redvettx2

So what does everyone think about the quality of they paint on a 50K plus car. I think it is disgusting and MB should be embarresed. While in the show room even the 120K were just as bad. I actully work for a German based company that provides high tech instruments used by all the automotive companies to to Quality Control check for color, gloss, orange peel and haze.
Every auto manufacture and some most suppliers us these instuments. The new trend by DC which is pushed onto MB from the top is to save money. Oneway to do this is to cut down on the amount of clear coat that is applied over the paint. When this happens you get orange peel that is visible to the human eye. If you add more clear coat (which equals cost) the orange peel goes away. The best paint out there right now in Japan based manufactures. Look at the paint on a Lexus or Infinti and then look at yours and it will make you sick. I have seen KIA's and Hydunia's with better paint then on MB's. Until we start complaining to MB its only going to get worse. The black Infiniti
G35 coupe we traded for our 350 had 10 times better paint job. We still bought the car but I was not impressed at all with the quality they are putting out. What does everyone else think?

MASA

I actually owned a 03' Infiniti G35 Coupe as well and found that the paint was horrible on that car. After 2 years of driving there were so many chips on the front fender and bumper that it looked like people threw rocks at my car. On the other hand I currently own a 01' BMW X5 and a 05' SLK 350, and found that both cars have excellent paint quality. The X5 has almost perfect, even paint on the bumper and fenders and does not have the slightest chipping. As for the SLK, it only has 1,000 miles, but is immaculate as well.

redvettx2

MB is using ceramic in there paint and that will help on the rock chips. I just don't like the orange peel that MB has. After your car is washed pull it into your garage under the lights and look at it on a angle you see a pattern that looks like an orange peel. More clear coat eliminates that problem. Since you have a BMW also compare them side by side and you will see what im talking about I know the BMW will be much better. The way is to look at your reflection off the paint finish on a clean car. On the MB your reflection will be hazy and distorted around the edges, your BMW will be like Mirror. Compare at let me know what you see.

PS. I love the car but sure would like DC to let MB do things there way and to quit screwing up a good thing.

vraa

The orange peel can be fixed can't it?

I know I have some serious peel on my X5. I was thinking I could just use a quick speed buffer to fix it.

redvettx2

Forgot one thing, the orange peel was non existant on the Infiniti G35, was a mirror. Since mine was black like this car I had 3M coating applied to all the surfaces that would get chipped. 1/3 of the way up the hood the entire front and the mirrors and headlights. The even would pay for new lights if a stone broke them. I had xeon light that are expensive to replace. I am going to have it done to this car also. On black the car must we detailed first and perfect. On the G35 they had to redo mine because they did something that made the film looked scratched like they used rubbing compound or something on it. Looked like it was waxed in a back and forth pattern. The second time it looked great and makes the front end pretty rock proof. Black is always the toughest to keep clean. The only is you need to keep the edges of the clear bra on the hood clean or dirt can collect on the edges and it will show the line where the bra stops. My wife is a clean freak so the black car is hers to take care of.

MASA

Redvettex, by orange peel, do you mean the small polka dot like dots?

vraa

Kinda like.



Series orange peel and paint distortion.



It sucks

MASA

ricky, thanks for the pics! Now that I see that, I have noticed the so called 'orange peel' affect. Doesn't bother me too much though.

vraa

Doesn't bother some, for others it annoys the hell out of.

For me, I'm in the middle. Can I use a buffer to get the peel out?

Kar don

buffer will not take the peel out. And just applying more clear coat isn't the answer. It is the by hand labor that it takes. To get rid of orange peel you must carefully wetsand your finish. Having a clearcoat that is too thick will chip off very easily. Also if you sand too much of your finish you will remove the UV inhibitors which are typically in the top third of your clearcoat. I think the new MB paints look great (yes they have orange peel) but Japanese paints are just as bad. Infiniti G35 definitely has orange peel, I am not sure what you saw. Only car I saw without orange peel was a black rolls royce, thats because a lot of time is spent on the paint finish of those vehicles.

redvettx2

Over applying of clear coat will lead to chipping. The whole process of painting a car correctly is a very fine line and has many variables that can do wrong. On a production line it can be a tough process. More clear coat does not make the orange peel in the paint it self go away, but it does help hide it from the human eye. The big push at MB right now and with many manufactures is to have what they call a "wet look" to the paint. MB is definetly achieving that with their current process. As Ricky stated previously
orange peel bugs the hell out some people and I must be one of them. My G35
had no noticable orange peel but the wet look was not as good as my new 350. Everything on a paint line involves some type of trade off. Wet sanding between coats of paint works great but not on a production line. Most of the sanding on a production line is after the E-coat is applied. E-coat is the usually a 2 coats which are applied to the raw steel usually by dripping into a bath. If it is not smooth enough the structure of the bumps will get telegraphed into the final finish. This process varies with the types of paint being used and my manufactures and geographic area ie. Asia, Usa, Europe.
We have worked on many different problems for car manufactures and you find many weird things that cause problems. At Ford certain deodorants used my the employees caused problems. At one Manufacture a taller employee was the cause. He didnt spray the lower areas like the others. With the high tech systems being used today lots of stuff can happen. Painting a car is one thing, doing it on a production line is antother. I would give up a little "wet look" to have less orange peel. In Europe they feel differently. Great pics by the way Ricky, they show the problem perfectly.

P.S They way they pay bonuses at the manufactures also determines what you get too. Had a whole group of painters tell us in a seminar that they get paid on the % of cars that get passed on final inspection. If they want quality to improve they have to change the bonus structure so they will not take the hit if most cars are better but a few more fail a tougher final inspection. Hard to argue agnaist that point.

bmwnomore

I have a 2002 BMW 5-series in white parked right next to my iridium slk350 and the BMW has much more orange peel. It's actually very noticeable next to the slk. I'm not sure if it's because of age but there is no comparison as far as orange peel. However, I must say that the BMW finish is very good and it has held up well. Very few stone chips, etc. and after three years it's as shiny as the slk. I can only hope the slk finish wears as well.

docrings

There is a LOT of discussion on the other car threads to which I subscribe. Modern water-based paints and orange peel...how we love to hate them!
The discussion usually goes something like this: "For $50,000 (or $75,000+) you would think they could make the paint smooth with no orange peel. (insert multiple explitives here.) My older car (insert esoteric brand here) had no orange peel at all!!! This is an outrage!!!"

It is becoming a fact of life that low volatile water-based paints have a lot of orange peel. Thank EPA and European equivalent regulatory agencies for this. The water-based paints are also more prone to chipping (hence the improvement in M-B ceramic clear-coat system to ameliorate this.)

My recommendation is NOT to block sand your finish yourself, unless you have a paint thickness meter to avoid cutting more that 50% of your clear-coat, and a decade of experience under your sander/buffer. Remember those awful peeling paintjobs of Detroit in the 70's??? yup, clear-coat defects, and sanding into your nice, new clear-coat will induce these premature peeling & cracking defects into your clearcoat and premature UV aging of the color coat. (Not even to say that sanding away the ceramic protective layer on your M-B removes a fair amount of the fine sandblast/pebble chip protection.)

If you want to spend the money ($3000 to $15,000) you can have a bodyshop:
1) blocksand (1000 grit or smaller)/DA the clear-coat to a mirror-like finish and hope not to prematurely cut it thin (cheapest, but most dangerous)
2) blocksand the finish to color and re-clear (not cheap, and may involve refinishing a panel if the color is cut through.)
3) take the paint down to metal, and completely repaint the exterior in a quality catalyzed paint with reduction in orange peel (did you notice I didn't say eliminate?)
4) Custom car shop: take the paint down to metal, block the bare panels, prime, multiple lacquer coats, with block-sand between each coat, finished with clear. MIRROR FINISH for just $12,000 to $15,000... not bad for perfection. Now, just enjoy driving it to the mall, to work, and anywhere else the rock-chips fly... too nice to drive!

Been there and done the last part on some of my older show car restorations... it *IS* a beautiful thing to be able to see every beard stubble in the reflection!!!!

Julien321

Are some colors more prone than others? Does metallic suffer more? My Mars does not seem to exhibit this problem. My paint looks smooth even up close. I do have 4 coats a Zaino Z-2 on it but it's optically clear so it should not cover up any orange peel.

wil_sutton

I know everyone thinks I'm an idiot for paying the extra money, but I had mine Simonized ($300). I only had it for two days before they did it, and I didn't notice the orange peel effect at that time. I can tell you, however, that it looks better than any paint job I've ever seen today. Further, I've had the car since September (8000 miles+) and it doesn't have a single flaw anywhere. Road tar and bug guts come right off, even if I let them bake for a week or two.

I'll tell you it is one hell of a lot better than the factory paint job on my VW. That had swirls in it the day I picked it up, and I think the clearcoat is about gone now.

If it matters, the SLK is Diamond Silver. Once again, I'll take pictures of it after I get around to washing it. I'll try to take a couple that show it doesn't have the orange peel effect.

docrings

Our Mars Red SLK is also fantastic, but not *perfect*... from 3 feet away it's gorgeous!!!