Ekselent

If you are interested about these let me know.

https://mbworld.org/forums/sl-class-...ai-system.html

DUDMD

Did that really make 725hp at the wheels on a dyno dynamics? If so, I believe that is not an accurate dyno dynamics then the correction factory was probably upped by a lot. If that's calculated at the crank, then that's believeable.
I was able to put down 602whp (780hp crank) with maxing out the turbos, tightened waste gates, icebox, intakes and downpipes, and race gas with a lot more timing with a custom dyno tune. There is no way these turbos can support an extra 125whp, not even with billet wheels on a properly working dyno dynamics without manipulation by user.

Ekselent

I don't write 725 whp... it's the engine power + torque.
The dyno was an accurate Dyno Dynamics and we run 3 runs an the power level was between 525-533 kW.
I dynoed the car at another dyno to. The best torque was 1258 Nm ( 927 ftlb) / 2750 rpm.
So I don't think the booth dynos was manipulated at al.
I have a little more in there because the power curse drop a little at the upper rpm range and then rise up again. I must change bigger SL65 injectors because I think its run to lean.

I have stock turbos...

AMG-Driver

SL65 has not only bigger injectors than SL600 but also bigger fuel pump. My former Tuner also changed fuel pump in my former SL600 to 65 Pump. BTW: Your CAI looks good.

Ekselent

Yes I now that. I have calculate its enough for 750-760 hp and I can't have more in than that. Maybe 730-740 hp.
I guess you knows at SL600 the pump is outside and at the SL65 inside the tank. So you have the new pump inside the tank?

Thank you...Yes... its the best setup you can buy for sure. The finish also. .

AMG-Driver

SL600 Pump was 240 liter per hour and 65 pump is 330 liter per hour when i remember correctly.My tuner mounted the 65 pump outside the tank in the SL600.

Ekselent

Thanks to the knowledge, I think I'll change that too. I didn't know you can install it outside.
Thought that they are totally different.
What kind of tune do you have at car because you had to change the pump and injectors to?
Power level?

AMG-Driver

I have a SL65 now.

My old SL600 had a Evotech ECU-Tune, Crank-Power was 610 HP on a MAHA-3000 Dyno. Stock Injectors. Oliver changed my fuel pump to SL65 Pump because I had TOP-Speed of 330 KM/H and I drove it that faston the German unrestricted Autobahn.

He said at this sustained high-speed driving the Sl600 Pump delivers not enough to be safe. SL600 was always limited to 250 KM/H from MB so there was no need for the big 65 pump in stock form.

Ekselent

Okei.... thats sounds right.

DUDMD

You sure the 525-533 was not WHP on the dyno dynamics, or maybe 525-533kW at the crank? I looked into conversion of kW to HP, that puts you over 700whp on a dyno dynamics. That is not possible on stock turbos on a dyno dynamics unless the weather station is off and wrong data manually inputted to fool the weather and bring the compensation up. We are pushing ours to 602whp on ms109 race gas with a lot of timing. Boost is fully maxed out from 25psi and it tapers down to 15-14psi by redline. I have an icebox, custom intakes, and speedriven catless downpipe as well as gutted mufflers.

There is just no way you can get another 100+ whp from it on the same dyno, unless the units are not correct and actually show 525-533whp - which for an sl65 with bolt ons and tune is actually right in the ball park for a dyno dynamics. I was able to make 551whp on pump gas on a cooled down engine with a perfect amount of ice in the tank.

BTW: My sl65 stock put down 464whp on my dyno dynamics that was for 604bhp crank, with 602whp that puts it to 780bhp crank.

Can you post your dyno graph maybe?

AMG-Driver

I saw his dyno-sheet a few days ago in another thread.

There was, as you guessed 525-533 KW at the the Crank which is 714-725 PS/HP at the crank but NOT WHP.

So I think it is within his readings. We in Europe mostly measure in Crank-Power, which is obviously different than in the U.S.


One other Little Point: WHP to Crank conversion is complicated without measuring the real losses with a professional dyno. Can not simply be done with a certain percentage.
Difficult to to say that before the Tuning the losses were 140 HP Crank and after the Tuning the losses are lets say 180 HP Crank.

I would assume that if the number before the Tuning you mentioned is correct for a Stock car, then 602whp is less than 780 BHP. Because the losses should normally not rise that much like the power rises with the tuning. simply spoken.

AMG-Driver

To be fair, it is for me also hard to believe to get a SL600 to 725 Crank HP with stock turbos and pump gas. Maybe an SL65, that should be possible. A tune only SL600 is maxed out at 610 Crank HP and I doubt that with racecatted downpipes a good Intake and IC you will get another real 100 Crank HP. Most Dyno owners want to make the customer happy, if you know what I want to say with this. This is how the business normally works.

BlownV8

My old 600 made over 525 RWHP, Dynojet, on just a tune. It had 390 RWHP stock. Renntech advertises 625 crank and that's conservative. Mine was stock down to the paper filters. I need to dyno my current 600 since it's got everything you mention above including an extra coolant tank in the trunk. It will ignite the sticky 335's at almost hwy speeds and will activate traction control beyond legal speeds. I can certainly believe it has 100 hp over my old one.

AMG-Driver

Every car differs to some point so 625 HP is o.k, but what I have found over the years the claims from Renntech are real world numbers and this is what you get out of a good tune.

So lets see if you can get another real 100 HP with the bolt ons on pump gas, I have my doubts, but best of luck.

DUDMD

That makes sense, that if KW was actually a guesstimated number of crank hp.

On my 602WHP to 788 crank hp, that's really the only fair way guess crank numbers. It's still very close. Even if the 140WHP gains on my car didn't account for any loss, that would still put the crank hp to 740hp, but the drivetrain loss is still there. So really anywhere between 740-780hp is a good estimate.

My dyno reads really low, and almost any stock car we dyno, a 1.31 mulplier gets right on the dot of crank hp perfectly. So while I know what amount of power we gains exactly to the .1 of HP, we always multiply by same factor as factory to whp loss.

AMG-Driver

Exactly.602 whp on your dyno relates to 740-780 HP Crank. I try to explain from my mobile sorry. I looked at my Dynosheet from my SL65, Crank Power was calculated from the Maha 3000 dyno very accurate real losses when the rollers roll out in neutral can be measured. Different dyno than yours whp is not comparable with yours but it makes clear my point: Before Tuning 474 whp and 130,4 HP losses= 604 HP Crank, quite normal for a standard SL65. I leave the correction factors not to make it more complicated. After ECU Tuning Same Dyno 30 min.later : whp 542.6 and measured losses 137.1 HP = 679 HP Crank also quite normal for a good ECU Tune. And now my point: Crank Power went up 12,64 % but the measured losses only went up 4,88%and from much lower value. So on your dyno stock 464 whp you have approx.140 HP losses to a normal Stock SL65 604 HP. Your factor 1.31 seems quite accurate BEFORE the tuning. But after the Tuning as you see with my numbers from my dyno sheet that after the tuning the losses are only a little bit higher than before the tuning. From 130 HP to 137HP! In your case this means - 602whp +140 HP losses on your dyno 740 HP Crank + x and I bet when you would put in on a accurate crank reading dyno it would show quite a few ponys less than 780 HP. Its nothing against whp measuring, both methods are good for tuning and I believe that your dyno is also accurate. For the stock car your factor 1.31 seems accurate with the SL65 but for the same car after tuning it must be different. Hope this was understandable, i got all this background from Luke from Renntech Germany he has studied this stuff as an ingeneere and he develops a lot of stuff for RT and knows both whp and crank reading in depth on their Superflow AWD Dyno.

Ekselent

Here is my dyno cart. Hope its help.

Ekselent

https://mbworld.org/forums/sl-class-...ml#post7025462

Ekselent

I have also something else that no one else has ever had.
I have modified the whole intake.... not only the CAI. That is also why my best torque is as low as 2750 rpm. 1258 Nm / 927 lbft.
I have dynoed the car in two different dynos. Nearly the same power range in both.

Ekselent

Fuel Probleems.

Ekselent

AMG Driver.

(Cant find any fuel flow charts for SL600 fuel pump).

Can you ask your tech one question regarding the SL600 fuel pump. I know you have an SL65 today. I have try contact Pierburg but no answers.

The OEM SL600. I have measure the pressure and it's show at idle and at 1,5 bar boost the same pressure. 3,8 bar.
Normally, the pressure should increase by the same amount from 3,8 bar to 5,3 bar. I don't want waste money to buy a new pump if the pump its not broken. The SL65 Fuel pump charts show its gone do that. From 13,5 Volt 300L/h to 20 Volt 360 L/h.
I'm 100% sure I need more fuel. Its run to lean after 4600 rpm and starts knocking and change the timing from -7 to -10 at 4800 rpm to -34 al the way to 5250 rpm 725 hp.

Thank you.
-Juha

AMG-Driver

Juha, you need a tuner who understand whats going on in your engine.The timing seems odd and I don't know if you can drive at your power level healthy with the "little"600 turbos in the higher rev band. I would be careful not to blow up the engine e.g.on the German Autobahn with no speed restriction.

Ekselent

Yes, I now that. I have the Speedriven software and have send Marcin all this data I have but he have not answered yet. Therefore I asked you also about the pump so I can go further with this. Hope Marcin answer me. I have calculate that I need at least 15 L /h (20-50 hp) more fuel in the higher rev band. But of corse I must measure it. My problem is the dyno is so far away so I must do everything here at home before next dyno trip.
The intake modifications made a lot and therefore I have this problems.
So next step is SL65 injectors for sure but I'm not sure if it enough. Maybe I need the SL65 fuel pump also.

Hope Speedriven / Marcin can help me out.

braddman

You can try RaceIQ as well. They do tuning.

Ekselent

Thank you for that info.