PDC

2006 SL65 - Kleemann ECU/TCU. Car has developed an intermittent power loss issue wherein it just feels kinda lazy, for lack of a better term. Will not break the tires loose at any speed in any gear, just accelerates smoothly, but gently. No real oomph. Other times it is just a beast. Night and day difference. Car has new Bosch '010' intercooler pump - working fine. Not a heatsoak issue. No codes or CELs


BUT - when I had the ECU/TCU flashed, I also had the tech put in all new spark plugs. In doing so one of the coil packs was damaged and I had it replaced. The part number had changed since 2006, but the coil pack 'looked' exactly like the original one and installed just fine.


I have since ran into a post on a thread that suggests running one 'old' coil pack with one 'new[er]' coil pack somehow 'confuses' the ECU and the result is intermittent power loss. I wanted to run this past all the 65 owners just to see if you had heard anything like this or if it is pure internet hogwash. If there is some truth to it, it sounds like a pretty straightforward way to find my lost ponies. If it is pure nonsense, I would hate to drop a grand or so on a new coil for nothing only to find that the problem was still there.

Thoughts anyone???

THANK YOU

PDC

The driver's side is the one they replaced: 275-150-07-80.
Passenger side says 275-150-04-80.

I think the 'new' coil pack that would match the driver's side would be 275-150-06-80.

PDC

Possibly Boost Sensor or 'Charge Air Pressure sensor'?

alx

I would check my iat.

Is your ic pump good?

A bad coil will misfire but generally not affect power in the manner you describe.

AccelToronto

What you are describing is intake air getting too hot. With any V12 tune upgraded IC pump and oversized HE is a must, if you want to use all that extra power.

I would really check your IC pump and, at least, plug it in constant running mode (no big deal, just one extra wire to a fuse box).

Igor.

PDC

Any sources for a larger Heat exchanger (other than Renntech$$$$) that does NOT require fabrication and modification to install? I do believe my recently replaced '010' Bosch IC pump is functioning properly.

AccelToronto

SpeedRiven, but they do not accept new orders at this stage...

PDC

Are these cars THAT prone to heatsoak in factory trim? Yesterday was only around 80* here - not excessively hot. I understand on a 100+ day or at the track or making back-to-back dyno pulls, but I had thought that with a solid, functional IC pump and relatively tame, in-town driving that the car would always be good for one monster full throttle pull.

Any ideas when Speedriven might be taking new orders?

Also, I think I read somewhere that the heat exchanger for the supercharged Shelby Mustang was as close to a direct fit as you could find for the SL65 but actually has greater fluid capacity and surface area for cooling. Any truth to that? I think those only run around $600-$700 over the counter at any Ford dealership.

AccelToronto

First, make sure your IC pump actually works !

Kleemann ECU - is not exactly factory setting and it will generate extra heat.

alx

the stock setup especially when augmented with the 10 oem pump should be adequate for any setup unless you are pushing it really hard. with a modified ecu you might loose a few horses, but you should not heatsoak unless sitting in traffic, etc.

if your pump is running you might need to have the system bled. this is done with a garage setup (vacuum pump) or a home-grown contraption. search the forum- we have written about it.

to verify without das the functionality of your ic cooler circuit you can do couple things.

1. when engine is hot push momentarily each shreader valve next to the intercoolers. a solid stream of fluid should shoot out. if it does not you either havea broken pump, too little coolant (check when cold), or system needs to be bled.

2. drive around and push the car a bit. pull over. quickly remove engine cover and check the intercoolers. they should be cool to the touch- not warm- cool. if warm or worse- hot and your ic pump is running you either have low ic coolant or you need to bleed the system.

shardul

iTrader: (1)

check your IATs and boost reading and report back.

WHTEVO

I would do what ALX said. I had a similar "issue" and it was because i did not get all of the air out of the system when i replaced the original pump (010) when i bought the car as somewhat of a preventative maintenance item. My coolers were getting so hot after a single pull that i could not put my hand on them for anything longer than a second. They were roughly 190 degrees when i would check temps at the coolers. I ended up removing my Johnson pump, installing a new 010 pump and re-bled a different way than i originally did with an added step. It stays cool to the touch now after numerous pulls.

Good luck.

Aaron

PDC

This is really good info. I can tell you that after driving home, it is so darn hot under the hood that I can't comfortably touch the metal finned engine cover, let alone the intercoolers themselves. I'll bet thats the problem.

Also, Igor said:

I would really check your IC pump and, at least, plug it in constant running mode (no big deal, just one extra wire to a fuse box).

Can anyone provide a bit more info on this wiring? I asked my SA about it when we put the '010' in the car and he said the tech could not quite figure out how to make the IC pump run constant.

AccelToronto

1) Disconnect original wires from the pump and leave them alone (make sure to seal them).
2) Run new wires from fuse box to the pump
3) Find the fuse with sufficient amp, which has the power when you start the engine, but no power when engine is off
4) Connect newly ran wires to that fuse (you can connect ground wire to the ground anywhere)

PDC

Thank you! That actually sounds pretty straight forward. Basically wire the pump directly to 'keyed' power off the fuse box - just like wiring a GM style H.E.I. distributor on an old american muscle car.

I read somewhere that the factory IC pump relay is triggered any time the motor turns at more than 2000 rpms for more than 3 continuous seconds and then stays in the 'on' position until the car is turned off. Is that correct? If so, it sounds like a pretty easy way to get the pump to turn on and stay on in a stock 65 car?

alx

I think the ic pump runs always on the r230 65 cars.

PDC

Firs of all - Many MANY thanks to all who have posted on this thread. You do not know how much I appreciate everyone else's experience on this forum. Car is going in tomorrow fir a FULL diagnostic. WIll check Boost sensor, air box MAF sensors, IC pump, IC circuit for air pocket(s).

Also, I got a very helpful e-mail form Cory at KLEEMANN (GREAT customer service - LONG after the sale) which you all may find helpful down the road. SOunds like coils really should be replaced in pairs, even if only one is acting up. May not apply if you already have the newest 'version' of the coil. But for a car like my 06, it is apparently not a good idea to run one previous generation coil with one newer one. I will definitely remedy this mismatch when the car is in the shop:

Hey Paul-


Programming is checking on the file- I should hear back maybe tomorrow.


I spoke with a good friend of mine who's a master tech at a dealer in Seattle.


He said if superseded (updated) coils are used, they need to be replaced in pairs, so it's possible that's the cause, however, he also gave me a few other suggestions- low-power is a common complaint with the V12 Bi-Turbo's, apparently.


There's a known problem with the boost pressure control valve- I have part numbers. The known problematic valve has a part number of A275.153.00.59. If this is the valve you have on your car, it should be replaced with the latest part, which is A275.153.01.59- unfortunately, this also calls for the engine ECU software to be updated, in which case, you'll need to send me your ECU after the ECU is flashed by the dealer so I can re-load the tuned software.


Apparently there are also issues with the fuel system, specifically the fuel pressure sensor for faulty readings. I'd have your dealer look closely at fuel system function (pump output, sensor signals, etc.), paying particular attention to what the fuel pressure sensor is doing.


Those are the most common causes (aside from the intercooler pump) for low power, according to my buddy.


Hope that helps!


Cory Umemoto
Technical Manager

AccelToronto

I did multiple coil pack replacements (including my own vehicle) and never had a problem replacing just one side...

Igor.

PDC

The dreaded air bubble strikes again!. Every component, sensor, etc was absolutely perfect. But when installing my 010 IC pump, the tech must have gotten a little air in there. That was the first thing they checked and indeed did find an air pocket that blocked the whole IC circuit. I guess that's why the car ran so much stronger on the first drive of the morning.

Anyway, Service Advisor 'no charged' the bleed and re-fill and comped the courtesy car, since they originally installed the 010 pump in the first place. So nice of him to do all that without me having to ask.

Difference is night and day. Intercoolers are cool/warm to the touch after 'spirited' driving. And the car is just plain stoopid. 'Light-switch' power delivery. Tires break loose anywhere on the tach. Positively dangerous automobile.

I always told people I decicded on the 65 AMG because I liked the idea of having the biggest dawg in the yard. Now it feels like it again!

PDC

P.S. - This round goes to Igor, who diagnosed IC pump/circuit from the hip and hit the bullseye. Thank you!

PDC

P.S. P.S. - Aaron, also nailed this one. We each got a complimentary 'bubble' with the purchase of a brand new '010' Intercooler Pump!

Marky

Im happy for you! But this will be expensive. Soon you will need new tires in the rear...

Do you know what procedure they used to bleed the system? I suspect that I have the same problem. I will buy a new pump and bleed the system properly but I have heard there are different ways of doing this. My 2008 CL65 pulls like hell in the morning but after a while it feels "slow".

PDC

The dealership service center has a machine that is supposed to limit the opportunity for air to enter the system during bleeding and re-filling. Obviously not 100% fool-proof, as I clearly got an air bubble when installing the '010' bosch IC pump, but it seems to have done the job this time!