AMGSC

Why did'nt the Kleemann exhaust add any HP? If the pipes were wider (2" to 2 1/2" with cross-overs pipes) then the flow would be significantly increased and the backpressure reduced thus giving you more HP. If the diameter were any wider like 3" then you can start losing torque at the expense of more HP. However the cross-over pipes (X, Y or H Config with X being the best) should increase some of the torque as well.

I got this info from a former master mechanic at Flecher Jones MB and also rich kid son of the owner of my 120 million dollar aerospace company who has a stable of performance cars (Vipers, Porsches, Benzes, MBs, Vettes, Old Chevy and Ford Muscle Cars, etc.) that have been heavily modded by himself generating more than 900 HP.

c55m8o

personally, I think doing it @ HoP after doing it @ DC Performance can only increase the credibility of all parties ... with the assertion the measurements are @ the wheel figures, within a few ticks of each other, and are normalized to an atmospheric standard day and nothing else. If they're way off or any other funny finagling is done, well then this thread aught’a get real busy...

I myself don't doubt the HPS Gen II kicks ***. And it's a great bargan too. I just can't stand everyone's policy of adjusting rear wheel measurements to account for transmissions losses and state their derived crank figures as "fact" ; when it's nothing more then an approximation. I received a dyno graph from Kleemann of a C43 many years ago; same thing. Measured rear wheel torque and hp is the only fact. We all know the baseline of the 5.4L engine in one of these cars pretty well so can draw accurate conclusions as to the gains...

Vadim-SoCal

Thanks!

Any place with Dynojet can work. There are probably 10 Dynojets in 50 mile radius of OC.

Precisely!

Clk&Slk

Ok Mark, you've enough times to think. Vadim's shop, you pay and I'll bring it. "Just looking for the REAL story....FACTs...No blue Sky!" Like they say "put up or .........." .You decide !!

MARK CUMMINS

Lynn.....

My Offer still stands...Dyno Roberts AMG s/c car ..and Yours at HOP in Huntington Beach...No Games...Last Time...The Offer is for AMG s/c and your hps car...
We can even make it a GTG for all to see!


Vadim does NOT have a Dyno shop...Nor does Vadim Work for Evo Sport..

Yes I will pay for the Dynos as posted SEVERAL times...@ HOP in HB
Let me know when You will be there and I will stop on over..

Call HOP and set it up!.....or

Like they say "put up or .........." .You decide !![/QUOTE]

Clk&Slk

LOl.........i'll think about it, Mark.

Vadim-SoCal

Correct.

I can be there to confirm the results. Please talk to Josh at HoP and set up a time. I will arrange my schedule correspondingly.

Thanks.

AMGSC

Here you state that Dynojet cannot be manipulated yet later on you contradict yourself? Can you please verify if the Dynoject can or cannot be manipulated?

AMGSC

If someone will pay for my dyno I will leave a vapor trail getting to HOP

How about 12:30pm (February 1st-Wed) during my lunch hour? Please PM SUPERC55 and ask him if can bring his ride. I will ask Bill or Adam from HPS to be present as well.

AMGSC

These are my exact same sentiments. There's nothing better than cross validation. I just want someone who is non-biased and truly expert to audit and verify the settings and results. Vadim appears knowledgable but I'm no car expert to judge. I'm just apprehensive about his pro-Kleeman bais. I think Bill K (HPS - VP of Engineering) or Jim (owner of Mechtech) should be there to observe as well. I will ask them.

AMGSC

I just got a PM from Brandon. We need to reschedule. PM SUPERC55 directly if you're curious as to why.

nishi

something i'd be interested in is the RELIABILITY of the HPS Supercharger... still didn't get an answer GRMLRMLRMLRM!

AMGSC

That's what Eaton's are known for. The most reliable Superchargers are roots-type superchargers (less moving parts than Centrifugal or Twin-Screws). Just type in "Roots-type supercharger" in Google or Yahoo and you'll see. In addition the new Generation MP112 Eatons is much more efficient than the old roots-style blowers. As for HPS. The top casing and plenum is billet machined versus mold or die-casted which makes the entire system much more reliable (Cracking due to oxygen pores during casting). It is fully warrantied and now HPS is developing a Pulley Kit/Fuel Injector system to add another 2 lbs of boost. Besides Adam and Bill provide EXCELLENT SERVICE. They call and check up on my car almost on a weekly basis. I have not had a single problem (overheating, check-engine, stalling, etc...) and the power is just unreal.

Vadim-SoCal

One can not alter HP/TQ readings, since drum weight is fixed and weather variablies are logged in automatically. However, one can take a dynorun and edit notes on it to read them as anything you want.

AMGSC

So the dyno has weather sensors besides temp? (i.e. pressure, humidity, elevation, etc..).

1) Can the sensors be adjusted similar to adding a tare weight to a scale?
2) How can you tell if a dyno has been edited? What do they typically edit?
3) I understand if the dyno was converted to Excel but if it is simply a image file then how do they do it?

c55m8o

...there's no electromagnetic or hydraulic load on the dyno drum? I was sure there was.

MARK CUMMINS

Old Today, 08:23 AM #102
E55Cent
Super Member

E55Cent's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ventura, CA
Vehicle I drive: AMG 55
Posts: 599

https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...=130280&page=3

Dyno'd the HPS Gen 1
Had my dyno done yesterday at the House of Power. My car was running way too lean with the FMU that came with my HPS kit. I upgraded to a super FMU and Josh R installed and tuned. My car now runs safe and I got about 25wheel HP and TQ a cross the board. I'm sure I can squeeze a tiny bit more power out to the car. I'm running 5lbs of boost so I have no idea how some of these systems are running over a 100 more wheel HP than my car on the same amount of boost with a supercharger only.

Vadim-SoCal

Early Dynojet 248s ran DOS software. It required manual humidity and air temperature entry. Judging by the printout, DC uses newer Windows software that uses an automatic weather station built into dyno hardware.

The easiest way to create a false dyno printout is to simply take a dynorun from a different car and edit the notes that are printed with each run.

This is my guess of what has happened here. I could be right and I could be wrong. Mark Cummings has offered to pay for a dyno run for us to see.

So, are we still on?

AMGSC

LOl.........i'll think about it, Mark.[/QUOTE]

I think you should take Mark's Offer. PM me.

MARK CUMMINS

Well The Dyno was done yesterday...
NOT the Gains as HPS has stated...310 HP at the Wheels..
Far from the 150HP as listed on his web site...
Also Its VERY VERY LEAN on the Air Fuel!
Oh and its Not running the LOW boost as stated...
Checked it ...on the dyno

The above dyno that Vdoc posted cannot be from a HPS car..look at it close!
No tricks No games JUST FACTS!
Adam will be over to HOP Next week to figure out what is wrong.. Vadim will be there also...Vdoc stop on over and chat with Adam!

This is NOT to Discredit HPS ..Just show real facts..

Btw I Do NOT work for HOP or have a HOP system..
Just want real numbers..NO Cooked Numbers..


Vdoc (IF) You had a HPS system I would offer you a Free Dyno..But since you do NOT maybe another time!

Oh and Linh will be stopping over for his dyno..



Take care!

Fast55

Mark,
I'm not here to defend HPS either, but Mario's GEN I isn't stock. He has a smaller pulley to up the boost. That might explain it being lean, along with his aftermarket exhaust. The Gen I on my E430 did not run lean at all. Also, the claimed gains of +150 HP were for the Gen II, not the Gen I. My 430 gained 90 HP at the tires with the Gen I, right in line with their claims.

Josh K

Fast,

Mario's kit is only running at 5psi - the psi advertised for the Gen 1 kit. He had to use a smaller pulley because he wasn't able to get more than 3 psi with the pulley included with the kit.

Also, the car that ran 310 and claimed a 147 increase was not Mario's car, but a C55 with the Gen II HPS system. Mario's car came in running lean at 33-something and left making about 360.

Yellow R1

Wow. I'd be a little chapped with 310 rwhp? I was dissappointed with my own 1st 489 rwhp pull on 91 crap gas and an unlearned ECU. My Kleemann mods cost some cash, but it appears to be a strong supercharging system in light of some of these posted output levels from other manufacturers.

Kleemann SLKs rock!

-Matt

Fast55

My 55 made 426 RWHP with the Gen II at 7 pounds, or a 124 RWHP increase. 310 RWHP sounds like what the car should have made stock. The Gen I really should NOT be applied to a 55. The MP90 is too small and has to be spun up to it's max RPM's to get that boost. I sold the Gen I from the E430 for that reason.

SLK55R

Don't even bother getting on these discussions ... definitely interesting to read ... but it got silly long time ago. Those of us that are looking at going the supercharger route certainly will do our own due diligence. The Carlsson kit is just REDICULOUSLY expensive. Even with heavy discounting it just doesn't make any sense. The Renntech kit certainly looked good but they don't have an installer up here in N cali.

Btw I talked to REnntech the other day .. .and he said that the internals for your SLK55 is VERY different than the internals in the factory supercharged 55 motors. (shrug) I know compression is very different but didn't know that valves springs, rods (pistons of course) etc were different.