E55AMG99

none of which need lubrication

E55AMG99

Only if your gas tank holds 7 gallons. It takes about 2.5 gallons in a 20 gallon tank of 91 octane to make 94 and closer to 3 gallons mixed with 93 to make a 3 point jump to 96.

Cam timing? You mean ignition timing.

Mad TKD

well I was told that. It was not for a MB and this car had a pretty extensive fuel system so it was on 2oz or so. Not much for insurance

WayneE

Our cars are tuned to work on premium pump fuel (91 or 92). As far as I know, the ECU will not advance the timing past that point, no matter what fuel you use. You'd need a race gas tune to take advantage of a higher octane fuel (or additive).

amgdriven

I appreciate and absorb your knowledge on all of your posts (in which you have proven ) but...why do they add the lubricants.If it is not needed...why would they add it.They don't advertise the lubricants on the bottle. Do you really believe it would not help?

Once again, I will state I was an Ford advisor/Manager (stop laughing ) and we would have injector cleaners (made by Ford..for Fords) with lubricants added that was used in the 30k and 60k services.If Ford didn't think it would help...they wouldn't of added it.

E55AMG99

You are right but even a stock motor's need for octane is not measured in absolutes. In other words, there are many factors that can lead to an ECU reducing power to compensate for knock when running the factory recommended fuel AKI. Things like vehicle load, engine temp, amient temp, humidity, altitude, condition of plugs, etc. all can contribute to the need for higher rated fuel. How much higher? Probably no more than one or two points to completely eliminate knock and therefore allow the ECU to run maximum performance parameters. Anything more and you are wasting your money. Unless, like you stated, you have made modifications that will increase the minimum octane requirements.

E55AMG99

Thanks for the compliment. I'm only passing on what I have learned over the years before I'm too old to remember!

Being an employee of Ford is nothing to be ashamed of. They have produced some increadible cars over the years and still do. I wouldn't mind having an original GT40 alongside a new GT sitting in my garage!

Back to lubricants in fuel....IMO, they are advertised and added as a panacea to an unsuspecting public. In other words, marketing, plain and simple. However, historically speaking, there was a niche for fuel lubricants like Marvel Mystery Oil. Prior to the precise metering of EFI and unleaded gasoline, carbon and lead fouling were real problems. So bad in the case of high performance cars like my '66 Corvette, that spark plugs needed to be changed 2-3 times per year due to fouling. MMO and others loosened carbon and lead deposits from combustion chambers and intakes by saturating them and allowing them to be burned off.

Modern engines do not suffer from these problems and therefore do not need snake....Marvel Mystery Oil.

amgdriven

Once again, your point makes sense (after my first post....I went to Auto Zone to find that they ALL DO advertise the lubricants--- )

I will just watch this thread and keep my posts to myself untill I research them further.

E55AMG99

One thing that I ask myself when looking at this stuff is "If this product is so revolutionary, so unbelievable, so fantastic, will save the world, etc., why is it sold only on TV? Why isn't everyone else doing it? Johhnny Rutherford once told me that if it was really that good, someone bigger would have bought it by now.

ClayJ

Well, not that I disagree with what you're saying...but it is not necessarily a bad business model to let a TV marketing/processing company do your marketing, order taking, and order processing and shipping for you -- it does work as a business model for some, I suppose. That's why you always see the $6.95 or whatever S/H charge on those TV-promoted products - that's the marketing company's money on the sale....
So the fact that they're selling the product in that manner doesn't necessrily mean that it is a bad product. It might just simply mean that they chose that method, or that they didn't want to shop the product to retailers or distibutors, or that they didn't want to go into the effort, expense, and plant to market the product because their only interest was in creating the product, or it could mean taht they did shop it around and/or tried to market it and just didn't succeed -- all not necessarily meaning that or determined by the fact that it was indeed a bad product....

WayneE

I agree, somewhat... the manufacturers will tune it on the conservative side and then let the knock sensors take care of the rest. The problem there is that knock sensors are reactionary. The event has already occurred and the computer is trying to pull timing/add fuel to stop the events from recurring.

An engine that is on the ragged edge of detonation on pump gas won't last long due to the issues you've mentioned. With that in mind, the manufacturer will bring the tuning to the edge and then back it down a few ticks to allow a variety of operating conditions. Then it lets the knock sensors pick up the variations that fall outside those conditions.

So I still stick by my statement that an increased octane rating (race gas, toulene, Torco, etc) will not help stock cars. Modded cars may benefit, but it depends on the tuner. Ideally, you would run a pump gas tune on the street and a race gas tune at the track. This would be the best of both worlds.

Stiggs

I remember hearing that word Toluene once or twice in my Organic Chem class. I don't remember the rest...too hung over.

E55AMG99

Interesting way to look at it but in this country, capitalism is king. Anytime you can get your product into many channels of distribution, you go for it. Not only does this increase output (every store in the country buys a case x the number of different retailers) it gets your product in front of people that are actually in the market for product like yours or complimentary to yours. Remember, they are in the auto store looking at fuel additives and if yours isn't there, they are not going to buy it. Period. The majority of shoppers are not well educated when it comes to products like these. They listen to people on Internet forums , the retailer, their bartender, etc. and most of all, they look at the pretty packaging.

I've studied retail marketing a lot recently for my wine. Bottom line of all retail studies is if the customer can't hold it, touch it and fondle it, they most likely aren't going to go out of their way to buy it because there are near enough substitutes right in front of them.

Don't get me wrong. If I could sell as much wine as they do snake oil on TV, I'd be happy as a clam.

Bernanke

just try it... you will see what i mean . make sure u use a funnel and chemical gloves just to be safe (safety first). you will notice after 5 min once it mixes how different the car will behave.