SLK/R170: Lighting Question
04-08-2004, 08:10 PM
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ummmmm...slr?
That's exactly what I wuz thinking a while back! Why won't they do something like introduce headlights that have the round circles in them.......(like the SL, or new SLK)....i would buy it. ALSO CLEAR CORNERS IN THE FRONT DAMMIT!!!!!! I'm talking see-through!
04-10-2004, 06:26 PM
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'02 SLK32 AMG
Originally posted by black98slk230
Why won't they do something like introduce headlights that have the round circles in them.......(like the SL, or new SLK)....i would buy it.
Why won't they do something like introduce headlights that have the round circles in them.......(like the SL, or new SLK)....i would buy it.
04-10-2004, 07:48 PM
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Originally posted by Brian_R170
Given that such a conversion would be both incredibly expensive and illegal, I'd say the reason nobody is selling them is because they couldn't make any money on it.
Given that such a conversion would be both incredibly expensive and illegal, I'd say the reason nobody is selling them is because they couldn't make any money on it.
04-11-2004, 12:40 AM
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'02 SLK32 AMG
A few weeks ago, this topic came up on another forum, and I wanted to find out if the laws had changed much in the last 5 years, so I fired off an e-mail to an internet acquaintance that is a fellow MB owner and owner of an automotive lighting company. His reply is that aftermarket HIDs are still illegal, and even retrofits of factory parts are a gray area. The bottom line is that it's the state's responsibility to enforce and most states just aren't very strict. Sometimes the only time a vehicle gets an official safety inspection is when it's titled in the state (this is the way it works here in Arizona).
The only people that would know and tell you the truth about it are people that inspect vehicles for the states. They may be state employees or dealer/shop technicians, depending on the state, but they'll know.
The only people that would know and tell you the truth about it are people that inspect vehicles for the states. They may be state employees or dealer/shop technicians, depending on the state, but they'll know.
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04-16-2004, 10:02 PM
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'99 SLK230 SP1
I have done many projector retrofits, Demon Eye installs, etc. for many cars:
My IS300:
G35 Coupe Dual Projectors, Custom Black Housings:
Just to show a few,
The SLK can be converted but in order to maintain facotry leveling adjustments, etc. it would take alot of work, I just upgraded to Xenons without projectors and painted a section of the inner headlight housing for a custom look.
It can be done though if you really want to invest the time.
My IS300:
G35 Coupe Dual Projectors, Custom Black Housings:
Just to show a few,
The SLK can be converted but in order to maintain facotry leveling adjustments, etc. it would take alot of work, I just upgraded to Xenons without projectors and painted a section of the inner headlight housing for a custom look.
It can be done though if you really want to invest the time.
04-21-2004, 08:25 AM
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E320 CDi 2k SLK230 Designo 04 SLK 320 Final Edition 2010 GLK350 06 VW Beetle TDi 2012 Plug In Prius
The main reason HID conversions have been outlawed has to do with the conversion itself. The only correct way to fit HID lamps to a car outside of DOT regulations is to retrofit the OEM light system. By that I mean the total package required to certify the lights in Europe.
The total package in Europe requires headlamp washers and automatic level control. These additional items are required because of the additional brightness of the HID light source. The leveling system insures that the horozontal cutoff of the lights stays below the oncoming vehicles line of sight. The washers are there because the dirt that can accumulate on the headlight lens will cause undesirable dispersion of the light.
Remember that HID lighting modules produce roughly three times the light output of a halogen lamp. What would be annoying to oncoming traffic with halogen lamps becomes blinding if it is three times brighter because the light source is an HID module. The additional brightness also is the reason why conversions to HID lighting modules are unworkable with a reflector/fixture designed for halogen lights.
Additionally the glare problem is compounded if the conversion is attempted using a SAE/DOT approved fixture. This is because of the major differences between E code lighting and DOT lights used in North America.
What are the differences?
Europe has basically two headlight beam patterns for the dipped or low beam if you don't count the UK because they are RHD which means everything I mention about beam patterns lighting road signs for the UK models means the pattern is reversed from the LHD countries. The halogen pattern is much like you have seen in the pictures posted in other forums of lights reflecting off a wall except the light is dispersed evenly across the drivers field of view with a moderate kick up to the right side of the beam to light road signs on the side of the road. The DOT fixture has a beam modified to provide a hot spot directly in front of the drivers field of view which reduces the amount of light available on the sides of the normal field of view. The other major difference is that DOT fixtures are required to deflect a significant beam of light upward to light unlighted overhead road signs which are common in North America. This upward dispersion is the main reason why conversion to a HID light module is very wrong if the original fixture is a DOT fixture and why the DOT outlawed HID conversion of standard lighting fixtures. Because of the light dispersion pattern of the DOT fixture the glare would be quite excessive and blinding even if the HID module fit perfectly simply because it is three times brighter causing the amount of light aimed upwards and into the DOT hotspot to be three times what the designers of the fixture intended. The simple fact is however that the HID module does not have the same focal point as a halogen lamp and this insures that even a carefully installed HID module would still cause problems with its beam pattern being aimed the wrong way. This is why HID conversions do not have any legal certification be it DOT, UK MOT, or European approval for on road use. Most conversions simply state they are intended for off road use only as a disclaimer for any type of certification.
Be aware too that many "Xenon" blue tinted light bulbs like those frequently sold on eBay are not certified as well. Most are far east imports and they lack certification for legal use because the location of the filiment is poorly controlled in manufacture unlike street legal name brand lights and may result in a headlight that cannot be correctly aimed because the filiment is too far off position to allow the light source to be positioned relative to the reflector.
The cutoff pattern for HID lamps in E code or European vehicles is also different from that required of halogen fixtures. The extra brightness of HID's on E code fixtures requires additional adjustments to the beam pattern so that the additional brightness would not cause excessive glare to oncoming traffic. This is done by adjusting the E code HID's to have a beam pattern much like that of a fog light with a sharp flat cutoff. The amount of the beam that is deflected to the right and upward for lighting signs is greatly reduced so the effective amount of light deflected is not much more than the amount coming off an approved halogen fixture.
What about DOT approved OEM HID lights?
In one word, they suck. The beam pattern for legal HID in DOT trim still requires the upward dispersion and hot spot. This is why the DOT approved BMW HID projectors glare so much. They provide additional brightness but the range of view is roughly the same as with a halogen which means they glare more than the halogen fixtures that came before but you really don't get to see out that much further a distance.
On my SLK the factory HID's follow the same beam pattern of the DOT approved halogen lights and seem to use a more restrictive lamp filter to reduce the brightness to where the DOT pattern doesn't produce as much excessive glare as it might considering the additional brightness available. It is interesting to note that the lens on my SLK lamps carry both E code approval as well as DOT certification. I have seen this before but never on a HID fixture. The socket for the E code standing lamps are present in the reflector as are the wiring for those lamps. Only the lamps are missing. This would imply the back part of the fixture including the reflectors are the same between the DOT and European versions.
The fixtures themselves have a sticker on the back warning that the fixture is not apporoved for European use so there must be some additional differences between them. The light output is definitly a DOT pattern so if this is accomplished by having a different lens pattern or by having a modified lamp filter (by this I mean the metal shade around the low beam lighting module)I am not sure. If there are any European readers of this thread I would really appreciate it if you could post a picture of the front lens cover of your headlights be they halogen or HID so we can see if there are any differences in the front lens.
The total package in Europe requires headlamp washers and automatic level control. These additional items are required because of the additional brightness of the HID light source. The leveling system insures that the horozontal cutoff of the lights stays below the oncoming vehicles line of sight. The washers are there because the dirt that can accumulate on the headlight lens will cause undesirable dispersion of the light.
Remember that HID lighting modules produce roughly three times the light output of a halogen lamp. What would be annoying to oncoming traffic with halogen lamps becomes blinding if it is three times brighter because the light source is an HID module. The additional brightness also is the reason why conversions to HID lighting modules are unworkable with a reflector/fixture designed for halogen lights.
Additionally the glare problem is compounded if the conversion is attempted using a SAE/DOT approved fixture. This is because of the major differences between E code lighting and DOT lights used in North America.
What are the differences?
Europe has basically two headlight beam patterns for the dipped or low beam if you don't count the UK because they are RHD which means everything I mention about beam patterns lighting road signs for the UK models means the pattern is reversed from the LHD countries. The halogen pattern is much like you have seen in the pictures posted in other forums of lights reflecting off a wall except the light is dispersed evenly across the drivers field of view with a moderate kick up to the right side of the beam to light road signs on the side of the road. The DOT fixture has a beam modified to provide a hot spot directly in front of the drivers field of view which reduces the amount of light available on the sides of the normal field of view. The other major difference is that DOT fixtures are required to deflect a significant beam of light upward to light unlighted overhead road signs which are common in North America. This upward dispersion is the main reason why conversion to a HID light module is very wrong if the original fixture is a DOT fixture and why the DOT outlawed HID conversion of standard lighting fixtures. Because of the light dispersion pattern of the DOT fixture the glare would be quite excessive and blinding even if the HID module fit perfectly simply because it is three times brighter causing the amount of light aimed upwards and into the DOT hotspot to be three times what the designers of the fixture intended. The simple fact is however that the HID module does not have the same focal point as a halogen lamp and this insures that even a carefully installed HID module would still cause problems with its beam pattern being aimed the wrong way. This is why HID conversions do not have any legal certification be it DOT, UK MOT, or European approval for on road use. Most conversions simply state they are intended for off road use only as a disclaimer for any type of certification.
Be aware too that many "Xenon" blue tinted light bulbs like those frequently sold on eBay are not certified as well. Most are far east imports and they lack certification for legal use because the location of the filiment is poorly controlled in manufacture unlike street legal name brand lights and may result in a headlight that cannot be correctly aimed because the filiment is too far off position to allow the light source to be positioned relative to the reflector.
The cutoff pattern for HID lamps in E code or European vehicles is also different from that required of halogen fixtures. The extra brightness of HID's on E code fixtures requires additional adjustments to the beam pattern so that the additional brightness would not cause excessive glare to oncoming traffic. This is done by adjusting the E code HID's to have a beam pattern much like that of a fog light with a sharp flat cutoff. The amount of the beam that is deflected to the right and upward for lighting signs is greatly reduced so the effective amount of light deflected is not much more than the amount coming off an approved halogen fixture.
What about DOT approved OEM HID lights?
In one word, they suck. The beam pattern for legal HID in DOT trim still requires the upward dispersion and hot spot. This is why the DOT approved BMW HID projectors glare so much. They provide additional brightness but the range of view is roughly the same as with a halogen which means they glare more than the halogen fixtures that came before but you really don't get to see out that much further a distance.
On my SLK the factory HID's follow the same beam pattern of the DOT approved halogen lights and seem to use a more restrictive lamp filter to reduce the brightness to where the DOT pattern doesn't produce as much excessive glare as it might considering the additional brightness available. It is interesting to note that the lens on my SLK lamps carry both E code approval as well as DOT certification. I have seen this before but never on a HID fixture. The socket for the E code standing lamps are present in the reflector as are the wiring for those lamps. Only the lamps are missing. This would imply the back part of the fixture including the reflectors are the same between the DOT and European versions.
The fixtures themselves have a sticker on the back warning that the fixture is not apporoved for European use so there must be some additional differences between them. The light output is definitly a DOT pattern so if this is accomplished by having a different lens pattern or by having a modified lamp filter (by this I mean the metal shade around the low beam lighting module)I am not sure. If there are any European readers of this thread I would really appreciate it if you could post a picture of the front lens cover of your headlights be they halogen or HID so we can see if there are any differences in the front lens.
