Kleemann (K2) time slips: BEFORE and AFTER
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Kleemann (K2) time slips: BEFORE and AFTER
Let me first explain the experiment. I have a 2005 E55 that I absolutely loved. It had it all; speed, grace, and power. But like many of you, this just was not good enough. I was ready to test the hypothesis that this car can be improved.
After a long search of how I could make this car better, I was "steered" to Kleemann. Below, you will see two time slips. The first is of my car stock and the other is after K2 with LSD.
The stock run was at Norwalk National Raceway. This is a great and fast track. My 12.622 @ 114.49 was with traction control on and a, "stomp the gas" start. The temp. was about 58 degrees with no wind. Also, street tires with normal pressure were used.
I wanted to get back to Norwalk under the same conditions after my K2 conversion, but they were closed for the season.
Because I did not wish to wait until next year, I was forced to take a trip to Dragway 42.
Unfortunately, this is not a good track (IMO). It is slow and I swear it goes uphill. The temp at the track was again in the mid-fifties but I raced into a head-wind of 20mph.
Again, traction control on, and "stomp the gas" was the technique. I ran a 12.2 @ 119.0. At Norwalk, with no wind I am sure I woud have run high 11's @ 120+.
I'm I happy? You bet!!!! I would do this again, because I think Kleeman has some great products.
After a long search of how I could make this car better, I was "steered" to Kleemann. Below, you will see two time slips. The first is of my car stock and the other is after K2 with LSD.
The stock run was at Norwalk National Raceway. This is a great and fast track. My 12.622 @ 114.49 was with traction control on and a, "stomp the gas" start. The temp. was about 58 degrees with no wind. Also, street tires with normal pressure were used.
I wanted to get back to Norwalk under the same conditions after my K2 conversion, but they were closed for the season.
Because I did not wish to wait until next year, I was forced to take a trip to Dragway 42.Unfortunately, this is not a good track (IMO). It is slow and I swear it goes uphill. The temp at the track was again in the mid-fifties but I raced into a head-wind of 20mph.
Again, traction control on, and "stomp the gas" was the technique. I ran a 12.2 @ 119.0. At Norwalk, with no wind I am sure I woud have run high 11's @ 120+.
I'm I happy? You bet!!!! I would do this again, because I think Kleeman has some great products.
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Whatever keys I grab first...
... no pun intended, and I understand your conditions, but I've personally seen stock E55s running 12 flat...
Given good conditions, you could dip into mid-to-high 11s, no?
Given good conditions, you could dip into mid-to-high 11s, no?
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Originally Posted by Lexani
... no pun intended, and I understand your conditions, but I've personally seen stock E55s running 12 flat...
Given good conditions, you could dip into mid-to-high 11s, no?
Given good conditions, you could dip into mid-to-high 11s, no?
Show me a stock E55 that can trap at 119. With DR or a good driver, this is now a mid 11sec car.
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Rock, nice mods. With all due respect, it is not a mid 11's car. It is a 12.2 car which is slower than some stock E55's. I assume by those slow 60' times that you are still running the stock tires. Your car may have mid 11 potential (best K2 time to my knowledge is an 11.65) but until it runs it, it ain't there yet.
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Thanks Rock for the update ... I think a comparison on the same track would be ideal. I am also a little surprised by the 60' times should be around .35 gain there alone ... and it does not seem the LSD has helped here at all.
If u take the 60' net of RT you were quicker before the upgrade. Pretty surprising and disappointing to me. Think you might be better off without TC. The TC seems to be quite agressive in pulling back the power, and now with more power it might pull back for longer.
What tyres (tires for u guys) are you running? PS2's or the Conti's?
Happy you are happy though !!!
Rgds Steve.
If u take the 60' net of RT you were quicker before the upgrade. Pretty surprising and disappointing to me. Think you might be better off without TC. The TC seems to be quite agressive in pulling back the power, and now with more power it might pull back for longer.
What tyres (tires for u guys) are you running? PS2's or the Conti's?
Happy you are happy though !!!
Rgds Steve.
Last edited by stevebez; Oct 20, 2005 at 04:09 AM.
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Originally Posted by DerekFSU
Rock, nice mods. With all due respect, it is not a mid 11's car. It is a 12.2 car which is slower than some stock E55's. I assume by those slow 60' times that you are still running the stock tires. Your car may have mid 11 potential (best K2 time to my knowledge is an 11.65) but until it runs it, it ain't there yet.
Steve, I am not sure I have an answer for you regarding the LSD. Maybe, traction control needs to be off to show the true benefit from this mod.
Please, take these post for what they are worth. I am not here trying to sell you Kleemann products or trying to show you how great my car is. I only post these details to provide more accurate information on what these modifications actually do to performance. I'm just here to share information.
Last edited by Rock; Oct 20, 2005 at 11:14 AM.
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I'm a HUGE Kleemann fan. Remember that we have the same mods minus the IC, tires, and nitrous.
You're right about trap speed. My best trap with K2 & DR's was 121.9 so you're right there. I can't believe you haven't upgraded your tires. You're leaving a lot of your gains in the spin mode.
Get some OEM 18' rims and a pair of BF DR's. The wheels will match at the track thus drawing no attention to them. I prefer the MT's but you'll need custom 16" rims and the gains are not very much.
You're right about trap speed. My best trap with K2 & DR's was 121.9 so you're right there. I can't believe you haven't upgraded your tires. You're leaving a lot of your gains in the spin mode.
Get some OEM 18' rims and a pair of BF DR's. The wheels will match at the track thus drawing no attention to them. I prefer the MT's but you'll need custom 16" rims and the gains are not very much.
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Rock you picked up almost 5 mph out the back door I think thats pretty good. Put it on a dyno jet and you should be around 460 to 480 rwhp.
I have been to norwalk so I know what you are talking about. The track has an incline after the traps to help cars slow down.
The thing is every one here automatically looks at the et which is only an indication of traction while the trap speed tells the real story. Rock keep working on the launch and your car will go faster, you should be able to 60ft in the 1.90's.
I was planning on going to the track friday to finally hit it with the nos but hurricane wilma has other plans. The goal for me is to go as fast as possible in full street trim 20's and all.
Keep going to the track your times will only get better. Good luck you have a very nice ride
I have been to norwalk so I know what you are talking about. The track has an incline after the traps to help cars slow down.
The thing is every one here automatically looks at the et which is only an indication of traction while the trap speed tells the real story. Rock keep working on the launch and your car will go faster, you should be able to 60ft in the 1.90's.
I was planning on going to the track friday to finally hit it with the nos but hurricane wilma has other plans. The goal for me is to go as fast as possible in full street trim 20's and all.
Keep going to the track your times will only get better. Good luck you have a very nice ride
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Rock .. No problem - I enjoy you sharing this change with us .. its been an amazing coverage of the transformation ... and has me gagging for the K2 - and I dont even have my car yet !!!
No criticism at all ... but trying to understand whats going on esp on the LSD side.
Rgds Steve.
No criticism at all ... but trying to understand whats going on esp on the LSD side.
Rgds Steve.
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Steve, I spoke to Cory (@Kleemann) he said that the 60ft. times likely didn't change because of the traction control. When you just mash the throttle, the tires won't hesitate to break loose, so the ESP is applying the brakes to both of your rear wheels, and it's most likely closing the throttle as well.
Let's just attribute my failure to see 11 second 1/4 mile times to me.
Let's just attribute my failure to see 11 second 1/4 mile times to me.
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Luke at Tirerack is used to us calling and buggin him about factory rims with Drag Radials.....knows exactly what we need. Before opening next spring Rock, you should have him set you up. Would almost guarantee 11's. The mash and go technique will go much smoother with Drag Radials.
Mine mounted, balanced and shipped were around 1500.
Mine mounted, balanced and shipped were around 1500.
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Update:
I wanted to update this thread after I had a chance to drive the K2 car for a while and allow the car to adapt to some of the new modifications. I visited the track yesterday, one more time before I change my stock tires to DR. The track conditions were similar to my pre-modification run. I ran stock tire pressure and had TC on. I made three runs and the car trapped @ 122 or 123 each time.
I am not sure why my trap speeds have increase an additional 3-4mph since I had the modifications completed. Does this car really need to "learn" its new modifications before making maximum HP? This car pulls so incredibly hard that my TC light is flashing even through 3rd gear.
Final thoughts................ I love the car, I love what Kleemann K2 does for the car and I would do it again in a heartbeat.
I wanted to update this thread after I had a chance to drive the K2 car for a while and allow the car to adapt to some of the new modifications. I visited the track yesterday, one more time before I change my stock tires to DR. The track conditions were similar to my pre-modification run. I ran stock tire pressure and had TC on. I made three runs and the car trapped @ 122 or 123 each time.
I am not sure why my trap speeds have increase an additional 3-4mph since I had the modifications completed. Does this car really need to "learn" its new modifications before making maximum HP? This car pulls so incredibly hard that my TC light is flashing even through 3rd gear.
Final thoughts................ I love the car, I love what Kleemann K2 does for the car and I would do it again in a heartbeat.
Last edited by Rock; Nov 20, 2005 at 10:26 AM.
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Rock...great update! Have you tried other launching techniques other than "mash n go"? I've been told possibly that launching with a slight hit on the accelerator to get the tires rolling, then mashing the throttle for dear life might be better.
Personally, I haven't dragged my E55 yet and the technique above is only another option told to me. Goodluck with more runs and I hope to join you in the Kleeman family in the future!
Personally, I haven't dragged my E55 yet and the technique above is only another option told to me. Goodluck with more runs and I hope to join you in the Kleeman family in the future!
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AMGfan:
I should clarify. I do stomp the gas, but I power-brake to about 1200 rpm. I have not tried the other technique you mention. I should check how Derek launches his car but I'm to lazy to search his past threads.
I should clarify. I do stomp the gas, but I power-brake to about 1200 rpm. I have not tried the other technique you mention. I should check how Derek launches his car but I'm to lazy to search his past threads.
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Originally Posted by Lexani
... no pun intended, and I understand your conditions, but I've personally seen stock E55s running 12 flat...
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Originally Posted by a_ok2me
I'm sure this has been answered in past threads, but is this with drag tires? Other than what AMG claims, what would the times be with street tires for a stock car?
Most stock E55 run the 1/4 at 12.2-12.6 @ 114-116. A few even do better than that. My runs were with stock tires. Even though my car has additional HP (trap @ 122+) It is unable to effectively get the power to the ground with the tires I am running.
