MB_Forever

As popular as Royal Purple is in the racing world, I've also heard that it has a few disadvantages if used in stock production cars. This is an article from yet another oil comparison test:

"As you may know, RP is big in racing circles. The chemistry they use is something we choose not to use. One of our big selling points is extended drain intervals. Some additive chemicals can cause adverse conditions when used for long periods.

Royal Purple uses a different chemistry than most. They are one of only a handful of marketers using Moly in their oil. Moly is a solid, specifically banned by Cummins, due to excessive valve train wear.

Moly (Molybdenum Disulfide) is a processed mineral that is similar in appearance to graphite. Moly has good lubricating properties when used either by itself (in dry power form or as an additive to oil or other lubricants). Particles of the Moly can come out of suspension and agglomerate. This can actually clog oil filters or oil lines and the rest normally settles in the bottom of the oil pan. This seems to be more likely when using extended drain intervals. The only test we ran on RP involved their 20W50 Racing oil versus our AMSOIL Series 2000 Synthetic 20W50 Racing Oil (TRO). We ran two 4 ball wear tests with different parameters, a spectrographic baseline, FTIR scan and volatility tests. The Royal Purple showed a significantly high volatility rate with a 12.51% boil off rate. This compares to TRO with a 4.47% volatility rating. Wear scars were also smaller with the TRO. For example the TRO left a .41mm scar and the RP oil left a .66mm scar. There was also a surprising difference in the viscosity index. The RP has a VI of 129 versus 155 for the TRO. The higher the VI, the better the viscosity stays in place at high temperatures."

And here are the head-to-head dyno results:

AMSOIL has been dyno tested against Royal Purple, in a issue of Fast Fours & Rotaries magazine. Click here to see the results.

Eurosport

like i said a long time ago,
oil threads no matter on what forums, they will always be like politics threads
everyone's passionate about whatever product they like

imo the most important thing is not the brand of oil but to change oil/filter on time (sooner than manufacturer recommends of course ;p)

ps: that pic i took is not really 100% showing the engine color properly, my camera on auto always sucks in an indoor environment

Peter_02AMG

Back to Mobil 1..Molybdenum Disulfide is not good.

I put Mobil 1 synthetic in all my cars and I change the oil & filter every 3K miles regardless of what they say. To me dirty oil is dirty oil. Mobil 1 always been good to my all my cars, i never had any ineternal problem. Cheaper and easier to find Mobil 1 than RP. I had to call 3 different place to get 9 Qt of RP

btw, did you know Wal-mart sell the 5qt container of Mobil 1 syn for about $21 and if they're on sale it about $18. i stock up a yr worth of Mobil 1 when they are on sale

Tacjam

From all the negitive **** I hear about RP, I've read hundreds of positive things about it. As far as the Amsoil comparison, just the way they sell Amsoil turns me off. As I understand it's pretty good oil....the entire company just reminds me of a pyramid scheme. Everytime I hear someone talking Amsoil up, it seems they're selling the ****. I know Mobil 1 quality isn't what it was just two years ago. If you plan on keeping oil in your car for 10K, RP may do some harm, but if you change oil at a 5K interval like I do, I can't imagine any harm. I haven't read one bad thing about RP on the Bimmer forum, those folks swear by it. Actually, just about every person that used it in an automotive engine has nothing but great things to say.

jimmydagreek

I agree and feel the same way you do with everything you just wrote Tacjam...

Eurosport

as of last week, Royal Purple is in my bike too

MB_Forever

You are absolutely true about Amsoil; it seems like they try to market their products aggressively. However, that does not nullify their tests. They've actually conducted over 20 tests spanning multiple areas and different oils.

But even aside from Amsoil's tests, I remember reading about a guy that was having problems with Royal Purple in an S430 engine. I know it is not a high-performance AMG engine, and I'm not even sure if he had performance upgrades, but he posted that Mercedes gave him problems about the oil, but eventually fixed the car under warranty.

All I'm saying is that Royal Purple probably has its positives and negatives.

What I don't understand is why doesn't a high quality oil company like Royal Purple doesn't just try to get certified by Mercedes, BMW, etc.... so that it can be listed under "Approved Oil" lists I'm sure they'd get a lot of sales especially from true car enthusiasts.

Tacjam

Ah yes,

We've all read horror stories about oil. Google Amsoil warranty claims, several people have reported their vehicle has failed due to Amsoil and Amsoil wouldn't back them up. Now I know it could have been a 100 other things that caused those failures I'm no BIG fan of any oil, I just want what possibly is the best in my car, I want my 210 to last as long as possible, if I felt that RP/Mobil 1 was doing harm...I wouldn't dare put that in my ride. As far as certified, MB wants BIG bucks to add their additive packet. Perhaps an agreement between Mobil 1 and MB? Mobil 1 quality has gone down the drain....But having that Mobil sticker placed on each car sure makes some owners run right out to WalMart and stock up....even though we know the quality has gone to ****. Makes me wonder why MB hasn't picked up another oil company that truly has the best synthetic oil. Perhaps it's money and that little sticker? Maybe Mobil is paying so much for that little sticker that MB is overlooking what truly is the best quality? They've done it in the past with cost cutting....I just don't know. I'm not claiming any HP increase, any MPG increase, but I know my engine seems to be running smoother right now.

Jakpro1

No idea of effects on a Benz, but I watched a rather embarrassing Royal Purple challenge done in front on me on a dyno on a Katech 423rwhp N/A Caddy. The result.....lost a few hp. Gained 0.

Dyno guy did claim that he has seen gains with it though.

Think the Caddy was already running synthetic so most likely the reason for no gain.

Dr. C36

Amsoil is a massive propaganda machine, the ONLY place you find great stuff about their products is on their own damn website haha. Talk about snake oil salesman. I've tried their stuff once, never went back.

what makes RP different is its patented synerlec formula. I've run it in all my cars for years and never had any issues. where as I had alot of issues with mobil1 in my old M3. the other E36 M3 engines are not a fan of mobil1, it would burn off and create the worst valvetrain tick, most have shifted away from mobil1 for that reason in the bmw community.

RP has been independently dyno tested by countless people and every single time... legitimate proven dyno gains. If you swap over your entire drivetrain, you will see results. the biggest results for me were not power (although I fel them), it was MPG. The instrument cluster didn't lie my mileage skyrocketed with full RP in drivetrain, it really did cut down on the friction a legitimate amount. The savings alone in gas will pay for the difference in price 10 fold.

Get RP, you won't regret it.

MB_Forever

I wasn't endorsing Amsoil at all, I was just pointing out some of the issues encountered with Mobil 1. Also, Mobil 1 is not the only certified oil by Mercedes. I think Mercedes lists about 10 different brands in sheet 229.5 of approved oils. Mobile 1 is just the "recommended" oil out of the approved oils list. Also, most of the oils on the list are also certified for BMW and Audi. What I don't understand is why don't high quality oil companies, such as, Royal Purple, Redline, etc.... attempt to get certified like the other oil brands?

Tacjam

I dunno, maybe because the smaller high quality synthetic oil companies know that each Mercedes Benz, BMW, porsche that rolls off the assembly line will have that Mobil 1 sticker under the hood. Most owners won't go the length we will to take care of our machines. I don't think I would pay the millions for the Mercedes Benz oil additive packet if I knew they were going to put that Mobil 1 sticker under every hood that leaves Stuttgart. Also (don't quote me on this) but I think the 229.XX is for the FSS system, which I don't use anyway, I change oil every 5k. This is what I could dig up........

"MB229.1 is intended to cover minimum specifications for passenger cars with petrol or diesel engines prior to the introduction of 2002 model year vehicles from Mercedes.

Although it calls for high detergency, MB229.1 is not a particularly onerous specification for modern lubricants and can in fact be achieved even with a plain mineral oil of say, 15W40 viscosity grade if the right additive pack is selected. It equates to ACEA grades A2/B2 and to some of the requirements of ACEA grades A3/B3 but despite its A3/B3 rating it is NOT intended for use over extended drain intervals. This means the oil must be changed every 6,000 miles if it only complies with MB229.1.

The latest generation of engines from Mercedes are higher performance BUT need to give improved economy and longer drain intervals dictated by the need to reduce service time and cost.

Hence MB229.3 was introduced to ensure that the engine lubricants can cope with these new demands.

The need for drain intervals of 12,000 miles or more in higher performance engines can give rise to problems with plain mineral oils since the lighter base stocks can evaporate off over this time, thickening the oil, concentrating contaminants and increasing oil consumption (topping up is required to replace the evaporated stocks). Additionally, the demand for better economy means that the oils viscosity MUST be relatively low and plain mineral oils are not very good at preventing wear when they are low in viscosity.

This incompatibility with plain mineral oils and MB229.3 means that MB229.3 oils are generally Fully Synthetic. Equally they will have low viscosities (typically 5W40 or 0W40 but they can be as low as 0W30!) and must meet the full requirements of ACEA grade A3/B3 "

Quadcammer

you guys could also try German Castrol Syntec 0w-30. Its a very thick 30wt oil that has produced thousands of stellar Used oil analyses at bitog.com.

Available at autozone and very highly regarded by owners of all makes and models.

MB_Forever

I think that is also one of the "Approved Oils" on their list. Here is the complete list of "Approved Oils" for all MB Sheets so far:

http://www.whnet.com/4x4/oil.html

Dr. C36

never ever run a 0w-xx oil in your car, its just WAY too thin for our european engines. Infact european engines usually run on the thicker side of the spectrum. RPs 5w-40 european formula & their 20w-50 are what I'd run. You can run 10w-30 in the winder months if you like but its totally up to you.

Eurosport

when you guys bored,
here's a must read
http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html

http://www.carbibles.com/suspension_bible.html

armaniE55

Eurosport - Good Stuff.. thanks!

jimmydagreek

Nice! You learn something new everyday! Thanks brotha...

SleepersRock

Thanks Euro. This was definately some fascinating reading!

SleepersRock

So I did a few things over the weekend:

Flushed brake lines and replaced fluid. Much better brake feel now.
Coolant flushed and thermostat changed. Probably could have waited on the thermostat as looked pretty good.

AND the oil change with Royal Purple.

I immediately noticed how much smoother the engine was. There is almost no engine vibration feeling through the steering wheel vs. Mobil 1 where it was noticeable. Power feels slightly better especially pickup down low.

Will keep you all updated if my MPG gets any better!

JamE55

Just curious, how easy is it to change the oil on these cars? How long did it take you?

migs

it shouldn't take more than 30-45 minutes to do it. longer depending on how well you want to drain the oil.

Yacht Master

Bottom line, Who stands behind there product?

Mobil 1 Motor Oil Limited Warranty

This is a limited warranty covering the Mobil 1 motor lubricant you purchased. ExxonMobil warrants its lubricants to be free from defects and will replace any Mobil lubricant that is defective. For all vehicles follow the recommended oil change interval in your owner's manual. ExxonMobil warrants that the Mobil 1 lubricant you purchased will protect your vehicle’s critical engine parts from oil related failure. If not, provided the engine was serviceable at the time the oil was installed, Exxon Mobil will have your vehicle repaired and replace the oil at no cost to you.

ExxonMobil Lubricants & Petroleum Specialties Company, a division of Exxon Mobil Corporation ("ExxonMobil") provides this limited warranty to the purchasers who use Mobil brand lubricants in their vehicle.

This limited warranty covers the Mobil 1 lubricant and critical engine parts lubricated by the lubricant.

If there is equipment failure related to the Mobil brand lubricant you purchased, ExxonMobil will repair any equipment damage directly caused by a defect or malfunction of a Mobil lubricant, provided that the lubricant was selected and maintained in accordance with specifications of the original equipment manufacturer or the written instructions (which includes product packaging) of ExxonMobil.

To file a claim under this Limited Warranty, you must:

Upon discovery of the damage (but not later than six (6) months from the date the damage occurred) call 1-800-AskMobil.

Allow an ExxonMobil representative to examine the equipment and maintenance records, if available, and provide proof of purchase to determine the extent of the damage and to confirm that a Mobil lubricant was the cause.

Allow an ExxonMobil representative to obtain an oil sample from the engine for oil analysis at no cost to you to assist in determining the cause of the equipment failure.

This Limited Warranty excludes:

Mobil lubricants used in mechanically deficient equipment as a result of abnormal operation; negligence; abuse; damage from casualty, shipment or accident; or, equipment modification done without written authorization from the OEM.

Situations where the OEM required lubricant standards do not match those stated by Mobil without written approval from ExxonMobil.

Mobil lubricants that have been used in conjunction with any other product or additive that has not been authorized for use by ExxonMobil.

Failure of equipment due to a pre-existing condition that is unrelated to the use of Mobil lubricants.

Repair or replacement of equipment due to normal wears.

The remedy provided here will be your only recovery against ExxonMobil. You will not be able to recover incidental or consequential damages. Some states do not allow the exclusion of or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitation or exclusion may not apply to you.
This warranty gives you specific legal rights, and you may also have other rights, which vary from state to state.

SleepersRock

+1. Usually I use the pump, but because we were switching oil brands from Mobil 1 to Royal Purple I put it on a rack and drained it from the bottom. Didn't take more than 45 mins including getting it on and off the lift.