2003 E55 ECU flash...another mad owner!
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Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 293
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From: Las Vegas..ever heard of it?
2021 G63, 2021 RS6, 2021 Ducati Panigale SP, 2022 Ford F450
2003 E55 ECU flash...another mad owner!
I went into Fletcher Jones MBZ here in Las Vegas today for an oil change. I decided I'd stay around and wait for the car. They came to me and said "we need to do some warranty work to the car". They did a carrier bolt and an air injection relay.
When I was leaving the service advisor said they reflashed the ECU, at that moment I got a chill down my spine.
Sure enough...i drove the car and its WAY down on power. I call up the advisor and told him my car is running like DOG S*%T. I also told him that on the MB Forum there were many people unhappy with the flash. He didn't know anybody unhappy with their work.
So needless to say..when i told him it was running like crap he said to bring it back in and he'll load the old program back in.
We'll see what happens on monday.
hope all goes well.
later,
dave
When I was leaving the service advisor said they reflashed the ECU, at that moment I got a chill down my spine.
Sure enough...i drove the car and its WAY down on power. I call up the advisor and told him my car is running like DOG S*%T. I also told him that on the MB Forum there were many people unhappy with the flash. He didn't know anybody unhappy with their work.
So needless to say..when i told him it was running like crap he said to bring it back in and he'll load the old program back in.
We'll see what happens on monday.
hope all goes well.
later,
dave
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Joined: Jun 2006
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'03 E55, Range Rover Sport Supercharged, Ducati 748R
sorry to hear that. if your dealer does in fact reflash your ecu to pre recall status please post that up as it will be a precedent and possible evidence to help with our situations. we all know it CAN be done regardless of the fact that mb says it can't.
good luck and keep us posted!!!
good luck and keep us posted!!!
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2006
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'11/E63-Former car: '05 RT4 E55, Sprintbooster, Phenolic Spacers, RT IC /Secondary HE & BMC Filters
any idea which Merc tuners (if any) will resend code (flash) free of charge if dealer reflashes their program? heard some are more helpful than others.
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Joined: Nov 2004
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From: Boston
'01 E55
Describe "running like dog ****" please. Rough idle?? No power?? Both??
I work at a dealership and have NEVER heard about re-flashing the ECU to pre-recall status. Once a control module is flashed, it's flashed. There's no reversing it....at least a program isn't available to technicians or the dealership to install the old software.
I work at a dealership and have NEVER heard about re-flashing the ECU to pre-recall status. Once a control module is flashed, it's flashed. There's no reversing it....at least a program isn't available to technicians or the dealership to install the old software.
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From: Long Island & Hong Kong
20+ to list......
Glassjaw is right, your dealership is BS'ing you. The only kind of ECUs that can be reflashed back to the old setting are the stand alone ones, ie AEM EMS, Link, Motec, etc.. And to flash those back to old settings is load your previous tuned and saved file from PC back to them. Since you said your car drives like a pig after the MB recall flash, why not send it to one of the tuners to get a flash for more power? Just my 0.02.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 411
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2003 E55 K1
Unfortunately, I have to agree with above comment. My dealer looked at me like I had two heads when I requested they reload previous software. He agreed the software was the problem, then said my problem was between me and MB. He then showed me three Disks he just received in the mail and said, "Whatever MB sends me I have to use. I have nothing else, sorry."
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,420
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From: Boston
'01 E55
I've been hearing a lot about losing power and general poor engine performance after the flash on this website. I have heard nothing while working at the dealership and this campaign has been out for a while. Now I'm extremely curious. On Monday I'm going to ask our shop foreman if he's heard anything about this and get his 2 cents on it. He used to work for MB factory in the Technical Assistance Center so he's got a lot of good connections to the people involving these sort of things. I'll see if I can get some good info for you guys...
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Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Northern VA
SL 500
Originally Posted by 2MANYCARS
why not send it to one of the tuners to get a flash for more power? Just my 0.02.
Mercedes Benz should attempt to explain and not side-step this obvious blunder.
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From: Las Vegas..ever heard of it?
2021 G63, 2021 RS6, 2021 Ducati Panigale SP, 2022 Ford F450
i just gt my car back from the dealer and it still runs the same. It used to have a lot more torque and it used to spin the tires on the freeway at 65mph. It doesn't do it anymore. My service tech said, "the tech didn't program the ECU with the correct AMG program" He mentioned that it had a non AMG program. Which makes no sense to me. I drove the dog **** out of it and its still soft. So I guess I'll keep going up there and raising hell until i get my car to run like it used to.
I will say one more time...he did say he reinstalled the old program. I do not think it was reinstalled. It runs soft and im mad as hell right now. I've been dealing with this all day and its got me twisted up.
I'm sorry if this post makes no sense to anyone because i feel like i'm rambling on.
later,
dave
PS..i need a nap after this day...
I will say one more time...he did say he reinstalled the old program. I do not think it was reinstalled. It runs soft and im mad as hell right now. I've been dealing with this all day and its got me twisted up.
I'm sorry if this post makes no sense to anyone because i feel like i'm rambling on.
later,
dave
PS..i need a nap after this day...
Super Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 791
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From: Monroe, Louisiana
SL 65 AMG and E63s AMG
i agree with loss of power with the "upgrade, reflash" IT TAKES TORQUE OUT. I hate it. I want my E55 to run like it did before the reflash......Granted the car maybe as quick as it was but it is a different less aggressive feel. I will keep on harping on this subject until MB does something about it. I AM PIZZED OFF. Maybe if we keep raising cain they'll back off..
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
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From: San Diego
2015 S212
I tried punching mine at 65 and no spin or even close to letting loose.
It does seem to be an issue with the 03 - 04s, so I wonder what the heck is going on?? We may need to do some side by side dynos to figure out what the real affected cars are. My assumption is that all our cars run the same updated software (mine had it from the get go), so maybe something else is different?? Maybe mine was always slower, and I just wouldn't "see" a drop, since they didn't flash it while I had it? I dunno, but a dyno would show. I say we dyno my car, a new one that needed the flash, an old one that got the flash, and an old one that has NOT had it, yet. We may have the same peaks (maybe) but maybe the curves have a different look?
It does seem to be an issue with the 03 - 04s, so I wonder what the heck is going on?? We may need to do some side by side dynos to figure out what the real affected cars are. My assumption is that all our cars run the same updated software (mine had it from the get go), so maybe something else is different?? Maybe mine was always slower, and I just wouldn't "see" a drop, since they didn't flash it while I had it? I dunno, but a dyno would show. I say we dyno my car, a new one that needed the flash, an old one that got the flash, and an old one that has NOT had it, yet. We may have the same peaks (maybe) but maybe the curves have a different look?
Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 212
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From: Toronto , Canada
2018 E63S wagon, 2016 GLE350d, GLE450 on order
i noticed a drop in power also and i plan to dyno my car shortly, unfortunately i did not do a dyno run before the re-flash. i was told the only way to "get rid" of the re-flash was to completely change the ECU with a new one from europe or one from a wrecked car pre re-flash.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
Originally Posted by jparch
i noticed a drop in power also and i plan to dyno my car shortly, unfortunately i did not do a dyno run before the re-flash. i was told the only way to "get rid" of the re-flash was to completely change the ECU with a new one from europe or one from a wrecked car pre re-flash.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: Las Vegas..ever heard of it?
2021 G63, 2021 RS6, 2021 Ducati Panigale SP, 2022 Ford F450
I've noticed a number of things going on.
1st...the traction control now lets the car spin the tires 3-4 FULL revolutions BEFORE it engages. Before it would kill the car with maybe 1-2 revolutions. It used to be more agressive with the pulling of spark and fuel. It seems like its easier to get it out of the hole.
2nd...the shift point seems higher then before. It now spins up to 68-6900rpms in 2nd and 3rd. I actually ran into the rev limiter when i was driving the dog **** out of it.
3rd...the car is very soft out of the hole. It used to be really jerky with 1/4 throttle take offs. Not so much anymore.
4th...Mid range and upper end HP and torque is soft. It really feels like 2-3 degrees or maybe more have been pulled throughout the RPM range.
5th...During 4th to 2nd gear kick downs is softened, its not as violent and its not as rapid.
Overall..i think 2003 and 2004 PRE FLASHED Ecu car will stomp a mudhole in 2005 and 2006. The reason I say this is because my friend that helped me find this car, and used to be on this forum until he traded in his 2005 E55 for a different car, I drove his 2005 many times before I bought mine and his always felt soft. His car was fast..but it didn't have the "hard edge" mine DID.
I don't know...maybe I'll do the Kleemann K4 upgrade sooner than I thought.
later,
dave
1st...the traction control now lets the car spin the tires 3-4 FULL revolutions BEFORE it engages. Before it would kill the car with maybe 1-2 revolutions. It used to be more agressive with the pulling of spark and fuel. It seems like its easier to get it out of the hole.
2nd...the shift point seems higher then before. It now spins up to 68-6900rpms in 2nd and 3rd. I actually ran into the rev limiter when i was driving the dog **** out of it.
3rd...the car is very soft out of the hole. It used to be really jerky with 1/4 throttle take offs. Not so much anymore.
4th...Mid range and upper end HP and torque is soft. It really feels like 2-3 degrees or maybe more have been pulled throughout the RPM range.
5th...During 4th to 2nd gear kick downs is softened, its not as violent and its not as rapid.
Overall..i think 2003 and 2004 PRE FLASHED Ecu car will stomp a mudhole in 2005 and 2006. The reason I say this is because my friend that helped me find this car, and used to be on this forum until he traded in his 2005 E55 for a different car, I drove his 2005 many times before I bought mine and his always felt soft. His car was fast..but it didn't have the "hard edge" mine DID.
I don't know...maybe I'll do the Kleemann K4 upgrade sooner than I thought.
later,
dave
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 293
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From: Las Vegas..ever heard of it?
2021 G63, 2021 RS6, 2021 Ducati Panigale SP, 2022 Ford F450
Jangy,
The roads in Las Vegas are slippery. My car would flicker the ESP light with 4th to 2nd gear kickdowns.
I have a car that makes 1180rwhp and I spin the tires at 165mph. I should note that it'll spin the tires like that at 980rwhp. I've never run full boost on the street. I've "only" taken it ~35psi which is ~1000-1050rwhp.
Come on...i thought everyone spun the tires at 65mph.
The roads in Las Vegas are slippery. My car would flicker the ESP light with 4th to 2nd gear kickdowns.
I have a car that makes 1180rwhp and I spin the tires at 165mph. I should note that it'll spin the tires like that at 980rwhp. I've never run full boost on the street. I've "only" taken it ~35psi which is ~1000-1050rwhp.
Come on...i thought everyone spun the tires at 65mph.
Originally Posted by jangy
I tried punching mine at 65 and no spin or even close to letting loose.
It does seem to be an issue with the 03 - 04s, so I wonder what the heck is going on?? We may need to do some side by side dynos to figure out what the real affected cars are. My assumption is that all our cars run the same updated software (mine had it from the get go), so maybe something else is different?? Maybe mine was always slower, and I just wouldn't "see" a drop, since they didn't flash it while I had it? I dunno, but a dyno would show. I say we dyno my car, a new one that needed the flash, an old one that got the flash, and an old one that has NOT had it, yet. We may have the same peaks (maybe) but maybe the curves have a different look?
It does seem to be an issue with the 03 - 04s, so I wonder what the heck is going on?? We may need to do some side by side dynos to figure out what the real affected cars are. My assumption is that all our cars run the same updated software (mine had it from the get go), so maybe something else is different?? Maybe mine was always slower, and I just wouldn't "see" a drop, since they didn't flash it while I had it? I dunno, but a dyno would show. I say we dyno my car, a new one that needed the flash, an old one that got the flash, and an old one that has NOT had it, yet. We may have the same peaks (maybe) but maybe the curves have a different look?
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 198
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From: Orange County,New York
I read this post and the first thought I had was, this is one group of paranoid guys, then I started to think about it, if true why would MB actively seek and flag modified cars. Then it hit me, at 54 my brain doesn’t work as fast as it use too, it’s a warranty issue, exceed the HP/ torque rating of the vehicle and components like engines and transmissions start to wear and fail prematurely, an added cost the MB $$$$$$$$
As a transmission tech and shop owner I am always looking for technical information which would aid me in diagnosing my customers’ drivability complaints, in doing so I found this. A MB training technical document.
Flashing and Software Calibration Number ( SCN)
“SCN coding identifies control unit software and coding conforming to vehicle”
SCN is required
* After flashing Fuel control unit (ME) or Electronic transmission controller *
After replacement of ME or ETC
Required by law, can be find if not done
Vehicle may not function correctly if not preformed
* Prevents after market performance enchantments*
In Future additional control modules will require SCN coding
They are also scanning for transmission control module performance enchantments
,
As a transmission tech and shop owner I am always looking for technical information which would aid me in diagnosing my customers’ drivability complaints, in doing so I found this. A MB training technical document.
Flashing and Software Calibration Number ( SCN)
“SCN coding identifies control unit software and coding conforming to vehicle”
SCN is required
* After flashing Fuel control unit (ME) or Electronic transmission controller *
After replacement of ME or ETC
Required by law, can be find if not done
Vehicle may not function correctly if not preformed
* Prevents after market performance enchantments*
In Future additional control modules will require SCN coding
They are also scanning for transmission control module performance enchantments
,
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,420
Likes: 9
From: Boston
'01 E55
Originally Posted by DKM
i just gt my car back from the dealer and it still runs the same. It used to have a lot more torque and it used to spin the tires on the freeway at 65mph. It doesn't do it anymore. My service tech said, "the tech didn't program the ECU with the correct AMG program" He mentioned that it had a non AMG program. Which makes no sense to me. I drove the dog **** out of it and its still soft. So I guess I'll keep going up there and raising hell until i get my car to run like it used to.
I will say one more time...he did say he reinstalled the old program. I do not think it was reinstalled. It runs soft and im mad as hell right now. I've been dealing with this all day and its got me twisted up.
I'm sorry if this post makes no sense to anyone because i feel like i'm rambling on.
later,
dave
PS..i need a nap after this day...
I will say one more time...he did say he reinstalled the old program. I do not think it was reinstalled. It runs soft and im mad as hell right now. I've been dealing with this all day and its got me twisted up.
I'm sorry if this post makes no sense to anyone because i feel like i'm rambling on.
later,
dave
PS..i need a nap after this day...
Either your service advisor is full of **** or he doesn't know what he's talking about....possibly both!! The moron pulls the old, "the tech didn't install the right program. It was his fault!!!" That's complete BS, there is only one program and one flash. There is no seperate AMG flash.
And about installing the old software. That's impossible.
My suggestion, kick your advisor in the ***** and get somebody new.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 293
Likes: 3
From: Las Vegas..ever heard of it?
2021 G63, 2021 RS6, 2021 Ducati Panigale SP, 2022 Ford F450
No, you're completely right. First off he's full of ****. I would've felt A LOT better had he said, "Dave..theres nothing i can do for you..deal with it!". He had me run around and wasted my time. I wasted the entire day monkeyfu&$ing with this car.
It is what it is..its done and over with. They're a POS and there's nothing I can do. Plain and simple.
dkm
It is what it is..its done and over with. They're a POS and there's nothing I can do. Plain and simple.
dkm
Originally Posted by Glassjaw
Either your service advisor is full of **** or he doesn't know what he's talking about....possibly both!! The moron pulls the old, "the tech didn't install the right program. It was his fault!!!" That's complete BS, there is only one program and one flash. There is no seperate AMG flash.
And about installing the old software. That's impossible.
My suggestion, kick your advisor in the ***** and get somebody new.
And about installing the old software. That's impossible.
My suggestion, kick your advisor in the ***** and get somebody new.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
Originally Posted by DKM
I've noticed a number of things going on.
1st...the traction control now lets the car spin the tires 3-4 FULL revolutions BEFORE it engages. Before it would kill the car with maybe 1-2 revolutions. It used to be more agressive with the pulling of spark and fuel. It seems like its easier to get it out of the hole.
2nd...the shift point seems higher then before. It now spins up to 68-6900rpms in 2nd and 3rd. I actually ran into the rev limiter when i was driving the dog **** out of it.
3rd...the car is very soft out of the hole. It used to be really jerky with 1/4 throttle take offs. Not so much anymore.
4th...Mid range and upper end HP and torque is soft. It really feels like 2-3 degrees or maybe more have been pulled throughout the RPM range.
5th...During 4th to 2nd gear kick downs is softened, its not as violent and its not as rapid.
Overall..i think 2003 and 2004 PRE FLASHED Ecu car will stomp a mudhole in 2005 and 2006. The reason I say this is because my friend that helped me find this car, and used to be on this forum until he traded in his 2005 E55 for a different car, I drove his 2005 many times before I bought mine and his always felt soft. His car was fast..but it didn't have the "hard edge" mine DID.
I don't know...maybe I'll do the Kleemann K4 upgrade sooner than I thought.
later,
dave
1st...the traction control now lets the car spin the tires 3-4 FULL revolutions BEFORE it engages. Before it would kill the car with maybe 1-2 revolutions. It used to be more agressive with the pulling of spark and fuel. It seems like its easier to get it out of the hole.
2nd...the shift point seems higher then before. It now spins up to 68-6900rpms in 2nd and 3rd. I actually ran into the rev limiter when i was driving the dog **** out of it.
3rd...the car is very soft out of the hole. It used to be really jerky with 1/4 throttle take offs. Not so much anymore.
4th...Mid range and upper end HP and torque is soft. It really feels like 2-3 degrees or maybe more have been pulled throughout the RPM range.
5th...During 4th to 2nd gear kick downs is softened, its not as violent and its not as rapid.
Overall..i think 2003 and 2004 PRE FLASHED Ecu car will stomp a mudhole in 2005 and 2006. The reason I say this is because my friend that helped me find this car, and used to be on this forum until he traded in his 2005 E55 for a different car, I drove his 2005 many times before I bought mine and his always felt soft. His car was fast..but it didn't have the "hard edge" mine DID.
I don't know...maybe I'll do the Kleemann K4 upgrade sooner than I thought.
later,
dave
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 293
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From: Las Vegas..ever heard of it?
2021 G63, 2021 RS6, 2021 Ducati Panigale SP, 2022 Ford F450
I don't know if I fully understand the last sentence. Please explain...
dave
dave
Originally Posted by jangy
Keep in mind that we were under the impression that the "fastest" cars are the older ones. I dunno if that has anything to do with the current concerns, but i think these problems are much more dramatic.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
Sorry for the confusion, but here's what I kind of meant. As I see it, the difference between a stock '03 and stock '06 is "minor". That means that they are basically both fast, but that some (seems you included) would say that the '03 felt faster. On the other hand, the problem that some of the flash people are complaining about sounds like it makes a HUGE difference in relation to the previously mentioned comparison. That's all. Mine is not affected by the flash, so I can't say for sure, but many members have commented on how their ride doesn't even want to spin the tires. That is just not right (for an E55K). Hope that makes some logic.
Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
From: Cary, IL
2003 CL55 Kompressor Horizon Blue Metallic
Well ... I'm completely convinced now that something is up.
I normally don't attempt "top fuel" burn-outs in my CL55, but before the recall flash they could be done - easily with ESP off. Heck, from a roll-on even.
Lately, what has been going on in my head is that the car didn't seem as snappy in first, but seemed to pull fine in second and third. This is post recall flash. I've suspected it wasn't as strong after the flash, but I kinda chalked up this to humid weather (but in hindsight my analysis doesn't make sense).
So anyway ... This evening, I let my brother-in-law drive the car with some friends who were wondering about the car. I put ESP off for him and then went on a rant about "go ahead and light up the tires, but don't get carried away because with the tall gearing I think a guy can break something when it grabs blah blah blah".
He comes back after the drive with - I can't get the tires to break loose.
So we take it out and sure enough, I can get the tires to slip a little going up through first but the "top fuel burn off with ESP off from a roll" is a thing of the past. Fuel, timing, or both feels missing.
I believe that there is something going on that is similar to the cut-off safety feature some cars have when the brake and throttle are applied at the same time. It really feels that the car is predicting traction problems "faster", almost like it is pulling the timing back less but the activation of the pull back is more aggressive.
This is a bummer ... I have an early production 2003 CL55 that was sold late, I've never been able to get dyno mode active. I have also always felt that these cars are fastest on the street in manual mode with ESP off and just a touch of wheel spin. Maybe I should just toast my ESP fuse.
Lately, what has been going on in my head is that the car didn't seem as snappy in first, but seemed to pull fine in second and third. This is post recall flash. I've suspected it wasn't as strong after the flash, but I kinda chalked up this to humid weather (but in hindsight my analysis doesn't make sense).
So anyway ... This evening, I let my brother-in-law drive the car with some friends who were wondering about the car. I put ESP off for him and then went on a rant about "go ahead and light up the tires, but don't get carried away because with the tall gearing I think a guy can break something when it grabs blah blah blah".
He comes back after the drive with - I can't get the tires to break loose.
So we take it out and sure enough, I can get the tires to slip a little going up through first but the "top fuel burn off with ESP off from a roll" is a thing of the past. Fuel, timing, or both feels missing.
I believe that there is something going on that is similar to the cut-off safety feature some cars have when the brake and throttle are applied at the same time. It really feels that the car is predicting traction problems "faster", almost like it is pulling the timing back less but the activation of the pull back is more aggressive.
This is a bummer ... I have an early production 2003 CL55 that was sold late, I've never been able to get dyno mode active. I have also always felt that these cars are fastest on the street in manual mode with ESP off and just a touch of wheel spin. Maybe I should just toast my ESP fuse.
Last edited by mclarenm8d; Aug 5, 2006 at 12:01 AM.
