http://www.latimes.com/classified/au...-home-highway1

Front-end repair? Maybe just throw it away

BMW's new techniques and rules restrict what repair shops can do, and baffled insurers are junking the vehicles. Some critics think manufacturers are beginning to make throw-away cars.
By Ralph Vartabedian
Times Staff Writer

October 19, 2005

If you hear talk about things such as rivets, epoxy adhesives and aluminum structures, you might guess the subject involves airplanes.

But in this case, we are talking about the front ends of recent BMW Series 5 and Series 6 cars, which are constructed with many of the same techniques you might find at the Northrop Grumman F-18 assembly plant in El Segundo.

BMW touts the vehicles for their remarkable handling, fuel economy and elite engineering, but critics of the designs say they are impractical, vulnerable to minor accidents and difficult to repair the way BMW recommends.

The technology is another step in a much broader auto industry trend that is making collision repairs ever more costly, a kinder way of saying manufacturers are building throw-away cars. It means that more cars are totaled when they have relatively modest damage, particularly if they are more than five years old.

Although BMWs can certainly be repaired, it requires a degree of sophistication and cost that may be unprecedented.
BMW will certify auto body technicians only if they are employees of BMW dealerships, using BMW-approved parts, tools, adhesives and rivets. Though independent shops can buy equipment and get training, they are not allowed to say they perform certified repairs, BMW's official seal of approval.

"It is a game," said Don Feeley, owner of three independent body shops in Riverside. "Absolutely, they are shutting auto body shops out of their business."

Of course, BMW does not see it like that.

The BMW system, code named the Grav 60, was introduced in the 2004 model year. It features an aluminum firewall, which separates the engine compartment from the interior, and frame rails that extend forward, all riveted and glued to the rest of the car's steel structure. When the cars come out of the factory they are built to a tolerance of 1 millimeter, about the thickness of a dime.

The entire front structure weighs just 100 pounds, meaning the vehicles have a nearly perfect 50/50 weight distribution between the front and rear wheels, said Jeff Kohut, BMW's paint and body business development manager.

"It handles better," Kohut said. "Go drive a car with a steel nose and you can tell the difference cornering, braking and turning."

But one important question is what happens when your prized BMW gets kissed in the real world. With steel frame cars that are robotically welded at the factory, a body expert can put the car on a rack and bend it back into shape.

Under BMW's guidelines, any bending on the front end is verboten. An accident that deforms the front end by more than 1 millimeter requires the replacement of the main front-end structures. Because the engine, transmission, suspension and body are all connected to those structures, it is a labor-intensive process.

What's more, BMW specifies technicians can use only certain specialized tools, such as rivet extractors and rivet guns. Kenneth Zion, an auto body instructor at El Camino College and an independent collision consultant, says a shop can spend as much as $100,000 to fully outfit itself for BMW repairs. Zion, who has learned the system and will introduce the technology at El Camino, said the new system is unprecedented in how tightly the manufacturer is controlling the repair process.

It is so tight, in fact, that the repair and insurance industries are going a little nuts.

A claims adjuster for AAA, who has examined damaged BMW cars with the Grav 60 technology, says there is no question the repairs are more costly compared to those of a steel unibody.

"Certainly, people are alarmed," said the adjuster, who asked not to be identified because he would be handed his head if he were named. "An identical car made with steel parts would definitely be cheaper to repair. On one half of the BMW, you can have no straightening."
Feeley, among others, says BMW is overblowing the difficulty of repairing the vehicles. "The manufacturers have always said they are building things that can't be repaired, and we have figured out how to repair them," he said.

The broader trend is alarming the auto body industry, which is composed of thousands of mom and pop shops.

"Definitely, some of the auto makers want their certified shops or dealers to be the only ones approved to do repairs," said David McClune, executive director of the California Auto Body Assn. "If a shop has properly trained technicians and equipment, our position is they should have the opportunity to do those repairs."

Kohut said, however, that about 1,000 technicians have gone through BMW's two-day training course for Grav 60 repairs, about two-thirds of them from independent shops. Even though they are not certified, BMW accepts the fact that they can perform adequate repairs.

Although he rejects the idea that repair costs are higher on the Grav 60 system, Kohut said insurers are struggling to understand the technology.

"We have found the insurers are unsure of what to do with a car, so they declare it a total loss," he said. "They weren't sure it would be safe, so they send it to the salvage yard."


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Ralph Vartabedian can be reached at ralph.vartabedian@latimes.com.

 

so I wonder if insurance on BMW is more due to this issue.. would make sense if it were.

 

If it isn't already, I'd bet that it soon will be!

 

Wait, hold on.
Body shops are complaining that because of advanced technology that is better for the consumer, but doesn't get them the seal of approval because they don't have the tools nor the experience for it is a bad thing?

Well, that's a bummer, deal with it.
Am I looking at it wrong?

 

Maybe this means we'll be seeing more and more M5s piling into salvage.

 

this is funny cause i just saw a recked brand new 650i on a flatbed going down broadway, whole back was smashed. Feel bad for the owner.

 

Body Shops are complaining becoz even if they went through the same BMW training and used the exact same tools specified by BMW, they still don't get certified by BMW, only dealership employees do.

Have you taken your SAT yet? Maybe it's time to brush up on reading comprehension skills

 

That must suck for the owner

 

No ****?? Gee, thank you for pointing out, in not-so-plain English, what the article says, in plain English.

Oh, hahah, how hysterically funny. In all of my years of Internet surfing, I have rarely encountered such a scathing, sophisticated wit.

 

err..... sorry for my poor English, I'm not a native speaker.

 

so this can be fixed


And this cannot lol

 

Well, this seems like a waste of everyones time then.
BMW has every right to refuse BMW Certification to independent body shops. I don't see what's wrong with that.

And yes, I've taken the SAT's a few times, and I can never seem to hit 2400.

 

Bodyshop is complaining because they don't get a piece of the pie. Simple as that.

I would much prefer to total the car rather than repair it.

BTW, the story is so twisted. MB has similar program as well. My E55 is currently in bodyshop and has to be repaired by certified MBUSA shop.

(EMC, in fremont, is MB authorized body shop).

What BMW is doing is same as what MBUSA is doing. MBUSA will not certify indep shop if it is not qualified by their standard.

You as a consumer can still have your choice of body shop. If you don't want to goto a MB/BMW approved shop, the insurance agent would be more than happy to point you to an unqualified bodyshop. This applies to both BMW and MB. SAME TYPE OF DEAL!!!

To use an article that is so wrong and twisted to conclude that BMW can't be fixed is stupid and ignorant.

Then again, anything that improviz posted are about as useful as a piece of used toilet paper.

 

To claim that a conclusion was made, or posted, is beyond moronic, and once again shows that you've clogged to many arteries, thus ruining whatever pitiful English comprehension skills you may have once possessed.

What is painfully obvious to anyone with a brain--which, of course, rules you out--is that I simply posted the article, without a single, solitary comment or conclusion.

Aw, what's the matter, sweetie? Still sore at my beeyutch-slapping your fat *** around before? Shouldn't pick fights with your betters, fatty...

 

Its comments like this that make us believe that you are a troll sometimes. Just my opinion, take it or leave it since I dont give a **** what you think.

 

then again, who give a **** about what you think?

biased idiot still exist, simple as that.

 

In what way am I biased?

I have a Honda, Acura, BMW, and a ****ing Mercedes. I know that the E55 is not the best nor do I care, but its great for what I need.

 

Moronic? You should take a **** and look yourself in the mirror. You were the one who concur that

"If it isn't already, I'd bet that it soon will be!"

hmm, you are indeed drawing a conclusion that the LA times article was true hence BMW insurance is higher because it can't be fixed.

It is so funny that time after time you kept on posting junk and only to slap in the face. I guess your comment about clogged artery has come back to you and smack yourself in the face. English comprehension? Funny that is si coming from an idiot like you.

So Mr. clogged artery, please show me where you did not concur the claim that BMW can't be fixed and thus insurance is higher.

Yes, you simply posted an article. I guess the 3rd post in this thread does not exist.

This is just like the last comment you made about quality. DON'T START A FLAME WAR IF YOU CAN'T STAND UP TO YOUR IDIOT POST.

 

I need to apologize. As the biased idiot comment was not meant for you. Simply edited wrong. I was refering to Mr. Improviz the idiot.

However, I still don't give a damn what you think.

I state the truth as i see it. The simple fact is that MBUSA has same program as BMWNA on bodyshop certification and all issues raised by the LA times article applies to MB.

People like improviz are biased to a point they are like lemmings. Blindly follow the leader and jump into ocean and drowns. Simple as that.

 

Simple: you disagree with the lardass. In his paranoid mind, this constitutes "bias", by which he means "anyone who dares to have a different opinion than I, the great, short, fat, artery-clogged pigman."

In the Dictionary of Pig****, many words are synonymous with "bias", including "stupid", etc...pretty much any disagreement with The Great Tub O' Lard constitutes a violation of the Order of Lardiness, and ensures that you will be subjected to personal attacks and petty, vile behavior--in between bites of donuts and slugs of Mylanta, that is...

The great thing about fatty is that he's truly bipolar, meaning that he's quite capable of spewing as much **** out of his fingertips and onto our screens as he shoots out of his fat keister...a truly staggering amount when one considers the amount of donuts he gulps down on a daily basis.

 

One can observe the typos and poor writing rise in direct proportion to your blood pressure....and, as an added bonus, there's the outside chance that you might actually suffer a stroke or heart attack, thus ridding us of your polluting, offensive presence once and for all.

Moving right along:

Why do that, when I can take a dump and take a look at the mirror image of you?

Yes, I did indeed concur that the repair difficulties outlined by the Pulitzer-prize winning LA Times may well lead to higher insurance rates. Unfortunately, this is not what you accused me of concluding, or claiming:

I concluded, nor wrote, any such thing, you lying pig. I did concur with another poster's statement that these repair difficulties would in all likelihood result in higher insurance rates. And I stand by it, your moronic rant against myself and one of the country's top newspapers aside.

Again you demonstrate an utter lack of English comprehension. Neither my post, nor the post to which I was replying, even contained the word "fixed", or any synonym of "fixed", nor does it state or imply to anyone with a brain--which, as usual, rules you out--that the cars "can't be fixed". Pull your artery-clogged head out of your fat *** and read it again, fatboy.

It does; unfortunately, it does not say what your fat-soaked brain claims it does. Read it again.

Again you lie. I made nothing up about quality, I posted data from both JD Power and Consumer Reports. And my posts stand up just fine; it is you who again lies about what I've written, twice in one post.

Now wipe the donut crumbs off of your fat face, and keyboard, and try again, porker.

 

Dont sweat it. Do let us know how the M5 is when you get it please.

 

The truth as you see it is the truth as comprended by one who lacks basic reading comprension skills and processes them with a brain so clogged by lard that most synapses have long since shut off.

The article does NOT deal primarily with bodyshop certification; it deals with the difficulties involved in REPAIRING THE FIVE SERIES. Here are selected portions again, so that nobody is fooled by your blatant attempt to divert and propagandize:

Although BMWs can certainly be repaired, it requires a degree of sophistication and cost that may be unprecedented.

But one important question is what happens when your prized BMW gets kissed in the real world. With steel frame cars that are robotically welded at the factory, a body expert can put the car on a rack and bend it back into shape.

Under BMW's guidelines, any bending on the front end is verboten. An accident that deforms the front end by more than 1 millimeter requires the replacement of the main front-end structures. Because the engine, transmission, suspension and body are all connected to those structures, it is a labor-intensive process.

What's more, BMW specifies technicians can use only certain specialized tools, such as rivet extractors and rivet guns. Kenneth Zion, an auto body instructor at El Camino College and an independent collision consultant, says a shop can spend as much as $100,000 to fully outfit itself for BMW repairs. Zion, who has learned the system and will introduce the technology at El Camino, said the new system is unprecedented in how tightly the manufacturer is controlling the repair process.

It is so tight, in fact, that the repair and insurance industries are going a little nuts.

A claims adjuster for AAA, who has examined damaged BMW cars with the Grav 60 technology, says there is no question the repairs are more costly compared to those of a steel unibody.

"Certainly, people are alarmed," said the adjuster, who asked not to be identified because he would be handed his head if he were named. "An identical car made with steel parts would definitely be cheaper to repair. On one half of the BMW, you can have no straightening."

 

That's the point. MB does not even certify their own dealers unless their body shop met certain requirements.

Just kiddin' Ricky :p but I thought SAT only goes up to 1600.

 

Isn't the whole thing about BMW body shops problem related to the aluminum fire wall? or am I missing something..