Bernanke

hey guys, I was wondering if any of you guys use toluene in your cars. Lotta the bimmer guys and etc have been using them. I used it for years in my bmw and it was fantastic. Seems like the results would be even better in a FI benz. Just though i'd ask b/c it would really help (especially on the dyno and at the track).

55fanatic

can someone explain what it is? And what does it do?

vrus

I've used it.

Toluene is a Methylbenzene. Its just like using methanol or octane additives.

Toluene is the cheapest between octane booster and methanol so that is what makes it the most popular.

I used it in my high horsepower 993TT all the time and especially before doing an E-Test.

It was a little trick that people used when they had cars they knew wouldnt pass an emissions test.

E55AMG99

Toluene is an aromatic component of gasoline. Older formulations of gas had high aromatic content since they have very high (100-120) octane ratings. Newer formulations of gas have less aromatics to reduce pollution.

Adding pure toluene is a quick way to increase the AKI of gas. How much of an increase depends heavily on how much is already present in the gas from the pump. Too much toluene and drivability suffers.

I've used it for years with great success but found that the 100 octane available at the pump a few miles from home is much more convenient.

vraa

If your ECU isn't tuned to take in the extra octane you won't find any gain.

But remember, the ECU can compensate for a few percent here and there.

Don't expect to mix in to ramp up octane and get a massive performance increase. Like all things, measure three times, take a break, measure another three times and then cut.

Catapult

I have heard adding 4 to 6 oz of acetone/tank produces similar results with increased gas mileage..

L8Apex

I used it in my M3 with good results. A lot cheeper than 100 octane. You can find it at any paint store.

E55AMG99

Absolutely! BTW, the stuff at the paint store is not always full strength not 100% pure. Octane rating can quite a bit lower than the 120 you'd expect from full strength.

benzmodz

I would touch the stuff I were you simply for no other reason than if you make a small mistake handling it - it will burn right through your skin in about the same amount of time it takes you to scream ______

It is not desireable because of its lousy safety. As a fuel it is just another Benzene compound.

E55AMG99

LOL! More FUD!

While it does remove oils from your skin and wax from your car, it is no more dangerous than gasoline. After all, gasoline can contain up to 50% toluene from the rack.

55fanatic

so what would u use? Something from the paint store? Or is it an actual additive?

Acetone can be added as well? What are the mixing procedures?

benzmodz

A toluene crystal took the skin right off my finger. Blink and it was a blister.

E55AMG99

55fanatic,
I used to buy it from an industrial fuel/chemical supplier supply called Coast Oil in San Jose but you can look in the phone book for someone/something similar. You can use the stuff from the paint store only if you are 100% certain that it is 100% toluene and pure. Price in 55 gallon drums (I used to race and had my own shop) was about $1.45 per gallon back in the early 1990's compared to $3-4 per gallon from the paint store. I'd imagine prices have nearly doubled today.

For the rest of you who are skeptical of toluene, do some real research on the subject but PLEASE stop spreading misinformation. Or, if you are too lazy, read on.

From memory, toluene is rated 120/107 AKI and 114(R+M)/2. Using a 10%ratio of 92 octane and toluene nets a 94.5 Octane mix 20%...96.5 Octane 30%...98.5 Octane. Since it also has a very low sensativity rating (120-107=13) it will not lose much performance as load increases.

No need to worry about your cats and O2 sensors, either. Toluene is a pure hydrocarbon which means it contains only carbon and hydrogen (C7H8 or is it C8H7, I forget). It burns cleanly into CO2 and H2O. There are no metals or other byproducts at all.

Toluene is denser than the average gasoline mix (0.87 g/mL vs. about 0.72) and contains more energy per gallon of gas. It contains quite a bit more energy than oxygenated octane boosters like ethanol or MTBE used more commonly today. The higher heating value of toluene also means that the exhaust gases contain more kinetic energy, which helps turbos spin up faster.

A 10% increase in the aromatic content of gas will most likely be well within the refining specifications of gasoline used up until a coupe of years ago of 20-45% The ASTM spec I have is a little old but I can't find the new one where it had changed recently to lower numbers. My guess is that gasoline being made today is no more than 30% aromatics. Even if it was 0%, the cars we have are already geared to run on much higher aromatic content since this is what we have been using for 30 years. Besides, aromatic content of gasoline in other countries is much, much higher.

That being said, I would not go any higher than ading 20% in a street car just to be safe because cold start and low temp drivability might suffer. As is the case with other components with a high AKI, toluene is more difficult to ignite than the other components in gasoline. This is both a benefit and its only weakness IMO.

Any other questions?

E55AMG99

Dude, what were you doing with it? BTW, don't confuse toluene, the liquid solvent/aromatic with the oxidizing compound toluene-monoxygenase which I believe is crystal form. You are talking about the stuff that breaks toluene down, right?

BTW, of all the aromatics in gasoline, toluene is the easiest to remove from the groundwater if contaminated.

ClayJ

Dang E55AMG99 I got schooled! Nice job. Great post.

E55AMG99

LOL! Thanks.

I just hate it when people toss out one sentence answers for very technical subjects. Gasoline is probably the single most misunderstood component of the automobile. My advice to those who have no real knowledge or first hand experience on the subject is to just shut up, listen and learn something instead of spreading more misinformation, fear, uncertainty and doubt.

Greg

benzmodz

You know I really hate this but I had my bad experience with Phenol. Toluene just make your skin dry.

I mixed the two up .... my bad.

Kev04C320

Phenol has an -OH where as Toluene has a methyl group, different stuff.

Mad TKD

E55AMG99 is right on.

I have used it many times in my other car with mixed results. I had to also use another additive(marvels oil I think) with it for lubrication. At 32-34psi i felt safer using 110 octane which i could get at the pump for 3.49 gal before gas went up. Toulene has gone up quite a bit in price, not only do racers like it to boost octane but so do people that make meth!!!

If you really break the price down in most cases it is cheaper to mix unleaded race fuel with your pump gas in my experience.

my 2psi

ClayJ

Marvel Mystery Oil?

Mad TKD

yes ClayJ thats it

amgdriven

Almost all "over the counter" octane boosters contain lubricants.
Better safe than sorry.Add a little transmission fluid...and you have the cleaner as well.

E55AMG99

Why do you think you need to lubricate anything in the intake, combustion chamber or exhaust pipe?

Mad TKD

It was for the fuel pumps,lines, injectors. Not after that.

Bernanke

well obviously if you are handling it without checmical gloves u are a retard. but i've used it for years and had amazing results.

its 114 octane race gas. One full gallon per tank can increase octane roughly 3 full numbers (91-94, 93-96) and if you use half tank of gass the concentrations increase as well. You can use up to 30-40% mixture of toluene in gas and bee safe, i've ran 75% once just to see what it would do and no harm was done at all, ran like a bat out of hell but i dont recommend that long term.

Yes it is true octane booster cannot MAKE more power than your ECU is tuned for HOWEVER not a single person out there has there car runnin at 100% its just not possible. Gasoline quality is constantly changing and in a time of gas shortage such as now they are not always 100% accurate. in addition your ECU is constantly pulling cam timing to compensate for different qualities of gas. What toluene does is allow your ECU to run at its true 100% potential and smoothens out the entire powerband and frees up some LOST HP (not make more HP then it was designed it make). It does that by eliminating ping/knock allowing the ECU to run at its max. if that makes any sense.

just thought u guys might start trying it.