maybe others as well) will move fluid at low pressure and low temp conditions, but peters out as temps and pressures go up.
This morning it was only 80 degrees and the car would literally rip your head off at WOT. I parked at the courthouse for a 45 minute hearing and on the way back to the office, it felt like I was running at half power.
I ain't no mechanic, but the symptoms sure seems to fit all the threads that have resulted in discovery of a dead or dying IC pump.
I am also ready to pull the trigger on a Eurocharged Heat Exchanger.
I have read that sometimes the johnson CM30 (and maybe others as well) will move fluid at low pressure and low temp conditions, but peters out as temps and pressures go up.
This morning it was only 80 degrees and the car would literally rip your head off at WOT. I parked at the courthouse for a 45 minute hearing and on the way back to the office, it felt like I was running at half power.
I ain't no mechanic, but the symptoms sure seems to fit all the threads that have resulted in discovery of a dead or dying IC pump.
I am also ready to pull the trigger on a Eurocharged Heat Exchanger.
Last edited by PDC; Jul 2, 2012 at 04:37 PM. Reason: sp
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From: Burma
Which move point A to point B.
Got one question tho. I m living in hot climate place. So thinking about to buy Secondary HE my car is sl55 Amg n pls guide me to the right product. I been reading across on this forum n found the handful of products. Rent tech, evosport, euro charged n kleemann. Among those what product is excellent for the price n quality.
Thanks,
Thanks,
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2006 SL65 ///AMG - GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN: 2005 E55; 2002 ML55; 2001 CLK55; 1992 BMW 850i; 1991 M5
Evosport! Had it in my compressed E car which my neighbor now ownes. Awesome kit. Very high quality components. Phenolic spacers included. Car is a Beast - even on the hottest days. Neighbor shamed the proud 65 the other day in 101* heat. EVO. You won't regret it.
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From: Burma
Which move point A to point B.
Thanks for the input PDC. Yeah EVO seems like a decent product, but I have learn from this forum that they r over due to ship out their product. Is that true? Pulse I have an oil cooler sticking front of my Radiator. Where am I gonna install secondary HE? front of the oil cooler or in between of oil cooler n radiator? Sorry for been noob, I have to learn step by step. In the country I live we don't have Official MB dealer when things go wrong.
Even now having a ABS n ESP problem n my right side of the Low beam has been dipped. N still no luck. If i may ask, Why did u choose euro charged HE?
Even now having a ABS n ESP problem n my right side of the Low beam has been dipped. N still no luck. If i may ask, Why did u choose euro charged HE?
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From: Tampa, Florida
06 SL65 / 97 993tt /11 Suburban/ 2012 GTR (AMG è la mia Famiglia la Bestia è la mia protezione)
Thanks for the input PDC. Yeah EVO seems like a decent product, but I have learn from this forum that they r over due to ship out their product. Is that true? Pulse I have an oil cooler sticking front of my Radiator. Where am I gonna install secondary HE? front of the oil cooler or in between of oil cooler n radiator? Sorry for been noob, I have to learn step by step. In the country I live we don't have Official MB dealer when things go wrong.
Even now having a ABS n ESP problem n my right side of the Low beam has been dipped. N still no luck. If i may ask, Why did u choose euro charged HE?
Even now having a ABS n ESP problem n my right side of the Low beam has been dipped. N still no luck. If i may ask, Why did u choose euro charged HE?
Jon
PS I've ordered stuff from them with really no problem...but I have heard differently on other products. So I guess it is a toss up...
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2006 SL65 ///AMG - GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN: 2005 E55; 2002 ML55; 2001 CLK55; 1992 BMW 850i; 1991 M5
Power is BAAAACK!!!
Bosch 010 pump. Car's output is night and day. Don't know if I just got a crappy CM30 or if they just don't hold up well to the heat and pressure in the 65TT intercooler system. But IATs were pretty high when the car arrived and after a little measured test abuse following the pump swap, temps settled back down right away - even during idle. Anyway, the difference was wild and the car is back to it's old self. Lets hope that Bosch really did work the gremlins out of the 003 pumps when they released the 010.
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From: Colorado
07' SL65, 04' E55, 03' Evo8, 08' GSXR, DSM's...
Have you checked how the stream coming from the schrader valves is now compared to when the other pump was in on start-up (should obviously be better, maybe)?
Glad to hear your power is back
Aaron
Glad to hear your power is back
Aaron
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2006 SL65 ///AMG - GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN: 2005 E55; 2002 ML55; 2001 CLK55; 1992 BMW 850i; 1991 M5
Good point - I got the car late yesterday and had to leave EARLY this morning for work, so I really didn't get a chance to check the schrader valves while the car was cool. With the CM30, coolant would sort of 'pour' out of each valve, but no solid stream. That was on cold start after revving the motor to 2200 rpms just to be sure that the ECU would have turned the intercooler pump on. I will check later this week and post my observations.
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2006 SL65 ///AMG - GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN: 2005 E55; 2002 ML55; 2001 CLK55; 1992 BMW 850i; 1991 M5
I will tell you, though, the Bosch pump sure looks and feels alot 'heftier' than the Johnson. Bosch is larger in diameter and has all metal (aluminum?) housing - CM30 is much thinner and virtually all plastic. CM30 inlet and outlet was slightly smaller in diameter as well - they literally swim in the plastic caps that were snapped snugly over the openings on the Bosch unit for shipping.
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From: Burma
Which move point A to point B.
I will tell you, though, the Bosch pump sure looks and feels alot 'heftier' than the Johnson. Bosch is larger in diameter and has all metal (aluminum?) housing - CM30 is much thinner and virtually all plastic. CM30 inlet and outlet was slightly smaller in diameter as well - they literally swim in the plastic caps that were snapped snugly over the openings on the Bosch unit for shipping.
Thread Starter
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2006 SL65 ///AMG - GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN: 2005 E55; 2002 ML55; 2001 CLK55; 1992 BMW 850i; 1991 M5
Bosch 010 v. Johnson CM30
I certainly can feel the difference in my car since swapping the Bosch '010' version pump in place of the CM30 which I installed last year. I will also stipulate that the EVOSPORT cooling kit in my E55 came with a Johnson CM30 and it has been running strong for 5 years now - not a problem. Maybe I got a bad Johnson in the SL? Also, I do not know if the intercooler circuit in the SL65 is separated from the main cooling circuit or not. I know the stock system on the E55 pumped hot coolant from the engine's radiator right through the intercooler circuit - separating those 2 was one of the main advanteages of the EVO kit. If the stock SL65 intercooler circuit is NOT separate from the main radiator/engine coolant circuit, then maybe the constant high heat exposure gradually sapped the life out of the CM30?
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2006 SL65 ///AMG - GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN: 2005 E55; 2002 ML55; 2001 CLK55; 1992 BMW 850i; 1991 M5
Checked Schrader valves at cool idle. DEFINITELY shooting a stronger stream with the Bosch '010' pump installed than last week with the CM30. Car is just an absolute BRUTE. What fun.
