Can I ask you 55 guys an honest question.
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From: Salt Lake City (but not Morm)
2003 E55 & 2014 GL550
Can I ask you 55 guys an honest question.
It's no secret I have been struggling way up in the air with power. Nothing worse than spending nearly 12K for Klee mods and running 12.7 due to near 5000 ft elevation. Plenty of experience dragging.....car hooked great....Just not much air up here. 12.7 was my best time too!
From what I have read, turbs do much better at elevation as they will spin up to the amount of boost required.
Must admit, I do okay, but not as good as some of you. Was thinking of (gulp) selling the 55 and shooting for an 04 S600. Then just going Kleemann ECU mod. Trey pulled 11.5's with his. Course that was at near 0 elevation at Sacramento. Wonder what a little NOS would do to the mighty twin turb 12.
I guess nothing would be worse than doing all this and STILL running slower than normal.
You think turbs would help up here. Maybe I should just take my lumps and reside to the fact that I am in high alt hell.
p.s....."What the F are you doing in Utah" look, I don't wanna be here, but the ole lady is from the Salt Lake City (dad military) and she put up with me moving her around the country while I was building the business. I owed her, and brought her back home a few years ago. Actually not that bad, just a little freaky with the Morms.
Anyway, thanks for any honest input.
From what I have read, turbs do much better at elevation as they will spin up to the amount of boost required.
Must admit, I do okay, but not as good as some of you. Was thinking of (gulp) selling the 55 and shooting for an 04 S600. Then just going Kleemann ECU mod. Trey pulled 11.5's with his. Course that was at near 0 elevation at Sacramento. Wonder what a little NOS would do to the mighty twin turb 12.
I guess nothing would be worse than doing all this and STILL running slower than normal.
You think turbs would help up here. Maybe I should just take my lumps and reside to the fact that I am in high alt hell.
p.s....."What the F are you doing in Utah" look, I don't wanna be here, but the ole lady is from the Salt Lake City (dad military) and she put up with me moving her around the country while I was building the business. I owed her, and brought her back home a few years ago. Actually not that bad, just a little freaky with the Morms.
Anyway, thanks for any honest input.
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'03 Yukon XL Denali, '06 Eclipse GS
Jak, no pun intended, but if you're wanting another car just to prove for only once at the track that you have a fast car, I think it's a waste of a fine car. Like many of us consider, the E55 is surely a bang for the buck. Just my take on this one.
Running 12's might not be great for you, but sure is a wake up call for others.
Running 12's might not be great for you, but sure is a wake up call for others.
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From: El Paso, TX
'03 G500, '13 G63, '17 GLS63,
The air density will still be the same whether you run n/a, turbo or s/c.
The only difference would be if you had a boost controller and you could turn up the boost to compensate, but a Renntech'ed V12 biturbo car wont have this option anyway.
The only difference would be if you had a boost controller and you could turn up the boost to compensate, but a Renntech'ed V12 biturbo car wont have this option anyway.
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From: El Paso, TX
'03 G500, '13 G63, '17 GLS63,
Originally Posted by ricky.agrawal
medici78, but isn't a turbo charged car a little less swayed by air temps and altitude because the turbos spool therfore forcing air in when it's full?
My old single turbo'ed MKIV Supra TT ran MUCH better with cooler air temps and lower elevation. Same goes for my E55.
Elevation and air temps make a difference no matter what type of aspiration.
Last edited by medici78; Oct 16, 2005 at 02:25 AM.
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From: Pacific Northwest
04 E500 Brabus Wagon
5,000 ft.
N20 (like vetluver recommends) is two parts nitrogen and one part oxygen. This additonal oxygen will allow more fuel to be entered and burned thus likely solve your problem.
Derek is also right because after you run at a lower elevation you will know more about the effect of elevation... then all you do is invite contenders to meet you in Mormville and when they run a second slower at 5,000ft they will also learn the effect of less oxygen on performance.
Derek is also right because after you run at a lower elevation you will know more about the effect of elevation... then all you do is invite contenders to meet you in Mormville and when they run a second slower at 5,000ft they will also learn the effect of less oxygen on performance.
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1989 Toyota Tercel EZ - dyno'd @ 70whp/77wtq
Originally Posted by medici78
Originally Posted by ricky.agrawal
medici78, but isn't a turbo charged car a little less swayed by air temps and altitude because the turbos spool therfore forcing air in when it's full?
My old single turbo'ed MKIV Supra TT ran MUCH better with cooler air temps and lower elevation. Same goes for my E55.
Elevation and air temps make a difference no matter what type of aspiration.
It's b/c S/C uses engine's RPM to move the turbine that moves the compressor, while Turbo uses exhaust gas to move the turbine that moves the compressor.
As a result, in turbo, the lack of air density b/c of temp and altitude is offset by the turbine that spins faster due to higher speed of exhaust gas that is due to bigger difference between inner engine pressure and outside pressure. This does not happen w/ S/C.
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From: Salt Lake City (but not Morm)
2003 E55 & 2014 GL550
Jak, no pun intended, but if you're wanting another car just to prove for only once at the track that you have a fast car, I think it's a waste of a fine car. Like many of us consider, the E55 is surely a bang for the buck. Just my take on this one.
The current S body will look really tired when the new S is launched in a few months.
Drive to a lower elevation and run it. Without doing that, you won't have isolated that elevation is really the problem.
I am seriously thinking about wet NOS. According to the locals, it's the only GOOD thing in this performance hell we are in. Less oxygen means even Kleemann modded cars run more rich......thus a better chance at running NOS with no problems. Of course no threat to you though Derek, NOS would only get me back to sea level performance....grrrr. Less I ran 250 shot..heh heh
Taking her to the dyno when I can this week. Fixed the radiator leak, just snugged up the clamps, so let's find out what I am putting down.
Again, thanks for the not flaming the F outta me on this. As always, you guys are the best.
Jim
Last edited by Jakpro1; Oct 16, 2005 at 11:30 AM.
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1989 Toyota Tercel EZ - dyno'd @ 70whp/77wtq
Jakpro1, you must've known some E55 owners who live in similar altitude and temp to Utah.... check what their numbers are.... who knows it's not solely b/c of altitude & temp.... could be b/c of something else.
Anyway, did you get them installed at Kleeman's Colorado Springs shop? If that's the case, what was their claims? (I think Rock's E55 was frequently dynoed during the setup). I ask this b/c Colorado Springs is in the same altitude as Salt Lake City.
Anyway, did you get them installed at Kleeman's Colorado Springs shop? If that's the case, what was their claims? (I think Rock's E55 was frequently dynoed during the setup). I ask this b/c Colorado Springs is in the same altitude as Salt Lake City.
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Hey guys I happen to have a lot of experience on this subject as I alsol live at altitude (5500ft). The superchargers definitley lose about the same as the NA cars while most turbo cars run the same.
My buddies RS6 for example is FASTER at altitude than at sea-level. He ran 12.8 up here & 13.1 at sea-level. His traps were 2mph worse at sea-level. The thicker air at the coast means more resistance towards the end of the 1/4.
RS6's have a barometric pressure sensor & they compensate for altitude by boosting slightly higher to make sea-level power (if the turbo has enough "spare capacity" to overboost. The wastegate only opens when a certain absolute pressure is reached.
Supercharger have to deal with the 17% thinner air up here. The air molecules are further apart. The supercharger lobes compress less air on every cycle than they do at sea-level.
My buddies RS6 for example is FASTER at altitude than at sea-level. He ran 12.8 up here & 13.1 at sea-level. His traps were 2mph worse at sea-level. The thicker air at the coast means more resistance towards the end of the 1/4.
RS6's have a barometric pressure sensor & they compensate for altitude by boosting slightly higher to make sea-level power (if the turbo has enough "spare capacity" to overboost. The wastegate only opens when a certain absolute pressure is reached.
Supercharger have to deal with the 17% thinner air up here. The air molecules are further apart. The supercharger lobes compress less air on every cycle than they do at sea-level.
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From: Salt Lake City (but not Morm)
2003 E55 & 2014 GL550
Hey M, thanks for the info. Sometimes you think you are going nuts......this car just doesn't run like other members. Don't get me wrong.....she rocks, but 12.7 and 11.7 is a pretty different set of hp numbers. The locals just could not have been cooler....they all knew. Said the same thing....if you were at sea level, that Fin car woulda been 11's....Holy *****.
Wish I was a mechanical wiz...I swear I would put the V12 twin turbs on the E and see what the hell happened. Course then you get into ECU issues...son of aaaaaaa.
I guess honestly, the best thing would be to have a custom pulley system made to run massive overboost....course if I ever came down to sea level, I would probably cook it....but surrre would be fun.
For now, going to run it a few more times up here to see....meantime get dynod to see what kind of air/fuels I am talking about....then put this pup on the bottle.
I think.....
You gotta understand guys....I almost got my a$$ handed to me by a WRX the other day....he stayed pretty even behind me....and of course, I live in Subaru Central up here. Four wheel drives with 300hp.....even grannies drive some version. The young pups drive the turbs.
From all I hear, twin turb new motor from MB will be introduced for 07 or 08 model year. Think that is when I am going for it...hopefully they slap it in the E.
Wish I was a mechanical wiz...I swear I would put the V12 twin turbs on the E and see what the hell happened. Course then you get into ECU issues...son of aaaaaaa.
I guess honestly, the best thing would be to have a custom pulley system made to run massive overboost....course if I ever came down to sea level, I would probably cook it....but surrre would be fun.
For now, going to run it a few more times up here to see....meantime get dynod to see what kind of air/fuels I am talking about....then put this pup on the bottle.
I think.....
You gotta understand guys....I almost got my a$$ handed to me by a WRX the other day....he stayed pretty even behind me....and of course, I live in Subaru Central up here. Four wheel drives with 300hp.....even grannies drive some version. The young pups drive the turbs.
From all I hear, twin turb new motor from MB will be introduced for 07 or 08 model year. Think that is when I am going for it...hopefully they slap it in the E.
Last edited by Jakpro1; Oct 16, 2005 at 06:38 PM.
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I have 2 buddies, one has a supercharged M3 & the other a supercharged M-coupe (both Euro spec so 321hp stock). They have the Vortech centrifugal s//c's so I don't know i the same applies to the roots type blowers. But they run almost a second faster at sea-level. Running 11.7 & 11.8 at the coast & 12.5-12.6 up here.
I've also seen the C32's & E55's lose the same margin. But what some of them are doing is installing the Aquamist water injection. That helps the efficiency & regains some of the power loss.
I've also seen the C32's & E55's lose the same margin. But what some of them are doing is installing the Aquamist water injection. That helps the efficiency & regains some of the power loss.
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Drives Slowly
Jackpro,
What kind of times were you running before your mods (time and trap speed)?
I thought you had a 585hp dyno after your modifications? I assume you also had a low trap speed with the 12.7 run. I am shocked that 5,000 ft can alter the power of your car that significantly.
I have a couple of E-tanks of N2O2 in my office. It sounds like you may need them more than I do.
What kind of times were you running before your mods (time and trap speed)?
I thought you had a 585hp dyno after your modifications? I assume you also had a low trap speed with the 12.7 run. I am shocked that 5,000 ft can alter the power of your car that significantly.
I have a couple of E-tanks of N2O2 in my office. It sounds like you may need them more than I do.
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From: Salt Lake City (but not Morm)
2003 E55 & 2014 GL550
I have a couple of E-tanks of N2O2 in my office. It sounds like you may need them more than I do.
Nah, honestly Rock...I am just being picky. Car pulls super hard and really kicks. It's just like I mentioned, you spend all this $$$, to have the car pull C32 times (again no offense to C guys).
No more B S....booking dyno time this week. Let's get er on and see what she does....then try to catch this smaller local track before it closes for the year and see if she pulls a better time in the cool weather.
Will let ya know. Not to worry with the Rock machine...you are a lower sea level, your car will be an ANIMAL.
:v
