Custom S/Steel equal length shorty headers anyone?
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From: London, UK
No longer stock '06 E55, A3 3.2 Quattro, GLE 400d, R107 280SL, Golf Polo
Custom S/Steel equal length shorty headers anyone?
Well toying with getting some specilaist shop here in UK to put together a shorty header in stainless steel similar to Evosport BUT ...
1 100% equal length for all tubes - it may need to be 2 into 1 type or a 4 into 1 type depending on how they can make it fit.
2 Slightly larger diameter pipes...
3 Will be clean swap of OEM headers - no mods required. (as per Evo)
I have asked 3 specialist shops and see what they come back with ...
EDIT : Sorry victor sjust saw you were going to work on a long pipe header for your 70mm ss exhaust system. Anyhow I think this project - if it gets off the ground - might be a usefull to your cause...!
1 100% equal length for all tubes - it may need to be 2 into 1 type or a 4 into 1 type depending on how they can make it fit.
2 Slightly larger diameter pipes...
3 Will be clean swap of OEM headers - no mods required. (as per Evo)
I have asked 3 specialist shops and see what they come back with ...
EDIT : Sorry victor sjust saw you were going to work on a long pipe header for your 70mm ss exhaust system. Anyhow I think this project - if it gets off the ground - might be a usefull to your cause...!
Last edited by stevebez; Aug 16, 2006 at 04:19 AM.
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From: Chicago
You should also ask for a stainless steel heat shield that can be bolted on each header- that or an ATP heat shield that is safety wired on.
http://www.atpwrap.com/pro_race.htm
I'm sure you'll find something similar in the Carbon Fibre Valley...
http://www.atpwrap.com/pro_race.htm
I'm sure you'll find something similar in the Carbon Fibre Valley...
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CLK63 Black, E350 Wagon, Supercharged Denali, Lotus Elise, Tesla Model 3 Dual-Motor.
The 4 into 2 into 1 style headers are called Tri-Y headers.
Tri-Y headers secondary main benefit besides exhaust flow is they make more torque then a 4 into1.
Tri-Y headers secondary main benefit besides exhaust flow is they make more torque then a 4 into1.
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From: Richmond Hill, Ontario
2003 E55 AMG
Hey Steve,
No problem.. The more research is done and the more combinations that are tried, the easier it is to come to a decision on what is the best combo!!
Glad to see you are taking this on. Get some preliminary pricing and let's see what it would take to make a set. I'm going to do the same.. The main difference here is that your shorty design will be perfect for people who dont want to lose emissions compliance. I am going for straight power so I want to make a long tube design.
Good luck!!
No problem.. The more research is done and the more combinations that are tried, the easier it is to come to a decision on what is the best combo!!
Glad to see you are taking this on. Get some preliminary pricing and let's see what it would take to make a set. I'm going to do the same.. The main difference here is that your shorty design will be perfect for people who dont want to lose emissions compliance. I am going for straight power so I want to make a long tube design.
Good luck!!
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'03 E55, Range Rover Sport Supercharged, Ducati 748R
i'm also in the middle of a equal length tube header project. we're attempting long tube that will require removal or relocation of the primary cats. as mentioned, a tri y system does tend to create more torque in the low/mid range when compared to a 4 into 1 system. for most street applications that would be the more rewarding set up but after careful consideration i decided against tri y because i felt these cars don't need to gain a little extra torque over a 4 into 1 at the sacrifice of upper rpm hp (we all know these cars have plenty of torque 
).
it's cool that we're all doing this but i doubt we'll see much of a difference in hp gains between each style. considering evosport, renntech, kleeman, and supersprint all see and claim approximately the same gains i think we're probably just reinventing a wheel that's already been reinvented several times. it's more fun this way though not to mention less expensive!
i'm having a few things done and will be heading out of vacation shorty so i'll update around the end of the month.
).it's cool that we're all doing this but i doubt we'll see much of a difference in hp gains between each style. considering evosport, renntech, kleeman, and supersprint all see and claim approximately the same gains i think we're probably just reinventing a wheel that's already been reinvented several times. it's more fun this way though not to mention less expensive!
i'm having a few things done and will be heading out of vacation shorty so i'll update around the end of the month.
Last edited by chiromikey; Aug 16, 2006 at 12:23 PM.
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Originally Posted by chiromikey
it's cool that we're all doing this but i doubt we'll see much of a difference in hp gains between each style. considering evosport, renntech, kleeman, and supersprint all see and claim approximately the same gains i think we're probably just reinventing a wheel that's already been reinvented several times.
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From: Southern California
S600TT, R350
1 100% equal length for all tubes - it may need to be 2 into 1 type or a 4 into 1 type depending on how they can make it fit.
Slightly larger diameter pipes...
I went through all these options two years ago, when designing evosport headers.
Good Luck!
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From: London, UK
No longer stock '06 E55, A3 3.2 Quattro, GLE 400d, R107 280SL, Golf Polo
I think losing some torque low down (perish the thought I know) but gaining Hp on top is probably what the E55 needs...
This may help with launches and less power ending up in smoke.
My idea in staying with a shorty header is to have mods that can be swapped back to OEM by simple refit.
Have to say of the three shops I emailed 0 have come back to me ...
great start ...
This may help with launches and less power ending up in smoke.
My idea in staying with a shorty header is to have mods that can be swapped back to OEM by simple refit.
Have to say of the three shops I emailed 0 have come back to me ...
great start ...
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Thread Starter
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From: London, UK
No longer stock '06 E55, A3 3.2 Quattro, GLE 400d, R107 280SL, Golf Polo
First reply is in ... its from these guys ....
Quicksilverexhausts, their work looks awesome from this page ... will have to see about pricing ... have no clue yet.
They have a system for the SL55 available so maybe a smal tweak of that design could see us with some decent shorty headers.
http://www.racecar.co.uk/quicksilverferrariusa/
Will see how things go ...
Quicksilverexhausts, their work looks awesome from this page ... will have to see about pricing ... have no clue yet.
They have a system for the SL55 available so maybe a smal tweak of that design could see us with some decent shorty headers.
http://www.racecar.co.uk/quicksilverferrariusa/
Will see how things go ...
Thread Starter
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From: London, UK
No longer stock '06 E55, A3 3.2 Quattro, GLE 400d, R107 280SL, Golf Polo
Great news ... !!!!
These guys have come back again and have said as follows ...
1 set of headers ballpark £1800/set (roughly $3400)
10 x set of headers ballpark £900/set ($1700 excl shipping from UK).
Not sure about the VAT - but its 17.5% here ... exports should be exempt.
I think $1700 for a set of custom, equal length SS shorty headers into proper collector, with build quality as good as seen on the link is a great price.
Have a pic of the SL55 rear section (no headers) just rear tubes and boxes if anyone wants a pic please PM me and I will forward pic - its to big to upload here ...
BTW : how do you guys get these massive pictures on the site when I cannot get a damn thumbnail size up ?
We need 10 takers ... I will sacrifice my car for a week for the mock up / jig ...
NOTE: This will be a direct swap out of stock OEM header with no need to modify existing exhaust in any way at all. The tube diameter is being discussed. Its either 1 3/4 or 1 5/8. Your input here will be very valuable.
Put names down here please... no commitment yet just interest so we can see if this is a go or not ... if we get more than 10 we can get them for less I am sure.
1. Stevebez
1 set of headers ballpark £1800/set (roughly $3400)
10 x set of headers ballpark £900/set ($1700 excl shipping from UK).
Not sure about the VAT - but its 17.5% here ... exports should be exempt.I think $1700 for a set of custom, equal length SS shorty headers into proper collector, with build quality as good as seen on the link is a great price.
Have a pic of the SL55 rear section (no headers) just rear tubes and boxes if anyone wants a pic please PM me and I will forward pic - its to big to upload here ...
BTW : how do you guys get these massive pictures on the site when I cannot get a damn thumbnail size up ?
We need 10 takers ... I will sacrifice my car for a week for the mock up / jig ...
NOTE: This will be a direct swap out of stock OEM header with no need to modify existing exhaust in any way at all. The tube diameter is being discussed. Its either 1 3/4 or 1 5/8. Your input here will be very valuable.
Put names down here please... no commitment yet just interest so we can see if this is a go or not ... if we get more than 10 we can get them for less I am sure.
1. Stevebez
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Originally Posted by stevebez
The tube diameter is being discussed. Its either 1 3/4 or 1 5/8. Your input here will be very valuable.
If the intent is to maximize HP and trap speed for modified cars, then the 1-3/4" pipes are the better choice. They will support 600+ crank HP. There may be a small torque penalty down low, but probably not too noticeable.
For the 1-5/8" pipes, I would use a 2-3/4" collector. For the 1-3/4" pipes, I would use a 3" collector.
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From: Richmond Hill, Ontario
2003 E55 AMG
Steve,
That's a great price!! If I wasn't already committed, I would just jump in with you on this. If it should fall apart, you can put my name down too.
I agree with Vadim though.. There isnt any room in that space to do equal length SHORTY headers.. The Evosport headers barely fit in there and on driver's side where the steering rack is you will have a very hard time.
This is the primary reason I am doing the long tubes. Its a little easier to get them to fit.
Best of luck and take lots of pics!
That's a great price!! If I wasn't already committed, I would just jump in with you on this. If it should fall apart, you can put my name down too.
I agree with Vadim though.. There isnt any room in that space to do equal length SHORTY headers.. The Evosport headers barely fit in there and on driver's side where the steering rack is you will have a very hard time.
This is the primary reason I am doing the long tubes. Its a little easier to get them to fit.
Best of luck and take lots of pics!
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From: London, UK
No longer stock '06 E55, A3 3.2 Quattro, GLE 400d, R107 280SL, Golf Polo
OK well not an overwhelming response -
If we dont get 10 "interested" parties - it aint gonna happen ... at least not at the $1700 price point they suggested for 10 units.
Up to you guys ... maybe reinventing the wheel here, but seems there is some HP on the table if the Evo design can be improved a little... and we need to see if these guys can do more with the space.
The other issue is the LHD vs RHD layouts of UK vs US models. The mock up may need to be done so that the headers fit both left and right hand drive. This may take more time ...
Grumps thanks for your valuable input, will pass this along.
So going to tell them the idea fo a 1 5/8ths into a 2 3/4 setup and see what they think. This header design focusing on effiiciency and performance for mildly modded and stock cars.
Victors unit may be a more radical unit for higher HP cars.
I will try and take a drive out to these guys and let them inspect the space and the idea and see if they can do what we need ... if they go pale and get a dazzed look about them then we know we are not going to get anywhere fast and this is a non starter - if they smile and get all gee'd up - cool.
The build is the easy part but the pattern may take some time to evolve.
Conditional list so far:
1. Stevebez
2. Mach5
3. Vrus (depending on circumstances)
7 to go - before we are good to go...!!!!
If we dont get 10 "interested" parties - it aint gonna happen ... at least not at the $1700 price point they suggested for 10 units.
Up to you guys ... maybe reinventing the wheel here, but seems there is some HP on the table if the Evo design can be improved a little... and we need to see if these guys can do more with the space.
The other issue is the LHD vs RHD layouts of UK vs US models. The mock up may need to be done so that the headers fit both left and right hand drive. This may take more time ...
Grumps thanks for your valuable input, will pass this along.
So going to tell them the idea fo a 1 5/8ths into a 2 3/4 setup and see what they think. This header design focusing on effiiciency and performance for mildly modded and stock cars.
Victors unit may be a more radical unit for higher HP cars.
I will try and take a drive out to these guys and let them inspect the space and the idea and see if they can do what we need ... if they go pale and get a dazzed look about them then we know we are not going to get anywhere fast and this is a non starter - if they smile and get all gee'd up - cool.
The build is the easy part but the pattern may take some time to evolve.
Conditional list so far:
1. Stevebez
2. Mach5
3. Vrus (depending on circumstances)
7 to go - before we are good to go...!!!!
Last edited by stevebez; Aug 22, 2006 at 04:10 AM.
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From: London, UK
No longer stock '06 E55, A3 3.2 Quattro, GLE 400d, R107 280SL, Golf Polo
OK more news from Quicksilver...
They say they can do this but say the most cost effective would be to use a template like the Evo header as a starting point, develop that version and spread its cost over the batch...
I am less impressed with this method as Vrus found out from the renntech airbox idea...
At this stage I think I would settle for the Evosport header in SS and 1 5/8 primaries and be done with it....
I suppose we could auction off the Evo's at the end to reduce the costs ...
O boy it is never easy is it ...
Any thots welcome ...
They say they can do this but say the most cost effective would be to use a template like the Evo header as a starting point, develop that version and spread its cost over the batch...
I am less impressed with this method as Vrus found out from the renntech airbox idea...
At this stage I think I would settle for the Evosport header in SS and 1 5/8 primaries and be done with it....
I suppose we could auction off the Evo's at the end to reduce the costs ...
O boy it is never easy is it ...
Any thots welcome ...
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From: City with Tall buildings!
C43/55,2k11 Volvo S60 T6AWD,2k Audi B5 S4,95 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD 500+awhp
For a stock car, the 1-5/8" pipes will work just fine, and would be the better choice. A 1-5/8" pipe will easily support 500 crank HP. For a modified car that's pushing 600 HP, but is still primarily a daily driver with an occasional WOT blast and/or 1/4-mile run, the 1-5/8" pipe will work OK. There may be a small HP penalty (15-20) in the upper RPM range.
If the intent is to maximize HP and trap speed for modified cars, then the 1-3/4" pipes are the better choice. They will support 600+ crank HP. There may be a small torque penalty down low, but probably not too noticeable.
For the 1-5/8" pipes, I would use a 2-3/4" collector. For the 1-3/4" pipes, I would use a 3" collector.
If the intent is to maximize HP and trap speed for modified cars, then the 1-3/4" pipes are the better choice. They will support 600+ crank HP. There may be a small torque penalty down low, but probably not too noticeable.
For the 1-5/8" pipes, I would use a 2-3/4" collector. For the 1-3/4" pipes, I would use a 3" collector.
Kleeman Collector is 2.6 "(66.06mm) and should help with the TQ loss using this size collector vs 2.75" NO?. stck runners are 1.4". Stck collector is 1.6"(41.48mm).
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From: City with Tall buildings!
C43/55,2k11 Volvo S60 T6AWD,2k Audi B5 S4,95 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD 500+awhp
