Twin Turbo E55 upgrade?
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From: El Paso, TX
'03 G500, '13 G63, '17 GLS63,
Twin Turbo E55 upgrade?
Just thinking out loud, but coming from different types of vehicles I wonder if techniques from one type of car can be applied to another. Recently, I was looking into upgrading my 1986 Corolla GT-S 4AGE engine to a supercharged version called the 4AGZE. Anyway, a popular upgrade is to replace the supercharger with a turbo system. The ECU is able to handle boost quite effectively, as long as its not too crazy. I have also seen turbo upgrades fr the 2003-2004 Mustang Cobras are available. I am wondering if it might be possible to do this type of upgrade to our E55's (someday). Thoughts comments?
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Originally Posted by BlownV8
Anything is possibe given unlimited resources.
Last edited by medici78; Jul 27, 2005 at 12:08 AM.
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I can't imagine the cost to develop such a system not to mention the time and agrivation of being the first one to attempt it. How much more power do you expect to gain? ECU, Pulley, Intercooler, N2O, etc can boost output tremendously but more importantly, reliably and cost effectively.
I remember the days trying to make the impossible possible. A lot of work and a lot more frustration. No thanks, I'll wait for MB to TT the new 63 motor!
I remember the days trying to make the impossible possible. A lot of work and a lot more frustration. No thanks, I'll wait for MB to TT the new 63 motor!
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The hard parts will be the plumbing, manifolds, and turbo placement. Forced induction is a rather easy procedure given talent, time, and financial resources. Sure, it could be done. However, I don't think it would be an easy task.
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I guess coming from a MKIV Supra I was rather spoiled. Wish the same was possible on the E55. I was able to more than double the stock power (from 300rwhp to 667@25psi) for about $12-13k in performance parts and stock longblock. That same amount in an E55 might barely give a 20% gain. 
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Originally Posted by medici78
Yes, I agree. The point I'm trying to make is that it may be easier than thought to do such an upgrade. Just look up the Mustang Cobra upgrades, same basic principle.
The reason there are so many *simple looking* aftermarket upgrades for Mustang, Honda, etc. engines is becasue grenading one is not nearly as costly as an AMG which makes development much cheaper. Plus, there are 100+ times as many potential buyers to help recoup the investment costs.
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Originally Posted by medici78
I guess coming from a MKIV Supra I was rather spoiled. Wish the same was possible on the E55. I was able to more than double the stock power (from 300rwhp to 667@25psi) for about $12-13k in performance parts and stock longblock. That same amount in an E55 might barely give a 20% gain.
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Originally Posted by E55AMG99
Yes, it can be done but will it be any easier to turbo an AMG K motor vs. a NA motor? I suspect that question will remain unanswered for a long time, if ever.
The reason there are so many *simple looking* aftermarket upgrades for Mustang, Honda, etc. engines is becasue grenading one is not nearly as costly as an AMG which makes development much cheaper. Plus, there are 100+ times as many potential buyers to help recoup the investment costs.
The reason there are so many *simple looking* aftermarket upgrades for Mustang, Honda, etc. engines is becasue grenading one is not nearly as costly as an AMG which makes development much cheaper. Plus, there are 100+ times as many potential buyers to help recoup the investment costs.
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If the flipping motors were even close to affordable.....like in the 10K-15K range.....a lot more of us would even try it. But 35K....that is confirmed, wow, too much to spend if I made a mistake on twin turbs and roasted it.
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Originally Posted by Jakpro1
If the flipping motors were even close to affordable.....like in the 10K-15K range.....a lot more of us would even try it. But 35K....that is confirmed, wow, too much to spend if I made a mistake on twin turbs and roasted it.
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It's all in the tuning. I think thats the major key. If there was a way to safely tune it, I think a lot more people would be on the bandwagon. If there was a way to control boost safely, I truly think we could get a crapload more power out of this motor. Maybe not 200-300% like on a Supra, but I have a feeling 600-700rwhp is possible with our stock longblock.
I had an E46 M3 before this, and that is a $20k motor. There's a couple of outfits making superchargers for that car. I agree the motor is ridiculously expensive, but the M3 guys are taking even bigger chances with boost on an 11.5:1 (I think) compression engine.
I had an E46 M3 before this, and that is a $20k motor. There's a couple of outfits making superchargers for that car. I agree the motor is ridiculously expensive, but the M3 guys are taking even bigger chances with boost on an 11.5:1 (I think) compression engine.
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Originally Posted by E55AMG99
Yeah, the Supra engine was unbelievably easy to hop up. That block is increadibly strong.
It's quite a thought though. A TT E55.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard that somewhere in the middle east, some guy had his C32 turboed on top of the supercharger? I could be tripping but I think that is what I heard. He was that one rich guy with almost every exotic in the world.
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what you guys are talking about, is called compound induction. I'm sure it could be done on a E55 if you could find a place to mount the turbo. One of the problems with doing this would be the compression ratio of the stock motor. Dont get me wrong you could do this to a stock motor, but you would have to run race gas all the time to pervent detonation. If some one makes low compression pistons for that motor you could easily do it. You would also gain more power using the turbo and not using a bigger pulley for the charge. This is because a turbo takes less power that a supercharger. The other things you would want to consider are, whether the injectors can handle the boost, a new intercooler and transmission up grade. I think you could do it. Also, you would have the only benz with it.
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Originally Posted by jeep2121
what you guys are talking about, is called compound induction. I'm sure it could be done on a E55 if you could find a place to mount the turbo. One of the problems with doing this would be the compression ratio of the stock motor. Dont get me wrong you could do this to a stock motor, but you would have to run race gas all the time to pervent detonation. If some one makes low compression pistons for that motor you could easily do it. You would also gain more power using the turbo and not using a bigger pulley for the charge. This is because a turbo takes less power that a supercharger. The other things you would want to consider are, whether the injectors can handle the boost, a new intercooler and transmission up grade. I think you could do it. Also, you would have the only benz with it.
Another intercooler (air to air) for the turbo is a must as well as ECU and fuel system modifications. Stock injectors are 40lb/hr and only good for 625-650HP.
Anything is possible with enough resources.
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Originally Posted by jeep2121
what you guys are talking about, is called compound induction. I'm sure it could be done on a E55 if you could find a place to mount the turbo. One of the problems with doing this would be the compression ratio of the stock motor. Dont get me wrong you could do this to a stock motor, but you would have to run race gas all the time to pervent detonation. If some one makes low compression pistons for that motor you could easily do it. You would also gain more power using the turbo and not using a bigger pulley for the charge. This is because a turbo takes less power that a supercharger. The other things you would want to consider are, whether the injectors can handle the boost, a new intercooler and transmission up grade. I think you could do it. Also, you would have the only benz with it.
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medici,
Anything is possible with money, but swapping forms of forced induction on an E55 are just not worth the hassle. We actually have an expensive, highly efficient supercharger from the factory. How much power do you want? I think 700hp is possible with the factory supercharger, on the factory drivetrain. That's really about as much as you are going to need. Look at Derek, he's trapping 129mph with practically nothing. If you could find a way to replace that 65 shot of nitrous with 65hp in some other way, you've got a car with SICK power.
TTing is just not necessary, bottom line.
-m
Anything is possible with money, but swapping forms of forced induction on an E55 are just not worth the hassle. We actually have an expensive, highly efficient supercharger from the factory. How much power do you want? I think 700hp is possible with the factory supercharger, on the factory drivetrain. That's really about as much as you are going to need. Look at Derek, he's trapping 129mph with practically nothing. If you could find a way to replace that 65 shot of nitrous with 65hp in some other way, you've got a car with SICK power.
TTing is just not necessary, bottom line.
-m
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Originally Posted by Marcus Frost
medici,
Anything is possible with money, but swapping forms of forced induction on an E55 are just not worth the hassle. We actually have an expensive, highly efficient supercharger from the factory. How much power do you want? I think 700hp is possible with the factory supercharger, on the factory drivetrain. That's really about as much as you are going to need. Look at Derek, he's trapping 129mph with practically nothing. If you could find a way to replace that 65 shot of nitrous with 65hp in some other way, you've got a car with SICK power.
TTing is just not necessary, bottom line.
-m
Anything is possible with money, but swapping forms of forced induction on an E55 are just not worth the hassle. We actually have an expensive, highly efficient supercharger from the factory. How much power do you want? I think 700hp is possible with the factory supercharger, on the factory drivetrain. That's really about as much as you are going to need. Look at Derek, he's trapping 129mph with practically nothing. If you could find a way to replace that 65 shot of nitrous with 65hp in some other way, you've got a car with SICK power.
TTing is just not necessary, bottom line.
-m
I just have this thought in my head I can't shake that a turbo system always much more efficient than any S/C.
Could you elaborate more on the 700hp theory? What makes the E55's supercharger more efficient than others?
Last edited by medici78; Jul 28, 2005 at 04:17 PM.
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Originally Posted by medici78
I guess I sometimes miss the rush of the big turbo on the top end. I'm sure you of all people would understand.
I just have this thought in my head I can't shake that a turbo system always much more efficient than any S/C.
Could you elaborate more on the 700hp theory? What makes the E55's supercharger more efficient than others?
I just have this thought in my head I can't shake that a turbo system always much more efficient than any S/C.
Could you elaborate more on the 700hp theory? What makes the E55's supercharger more efficient than others?
Here's a good read for you:
http://www.ttmtechnical.com/overview_of_blowers.htm
-m
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Originally Posted by Marcus Frost
I do know what you mean, but I also greatly appreciate low end grunt as well. I don't think we need to go into the pros and cons of turbos vs superchargers.
Here's a good read for you:
http://www.ttmtechnical.com/overview_of_blowers.htm
-m
Here's a good read for you:
http://www.ttmtechnical.com/overview_of_blowers.htm
-m
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I know of a twin turbo set-up
Hey guys, new to the forum, but not to turbocharging. Also, I realize that this thread is about 7 months old, but thought that my information would be enlightening to some perhaps. As a new owner of a 99 E55, I wanted more power of course, and preferring the chararcteristics of a turbocharger over a supercharger, I explored my options. I came to the realization that there aren't that many companies that turbocharge Mercedes, and if there are, it's $$$, not worth it IMHO. So I turned to my friend Tim down here in San Diego and the owner of Speed Force Racing, a very reputable shop that's been featured in varios magazines to include Eurotuner. He did some work on my Porsche and did a great job which is what led me to him for my E55 "upgrade"
I havn't had any of the work done yet, and probably wont for the next few months or so, but figured I would share with you guys what he told me. He quoted me around $9000.00 for a custom turbo set up which includes installation, tuning and all parts. I havn't gone over with him yet the details such as turbo size ect, but he did say that on a very conservative tune that he could get around 550Rwhp and on the extreme side, an easy 750 rwhp. Defenetely more bang for the buck. And no, I'm not in any way connected to SFR, just spreading the good word. When I get my set up completed I'll post pics and more info.....but it won't be for a while so don't hold your breath.
Ben
I havn't had any of the work done yet, and probably wont for the next few months or so, but figured I would share with you guys what he told me. He quoted me around $9000.00 for a custom turbo set up which includes installation, tuning and all parts. I havn't gone over with him yet the details such as turbo size ect, but he did say that on a very conservative tune that he could get around 550Rwhp and on the extreme side, an easy 750 rwhp. Defenetely more bang for the buck. And no, I'm not in any way connected to SFR, just spreading the good word. When I get my set up completed I'll post pics and more info.....but it won't be for a while so don't hold your breath.
Ben
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Originally Posted by Jakpro1
If the flipping motors were even close to affordable.....like in the 10K-15K range.....a lot more of us would even try it. But 35K....that is confirmed, wow, too much to spend if I made a mistake on twin turbs and roasted it.
Actually, I've found several 55k motors for sale off of junked cars with a few thousand miles for $15-20k.
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R Range needs to post on this one... he had a BAD Cobra Saleen that he dropped a HUGE amount of money on... well not huge compared to what it costs to do things to our E55's, but it was huge to me at the time and he sold it because he couldn't get it twin turbo charged... in fact he was helping a company out by paying for one in advance.. well it never happened and I got his car, I loved it until I fell in love with the E55.... now he's got his Viper TT... I think close to 1000 rwhp... CRAZY...
