04E55 AMG

Are you nuts! What beltway did you hit 147? We should try getting together with your 06 E55 buddy and run all three at various start speeds and compare.

E55_POWER

That is hillarious!!!

E55_POWER

For some strange reason, 495 was pretty wide open last night for a Friday night except for a few stragglers here and there. Maybe everyone was still out clubbing.

Our initial intention was to run up to about 100 or so and stop but 495 was so wide open we said "What the hell".

Man I have to admit that it's been like "forever" since I went that fast and being that I'm getting older 147 felt like 300 MPH. Scary and fun at the same time.

My buddy is scheduled to get his pulley installed the 1st week of Jan, and due to temp his car should fare much better.

I was pretty shocked by the results and pretty confused about a couple of them as they didn't really make sense. I guess there are so many factors involved that one could never really understand why 1 scenerio is so different than the other.

You back yet?

amgdriven

I usually volunteer to go to the store for a little "hunting" on the way :v

(well.....not as cool of ^ races though!...........scions,saturns,and kias seem to like the race the most )

Sweet write up!

art@kronen

Hey krispykrme, nice talking to you in person the other night. Feel free to drop by the shop anytime especially when you go racing at cushing/automall. LOL. I am right across NUMMI so i hope to see you sometime!

Improviz

skratch, BS. You really are ignorant if you think that it is in any way "easy" to pick up 100 horsepower on *any* engine that doesn't have forced induction.

Show me any independent, third-party dyno tests, and by independent I mean NOT one bought and paid for by the party selling the modifications, a clear conflict of interest.

To get a 20% increase on a NA motor WILL require changing out internals, period. It is NOT possible without new heads, cams, quite possibly pistons, and multiple other mods.

To think that you can get it without rebuilding the internals of the motor is a dream, and a very wet one at that.

ProjectC55

Impro you are something else! LOL!!! :p

skratch77

go do some resear on m engines my friend.

delage has an na kit for the m3 that gets up to 340rwhp and 365whp with cams added to there full na kit.

hartge has an na kit that gets 540hp with the e39 m5,I could go on and on.

bmw has said this engine was spun to over 10,000 rpms on the ring.Just wait till some tuners add cams to there cars and rev them a little higher

hamann has 603hp out of the m5 with get ready
CHIP
RACE CATS
MANI

now your going to say you don't believe the ratings but Im sure there real for
the amount of money these mods will cost.

supersprint dyno'd 550hp with just there cat back.Now are you doubting Supersprint also?What about hartge with there 550hp claim with just a chip?

http://www.kineda.com/?p=740

all your tests will be out when some people try these mods out.A member on m5board put down 467whp bone stock.

heres some gains on an m3 with just headers.I laughed when people on here were saying that there is no gains because BMW uses headers stock ok

http://www.evosport.com/product/prod...VO.EXH.B46.H01

SoulBladeZA

I won't say that it's not possible, but I will agree with Impro on this: I'll believe the numbes when I see them tested by a magazine or other 3rd party impartial to the car and the upgrades in question.

enzom

This really says it all. And this is what some people have refused to understand or accept on both sides of the debate. From a dig, whether it is a tree or a traffic light, the M5 is not going to beat an E55 unless you are racing up to 120 mph. From a roll, the M5 will not suffer from its lack of low end torque, and will be faster. The greater the speed, the greater the M5's advantage.

absent

Both in a similar price range,both offer a different approach to sports sedan concept,both would appeal to different tastes and performance needs.
Anybody claiming overall superiority of one over the other is either a complete fool or someone who never was able to drive /experience both.

Improviz

I have, unlike you. I am an Engineer, you see, and have studied Physics, Statics, Dynamics, Thermodynamics, and a lot of topics that are directly related to the subject of understanding how an internal combustion engine develops power.

You, on the other hand, by your own admission, "own a few pizza parlors".

So I ask you: what is your background in engineering to qualify such claims?

Can you provide a brief explanation of how one would go about raising the power of an internal combustion engine by 20% with no internal changes?

You then go on to quote the claims by firms who sell aftermarket modifications, but as I said before: these are claims. I want proof.

I saw an ad on television for a creme which will remove cellulite. Yet every there is no medical evidence that any such creme actually exists.

There are ads all the time claiming that certain herbs prevent cancer. None of them have been proven to do so. There are products which claim to reduce your weight by 50 lbs. in one month. They do not work.

There is a clear conflict of evidence here: of course the people who SELL it, and stand to PROFIT from its sale, can make claims. But magazines have done tests on chips on NA motors, and found these claims to be bogus.

Car & Driver, a few years ago, ran an article entitled "Chips Ahoy!", wherein they tested several manufacturers' chips on cars with NA motors, including two BMWs. These were Dinan chips.

The results: NO MEASUREABLE PERFORMANCE GAINS.

OK? So you can ignorantly quote the claims of people who have a vested interest in making inflated claims all day long, but until there is independent, third party testing done to support it, advertising claims won't cut it.

And as I said: Car & Driver already performed such tests, and found that the chips do not provide any measureable increase in performance. The ONLY car in the test to receive any benefit from a chip was the VW Passat 1.8T, and that was because the chip actually did something, i.e. raised the boost pressure of the turbos, which DID produce meeasurable performance gains. But NONE of the NA cars did, on MULTIPLE chips tested in MULTIPLE cars made by MULTIPLE manufacturers, *including* BMW.

Someone here needs to do some research, but it isn't me. Taking marketing claims over independent third-party testing is foolhardy, but as PT Barnum said: there's one born every minute. Caveat emptor.....

The other thing that I find infinitely amusing about you is that on one hand, you'll sit here and argue that BMW has performed one of the Greatest Engineering Feats in the History of Man in developing engines which produce 100 hp/l, and then turn around and argue that some small tuner outfit which doesn't have 1/1,000,000th the R&D budget of BMW can turn around and easily extract another 20-30% with a few simple mods, and of course they can do it within a few short months after the cars' release, even though BMW has been working on the engine's development for years!

I anxiously await a listing of your qualifications to comment on this subject, along with your dissertaion on how one obtains 20% horsepower increases from a NA motor without modifying its internals.

MRichmond

So true, and so much more concise, effective, polite and productive than the seemingly inevitable diatribes from some here.

Improviz

Some people take offense at being subjected to a constant barrage of trolls telling us how BMWs are oh so much better than Mercedes, and it shows sometimes.

Go to a BMW forum and post similar stuff about Mercedes and see what kind of diatribes you get in response.

a_ok2me

I've been bashing the M5 visual design - and a little performance - on the M5forum for many months now. But, then there's a lot of that, so it's nothing new. You bet there are defensive responses and personal attacks. But, they get controlled and I personally don't see it too often. MRichmond just mildly ripped on me for not having seen an M5, which is not true. I'm not sure if he has owned a previous M5, but I'm not sure he sees things they way most previous M5 owners see them. You really have to be an owner of the previous design to really understand.

In any case, to my shock, I just found out that the 5 series owns 25% market share vs its competitors. That baffles me and tells me that BMW doesn't care about complaints made by prior owners. They're going to go with the flow and then they promoted Bangle. It looks like MB is doing the same with the S class. I'm hoping hard they don't do that with the new E class.

MRichmond

What we have is an honest difference of opinion. What I posted on the M5 board in response to your comment that the leather on the E60 M5's doors looks plastic was, in part: "I won't address your personal stylistic preferances, but I don't think that anyone who actually has felt the leather used on the E60 M5 would make this comment." I certainly did not intend it as a rip but, rather, as an expression of how opposite my view is to yours. (I apparently wrongly assumed your lack of familiarity with the car.) We also will have to agree to disagree regarding the styling of the new models.

My main point here is that discussions of differences of opinions do not need to degenerate into vitriolic insults. As you recognize, that virtually never happens on the M5 board. The mere presence on this board of enthusiasts who enjoy or even prefer other makes should not be offensive. Nor should their expressions of opinions be castigated as "trolling." As absent aptly stated, absolutist claims that one manufacturer is better than another in all respects are not credible, especially when the manufacturers at issue are BMW and Mercedes. Each has tremendous cars to offer that serve different needs and desires, which is why my garage contains an example from each. And if someone is stirring the pot needlessly, perhaps the best response is not to be drawn into an inane argument that spirals out of control.

stevebez

Here here re the flaming ... each to his own ... however !!!

If there is in fact a 7 second gap bewteen the M5 and E55 I would be very surprised because 0-1000m E55 is 22.9, CLK DTM is 20.8. (diff 2.1).

Krispy did you not mean 7 car lengths ... ??

I know I am substituting 1000m time for 150mph but its not a bad substitute I think.

So that puts M5 quicker than DTM over 1000m by around 5 seconds .... uhm I dont think so.

I do agree though (and it has also been proved here at the start of the thread) the M5 is quicker in the 100+ territory stock for stock - cannot argue with the physics of gearing. So can we all agree to accept this !?

MrBenz55

Nice to see there are some women around that not only drive fast cars but also arnt afraid to use the gas pedal as well !

MrAMG

I am pretty sure we can work out something. Let's try to avoid attracting attention for now - want to keep this event low profile for obvious reasons. Let's talk when you come back!

E55_POWER

KK stated he thought he read that but wasn't sure. I don't think 7 seconds is accurate.

a_ok2me

I'm pretty sure it's 4. 7 is vs the avg of the entire group or something like that.

enzom

I agree with you to a certain extent. People should avoid ad hominem attacks. Sometimes, however, people do things that are so wrong that you need to respond in kind. Take that ja@@-off from a few weeks ago with the fake M5 timeslips and the unbelievable explanations. No courtesies are required there.

As for the M5board, there are generally no differences of opinion. Everyone seems to agree with everything. When there are disagreements, the M5Board moderators often step in and close, move, or "merge" threads - especially those that show the M5 as less than all-conquering. Differences of opinion are carefully moderated. So on this board, there is perhaps too much freedom to post. On M5board, there is perhaps too little. Let the mods go on vacation for 2 weeks, and I suspect M5Board may look more like this one.

siswati

To Enzom and MRichmond

What a wonderful thing diversity is - it keeps the entire world moving forward, and encourages the supply of alternatives and options.

What an incredible time to own an UBER-SEDAN - this is like the 70's BUT BETTER - MUCH BETTER.

Some of our viewers will be loyal to the brand, no matter what - MB, AUDI, BMW, PORSCHE etc.. Some will migrate across brands to sample and taste what the other brand has to offer. Its all good.

And we even have diverging forums. And thats a good thing!

I personally love MBWORLD for the fact that it allows people to post contradictory opinions, even radically divergent opinions, and then allows that poster's comments to be examined, ripped apart, agreed with, disagreed with, and sometimes even flamed.

I find the total agreement on the M5Board to be less to my liking. I beleive the moderators step in too often and too early.

Diversity of opinion nad choice encourages the emergence of all of our options, and imho should be encouraged.

And this is PURELY MY OPNION, and obviously it differs from some and agrees with others

MBWORLD MODS - I love what you are doing and I want to pat you on the back for the phenomenal enjoyment and entertainment this forum provides me (and others) on a daily basis

I love your lack of intrusion, but I did entirely agree with the removal of CRAZY_MERC_FAN in VelotE55's thread - and i am glad that his posts remain there for all to see.

Many thanks to you

Happy Holidays

Siswati

DerekFSU

AMEN!!!!!!!!!! It's called freedom and I'd rather have too much than not enough. It may not be as tidy, but it's real.

RezF

enzom,
I really believe you can state any opinion you want on the M5board as long as it is not insulting or containing foul language. There was a post by someone who said something to the effect that the M5 is butt ugly anf Chris Bangle should get fired and way to go BMW for fuc**ng up a great car. It generated many responses and it is still on the board.
I, for one, have been a VOCAL opponent of the E60 M5 and am not subtle about it. I hav never had any of my posts censored. JMHO