TheCreditMan

I could be waaaaay off, but I think this car will not bring over MSRP. God bless 'em if it does.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-...1%7C240%3A1308

WSH

Agree

I passed on my spot @MSRP

Its ground clearance makes it difficult to use as a daily commuter car in SF (esp parking garages/ramps, etc)

599s and Scuds have no ground clearance issues in SF

And sounds (from reviews) like AMG bungled basic perf stuff like brake pedal feel.....whereas 599 and Scud bungle basic stuff like safety engineering

All new cars (incl F) today have ~50% one-yr depreciation (from MSRP) if driven 15K mis, so new 65s are no longer particularly costly, esp if one can enjoy a car as a daily source of both transportation and entertainment

TheCreditMan

QUOTE=WSH;3218765]I passed on my spot @MSRP[/QUOTE]

I probably would have committed to a car at MSRP, but the dealer was playing games.

QUOTE=WSH;3218765]All new cars (incl F) today have ~50% one-yr depreciation (from MSRP) if driven 15K mis, so new 65s are no longer particularly costly, esp if one can enjoy a car as a daily source of both transportation and entertainment[/QUOTE]

They are all particularly costly. So we just need to be happy and drive!

Will a Scud depreciate on a linear scale like a CL/SL/S65? No. Will a 599? Maybe.

WSH

My usual dealer had 4 Blks at MSRP for repeat customers...and was trying to get another copy (@MSRP) for another repeat cust

I know at least two of these custs killed the idea of Blk after learning about the ground clearance issue....each is also a repeat F cust who has no tolerance for any car that can't be daily-driven to office easily

Tend to view depreciation conservatively....no one needs any of these cars....need to figure out if one is comfortable w/a worst-case scenario

Suspect we're on same page...if one really enjoys driving these cars, value gained in driving pleasure might be outstanding, no matter the depreciation....really ugly if one's ambivalent about the car's driving pleasure and needs to eat the depreciation...was all cute when new F's were "free" for first 6-12mos; new value calc now that Ponzi scheme over

In today's world, w/a huge sea of used, unsold, consigned 599/Scuds, etc w/<3K mis, not really sure what a 15K mis, 1yo Scud will garner in trade-in value....would be intrigued to find out....but I'd assume closer to 60% MSRP; let's not forget that the used buyer is a different socio-economic animal than the new buyer of discretionary cars, esp in a deep recession and credit crisis....

TheCreditMan

Well said, and I agree!

2MANYCARS

The seller must be nuts, $445K for an SL Black, and there's actually a bid for it, the bidder must be out of his mind also. With the unpreditable economy, smart thing to do is to keep loads of liquid assets close, and not spending it on some chunk of metal, well, carbon fiber in this case.

Blk04cobra1

I heard that the first one to hit the US will be sold at $40k over MSRP...heard this though heresay, so not sure if it's true...as hard as it is to believe, I would not be surprised if they bring over sticker b/c of the extremely low build slots available for the US, now you just have to find the right buyer (IMO the $445k is ridiculous and do not think they will go for that much).

jrcart

I've got one coming mid January at MSRP but I am having serious thoughts about passing on it after seeing what happend with CLK Black Series prices within the first 6 months of it's release, you should see the CLK BS prices now. Anyone who pays a penny over MSRP is nuts. I bet if I were to wait until April or May I could save $30k, that would pay for more than half of my planned mods for the car. Furthermore I live in Chicago, winter is in full swing so I would not be driving the car until April at the earliest anyhow......very confused about what to do

JT55

Hey Jim whats up buddy - I'll tell you what to do - don't do it! Period end of story.
Unless you are absurdly wealthy and i dont even know what that means anymore I cant imagine dropping that kind of money on this car. I understand that its the best this that and the other but its simply not an exotic car plain and simple.

You and i got into it once about the depreciation of our cars awhile back - (before we became buddies of course ) and you jumped all over me for complaining ab the depreciation or resale. I think the depreciation has far exceeded even your wildest predictions - its completely absurd. When i think ab it it makes abs. no sense (at least to me so all you guys with your blue books and rhetoric ab other cars losing value etc. save it - i d care) I reasoned when i bought it that at 350 examples it would have to and i mean HAVE TO - hold its value better than most AMG's. Well once again i was WRONG! To me it seems impossible for a car thats been flooded with accolades and produced in low numbers could be suffering this fate. To me the BS is like the Rodney Dangerfield of the Performance car market - NO RESPECT! (and once again guys i know ab the economic disaster i REALLY do)
I for one never pay outright for any car i dont believe in laying out the cash like that when i know i can use it for other things that might actually make me money instead of lose me money.
I actually very rarely buy i usely prefer to lease given my short attention span and need for something new long before 3 yrs is even up.
However i bought the Black series and financed - Now i owe more than the car is worth (upside down) plus 50k in mods - and oh boy I dont even like to think about it.
I understand ab enjoying the car and doing it for the love cause ive lived that mantra my whole car life ab 20+ yrs worth. I could have a Enzo with all the money on leases and mods ive tossed away.
But there will come a time when i want to get rid of it (tomorrow maybe) and ill be sicker than i am now about it. (pretty sick)
Plus everytime i pass the Manhattan Audi of North America on Park AVe. I see the R8 and i say i coulda had that..... less performance or whatever but that car looks like a $200,000 car - mine to me looks like a CLK that I sent to a Custom shop and they created a CLK that looks like well a CLK with a body kit. How many times have i been asked that question- alot.

So ill stop rambling and tell you - save your dough dude.
(its a particularly bad day so dont mind me )

jrcart

John, I hear you, some of that is factoring in to my hesitance on moving forward with the purchase. As I stated in conversation before, I am not concerned with resale or trade in values on my cars, I don't sell them or trade them, I keep them as part of my personal collection. That being said, if I can save $30-40k by waiting out the initial rush on these cars I would like to do so. Being the first to have something is cool, I had one of the first seven E60 M5's in the country, I had one of the first 10 Black Series shipped to North America. It's cool to be driving something that nobody else has, but lets be serious, even if I wait til April or May to pick up an SL BS I don't think you will see too many of them tooling around the roads. I hear what you are saying about the exotic factor, however to me a Black Seies is more exotic than a Ferrari or Lambo. I told you the story about the 3 yellow Murciellagos parked in front of a bar in my home town, not too rare or exotic if you walk out and don't know which car is yours. I guess that is where I differ from most, I would choose performance over style, I have a freind with an R8 and that car is a joke, I would not pay $75,000 for a car with it's meager performance numbers let alone the $130,000 he paid.

I have about a month to decide on what I should do. To be honest I think the dealership is so affraid of getting stuck with the car they will probably deal right off the bat. Anyone paying over MSRP is nuts, several dealerships have not sold their allocations yet, simple economics means the demand is lower than the supply which should result in immediate discounts. I want the car, I will own one sometime in 2009, the question is will have have one of the first ones at MSRP or roll the dice and try to wait for a deep discount?

bigben320e

JR, you got it. Wait. The dice will roll in your favor.

TheCreditMan

I will wager a goodly sum that the bid is an absolute fraud.

And you're right, the smart thing is to keep your powder dry, observe, and wait until this mess plays out, and that will take some time.

Where is the bottom in all of this chaos? Who the hell knows? It's like trying to catch a falling knife. But it is going to get worse, we can be certain of that fact, if nothing else.

2MANYCARS

Jrcart,
I'm in a slightly better situation than you, cause my order won't show until May of 09. However, we are sort of on the same boat, even though the dealer is offering me the car @ MSRP, but I'm not sure if I'm going to take delivery. As I said before, smart thing is to keep loads of liquid assets close, but at the same time, I know I can afford the car no problem, but 300k is, well, 300k, and in 2009, that 300k could be a life safer in emergencies, and this is why I'm having a mixed feeling about this purchase. Maybe I should take JT55's advice to wait and sit it out.

moparrbust

That car is being sold by M-B of Houston North. I used to work there..........and left back in 2002 when the "new" SL500 Designo's just came out. We bought back the first 3 and resold them immediately as pre-owned cars and got $100k over original MSRP on 2 of them and $60k over on the 3rd. There are plenty of fools with money that are waiting to **** it away to be the first on the block with the latest toy.

IngenereAMG

I think that tradition and history has shown that AMG's and Mercs depreciate at an unforgivable rate. I know that I will never by a new AMG again. I will buy used, because they are brilliant cars, but not new.

The best thing to do on this 65 BS is to wait it out. As bad as I want my allocation, I am probably going to pass.

Germancar1

Ok, its bad enough you have a CLK BS and I've only seen while being transported, but if you get a SL65 BS you gotta let me see it in person...lol!!!


M

jrcart

It's not a matter of me being able to afford it, I could write a check for two of them tomorrow, my company had it's biggest year ever and there is no sign of slowing down, this economy is really not scarring me. I own a trucking company and I operate with almost zero debt, I own over 75% of my equipment (about 60 trucks) outright. Now with fuel prices being so low I am saving over $10,000 a week compared to just 3 months ago. I could buy the SL BS just based on my fuel savings alone. I based my 2009 budget on diesel being $4.25+/gallon, it is less than half that price right now. Bottom line, is that if I can save $30-40K on the SL by waiting until April or early May I might as well do it, $30k is $30K...it would make for a nice weekend in Vegas.

I live in Chicago, my nice cars get parked November 1st and don't see the roads again until mid April at the earliest, depending on weather. So why buy the car in mid January at MSRP and just park it and pay for insurance on it when I could wait, possibly save BIG money and still not loose any driving time. I have money, I blow lots of money on stupid things, but I am not stupid, I still like to save a buck whenever possible.

The only benifit I see to taking delivery of the car in 3-4 weeks would be from a modding stand point. I could have all the mods done, and have the car back in my hands by the time the snow melts. I plan on modding the SL to the same extreme as my CLK BS, with a goal of close to 1000hp

I have some big decisions to make.

jl88

I would wait. Hard to drive the car during winter months anyways.

I would wait until spring/early summer. Dealers will be sitting on new sl65 BS's with heavy discounts.

Economy is terribad and most signs point to things getting worse.

alx

very little movement on sl65 blk allocations.

lots of folks passing on the cars.

quite a few orphaned boat anchors spots across the country. standby for great deals come may of 09.

the weak spot of this car is that the slr's are far more exotic and the market is getting flooded with used ones for the same money as the blk.

blk's timing vs. content/panache vs. slr could not be worse methinks.

alex
few cars

2MANYCARS

Jrcart,
I see, well, if I'm in your shoe, I would probably take delivery in January and modify it before all the snow melts, then you would make magazines' covers again. Let us know what your decision is, cause you are the only member on this board that seem like going to take delivery of the car for sure. I on the other hand, have to wait a bit.

jpohl402

I think the ideal thing would be to buy the car as close to invoice as possible, even if you are the first owner - that way you could get the mods started. But if they are not willing to deal, I would definitely wait......

jrcart

Some of these dealers think they are holding onto pure gold or platinum with these cars. There are actually a few dealers out there still asking MSRP for brand new, but year old CLK Black Series Obviously they are not going to discount the SL's too significantly in the first month or two or until they get a feel for the true demand. Buying one at close to invoice is many many months away. Anyone that wants one in Jan or Feb should be able to get it for MSRP, I have talked to 4 dealerships besides mine that have an allocation of at least 1 SL BS but only one has a BS sold to a serious buyer. So whoever bid $400+K for this car is nuts or it is some broker trying to inch up the market value of a car he is stuck with or soon to be stuck with. Any serious buyer can get online like I did, find a handful of MB dealerships to call and find an available car at MSRP. I just bought and flipped one of the first ZR1's about 2 months ago, I made $22,000 in less than 60 hours, now I hear dealerships are selling them at MSRP becasue people that ordered them are backing out...and that is only a $100,000 car. I would guess there might be a few more people bailing out on these $300k cars. It's going to be interesting to see what happens.

2MANYCARS

Congrats on the flip, a friend of mine bought a GT-R in west coast and he made 15k off it, talk about cars as valuable as Rolex SS Daytona's. I'm interested to see how the economy plays out in the next 9 months, out of the 175 SL BS coming to this country, I bet there are going to be more than half the total avaliable, and dealers will be doing their best to get them off the lots.

MercedesBW1

The car is being sold over msrp..take my word for it. MB decided to produce the CLK BLK in three different cycles, and kept increasing the production numbers. That is why it tanked so hard. Not to mention the fact that the body has been around forever and the new E Coupe will be out this side of 7 months. They actually decreased the number of SL BLKs from 250 to 175 and are doing two build cycles between that number. It will be intersting.

2MANYCARS

Dealers can put whatever markup they want on the car, but the simple fact is, lots of people who ordered the cars are hurting, so we will be seeing lots of cancelled orders sitting there collect dust. Take my word for it, economy is going to get worse, and the time to buy a SL BS is not anytime near, dealers will be selling the car at MSRP or lower.