E55 vs E63 - MBUSA Comments
09-12-2006, 10:47 PM
#1
E55 vs E63 - MBUSA Comments
Emailed AMG product manager about my concerns over E63 performance as I have an E63 wagon ordered to replace 03 E55 coming off lease.
Looks like MBUSA will post some comparisons on the AMG private lounge site.
Here are excerpts from MBUSA response
"Like you, we were also interested in head-to-head comparisons of the cars,
both under acceleration, as well as on the track where other performance
characteristics (braking, handling, lateral acceleration) could be
compared.
Basically, the E63 AMG is a much smoother and more linear performer,. For
acceleration, this means that the 0-60 mph times are more consistent and
easily achieved, whereas with the E55 AMG Kompressor, the torque being
available at a much lower engine speed, frequently causing wheelspin (and
ESP / ASR actuation) under hard acceleration. Our tests yielded more
consistent results for the E63 AMG, although in some cases the E55 AMG
delivered a lower elapsed time at the dragstrip.
On the road course racing track we used, the advantage of the E63 AMG was
much greater. On the same day under identical conditions, out pro driver
lapped the 1.48 mile track at 3-4 seconds quicker in the E63 AMG
consistently. This can be attributed to the superior compound brakes,
revised suspension, 7 speed AMG Speedshift automatic with shift paddles as
well as the lower weight of the engine (-47 lb) over the front axle.
Further, our drivers found the E63 AMG much smoother, more progressive and
easier to drive fast.
We plan to show information and other cool stuff from our testing on
Mercedes-amg.com/privatelounge very soon so that you can see the E63 AMG
results for yourself."
Put my E63 order on hold pending release of comparison data.
Looks like MBUSA will post some comparisons on the AMG private lounge site.
Here are excerpts from MBUSA response
"Like you, we were also interested in head-to-head comparisons of the cars,
both under acceleration, as well as on the track where other performance
characteristics (braking, handling, lateral acceleration) could be
compared.
Basically, the E63 AMG is a much smoother and more linear performer,. For
acceleration, this means that the 0-60 mph times are more consistent and
easily achieved, whereas with the E55 AMG Kompressor, the torque being
available at a much lower engine speed, frequently causing wheelspin (and
ESP / ASR actuation) under hard acceleration. Our tests yielded more
consistent results for the E63 AMG, although in some cases the E55 AMG
delivered a lower elapsed time at the dragstrip.
On the road course racing track we used, the advantage of the E63 AMG was
much greater. On the same day under identical conditions, out pro driver
lapped the 1.48 mile track at 3-4 seconds quicker in the E63 AMG
consistently. This can be attributed to the superior compound brakes,
revised suspension, 7 speed AMG Speedshift automatic with shift paddles as
well as the lower weight of the engine (-47 lb) over the front axle.
Further, our drivers found the E63 AMG much smoother, more progressive and
easier to drive fast.
We plan to show information and other cool stuff from our testing on
Mercedes-amg.com/privatelounge very soon so that you can see the E63 AMG
results for yourself."
Put my E63 order on hold pending release of comparison data.
09-12-2006, 10:57 PM
#2
MBWorld Fanatic!
every present publication i've seen shows mb claiming the e63 to be undeniably quicker in every category and now they are saying that it's just more "consistent"...wtf??? subtle little statements like this hidden in several paragraphs of e63 praise sounds like spin control to me.
i'd be really pissed if i just gave up an e55 for this. and this doesn't help mb against all the detuned e55 conspiracy theories either.
Last edited by chiromikey; 09-13-2006 at 12:29 AM.
09-12-2006, 11:48 PM
#3
Super Member
Good stuff! Thanks for the info.
I don't think most amg owners care about lap times at the track. Atleast I don't. I just want a good looking 4 door grocery getter/kid hauler that will bruise a few egos on the street ala 55, 65 600 etc. If I cared about lap times I would buy a Pcar not a 4 door sedan. (which I have) Why MB is going down that road is beyond me. Stick to the niche of building torque monsters and let BMW focus on F1 technology for 4 doors (they do it well, but it's not for me).
I don't think most amg owners care about lap times at the track. Atleast I don't. I just want a good looking 4 door grocery getter/kid hauler that will bruise a few egos on the street ala 55, 65 600 etc. If I cared about lap times I would buy a Pcar not a 4 door sedan. (which I have) Why MB is going down that road is beyond me. Stick to the niche of building torque monsters and let BMW focus on F1 technology for 4 doors (they do it well, but it's not for me).
09-12-2006, 11:54 PM
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I completely agree except for the part about that says, "some cases the E55 AMG delivered a lower elapsed time at the dragstrip."
Even though I have not had it on the track, believing that it is far superior to the E55 is not hard to believe. The initial bite on the brakes is almost as good as my Noble, truly impressive. Had I never had an E55, I would be COMPLETELY satisfied with the E63- it's a fine car.
That being said, it's going back. Honestly, I think the E55 prefers the thought of the M6 next to it.
Even though I have not had it on the track, believing that it is far superior to the E55 is not hard to believe. The initial bite on the brakes is almost as good as my Noble, truly impressive. Had I never had an E55, I would be COMPLETELY satisfied with the E63- it's a fine car.
That being said, it's going back. Honestly, I think the E55 prefers the thought of the M6 next to it.
09-12-2006, 11:55 PM
#5
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2005 E55 Delivered 01/07/05
This is no surprize, since Rob Allen of Mercedes Benz AMG USA told us at AMGFEST this year that the E55 did pull slight quicker times downt the 1/4 mile over the E63. He also told us that the E63 performed better on a road corse than the old E55 just like you heard.
This is what I heard from Rob Allen sitting 10 feet away from him during his presentation at AMGFEST last month. Personally when it comes time to sell my '05 E55 down the road I will seriously consider the E63.
This is what I heard from Rob Allen sitting 10 feet away from him during his presentation at AMGFEST last month. Personally when it comes time to sell my '05 E55 down the road I will seriously consider the E63.
09-13-2006, 07:03 AM
#6
Emailed AMG product manager about my concerns over E63 performance as I have an E63 wagon ordered to replace 03 E55 coming off lease.
Looks like MBUSA will post some comparisons on the AMG private lounge site.
Here are excerpts from MBUSA response
"Like you, we were also interested in head-to-head comparisons of the cars,
both under acceleration, as well as on the track where other performance
characteristics (braking, handling, lateral acceleration) could be
compared.
Basically, the E63 AMG is a much smoother and more linear performer,. For
acceleration, this means that the 0-60 mph times are more consistent and
easily achieved, whereas with the E55 AMG Kompressor, the torque being
available at a much lower engine speed, frequently causing wheelspin (and
ESP / ASR actuation) under hard acceleration. Our tests yielded more
consistent results for the E63 AMG, although in some cases the E55 AMG
delivered a lower elapsed time at the dragstrip.
On the road course racing track we used, the advantage of the E63 AMG was
much greater. On the same day under identical conditions, out pro driver
lapped the 1.48 mile track at 3-4 seconds quicker in the E63 AMG
consistently. This can be attributed to the superior compound brakes,
revised suspension, 7 speed AMG Speedshift automatic with shift paddles as
well as the lower weight of the engine (-47 lb) over the front axle.
Further, our drivers found the E63 AMG much smoother, more progressive and
easier to drive fast.
We plan to show information and other cool stuff from our testing on
Mercedes-amg.com/privatelounge very soon so that you can see the E63 AMG
results for yourself."
Put my E63 order on hold pending release of comparison data.
Looks like MBUSA will post some comparisons on the AMG private lounge site.
Here are excerpts from MBUSA response
"Like you, we were also interested in head-to-head comparisons of the cars,
both under acceleration, as well as on the track where other performance
characteristics (braking, handling, lateral acceleration) could be
compared.
Basically, the E63 AMG is a much smoother and more linear performer,. For
acceleration, this means that the 0-60 mph times are more consistent and
easily achieved, whereas with the E55 AMG Kompressor, the torque being
available at a much lower engine speed, frequently causing wheelspin (and
ESP / ASR actuation) under hard acceleration. Our tests yielded more
consistent results for the E63 AMG, although in some cases the E55 AMG
delivered a lower elapsed time at the dragstrip.
On the road course racing track we used, the advantage of the E63 AMG was
much greater. On the same day under identical conditions, out pro driver
lapped the 1.48 mile track at 3-4 seconds quicker in the E63 AMG
consistently. This can be attributed to the superior compound brakes,
revised suspension, 7 speed AMG Speedshift automatic with shift paddles as
well as the lower weight of the engine (-47 lb) over the front axle.
Further, our drivers found the E63 AMG much smoother, more progressive and
easier to drive fast.
We plan to show information and other cool stuff from our testing on
Mercedes-amg.com/privatelounge very soon so that you can see the E63 AMG
results for yourself."
Put my E63 order on hold pending release of comparison data.
Ted
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09-13-2006, 09:07 AM
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'10 E63 AMG
this is quite a big piece of information that mb should have been honest about up front.
every present publication i've seen shows mb claiming the e63 to be undeniably quicker in every category and now they are saying that it's just more "consistent"...wtf??? subtle little statements like this hidden in several paragraphs of e63 praise sounds like spin control to me.
i'd be really pissed if i just gave up an e55 for this. and this doesn't help mb against all the detuned e55 conspiracy theories either.
every present publication i've seen shows mb claiming the e63 to be undeniably quicker in every category and now they are saying that it's just more "consistent"...wtf??? subtle little statements like this hidden in several paragraphs of e63 praise sounds like spin control to me.
i'd be really pissed if i just gave up an e55 for this. and this doesn't help mb against all the detuned e55 conspiracy theories either.
09-13-2006, 09:10 AM
#9
09-13-2006, 09:46 AM
#10
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2003 E55 & 2014 GL550
although in some cases the E55 AMG
delivered a lower elapsed time at the dragstrip.
On the road course racing track we used, the advantage of the E63 AMG was
much greater.
delivered a lower elapsed time at the dragstrip.
On the road course racing track we used, the advantage of the E63 AMG was
much greater.
Well there you have it, course we all knew it but now it's confirmed. This is a track car built pretty much with an M5 on the wall with the words "We're comin" printed.
I would say mission accomplised and GREAT JOB AMG. All those years we have heard how, "It handles like a pig compared to the M5 are finally over"
You did it, we are all proud...........now cut the ***** and slap the forced induction back on and let's get back to the business of brute force before you lose 75% of your sales base.
I want twisties, I will always buy Bimmer, I want luxury/nose bleed power from satanic torque, I buy AMG.
Least the mystery is over. It's an F1 car, while we all love our Nitro Funny Cars.
09-13-2006, 10:01 AM
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CLS55
i think we can all wait two more says to see what happens at Trackday!!!!
in which case we will have all these cars (e55, m5, e63, etc) in attendence.... and the only spin will be from the wheels!
in which case we will have all these cars (e55, m5, e63, etc) in attendence.... and the only spin will be from the wheels!
09-13-2006, 10:08 AM
#12
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'10 E63 AMG
AMG Lounge
I went to the AMG Lounce, and couldn't find that quote, nor could I find the "forum" part of the lounge where you have to sign in. I thought I had signed up on this site, but now I can't find it. Am I looking in the wrong place? Can someone direct me? Thanks!
09-13-2006, 12:11 PM
#13
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DING DING DING DING!!!! and we have an answer everybody (crowd erupts)
Well there you have it, course we all knew it but now it's confirmed. This is a track car built pretty much with an M5 on the wall with the words "We're comin" printed.
I would say mission accomplised and GREAT JOB AMG. All those years we have heard how, "It handles like a pig compared to the M5 are finally over"
You did it, we are all proud...........now cut the ***** and slap the forced induction back on and let's get back to the business of brute force before you lose 75% of your sales base.
I want twisties, I will always buy Bimmer, I want luxury/nose bleed power from satanic torque, I buy AMG.
Least the mystery is over. It's an F1 car, while we all love our Nitro Funny Cars.
Well there you have it, course we all knew it but now it's confirmed. This is a track car built pretty much with an M5 on the wall with the words "We're comin" printed.
I would say mission accomplised and GREAT JOB AMG. All those years we have heard how, "It handles like a pig compared to the M5 are finally over"
You did it, we are all proud...........now cut the ***** and slap the forced induction back on and let's get back to the business of brute force before you lose 75% of your sales base.
I want twisties, I will always buy Bimmer, I want luxury/nose bleed power from satanic torque, I buy AMG.
Least the mystery is over. It's an F1 car, while we all love our Nitro Funny Cars.
But I'm pretty sure Brabus, Renn or Kleeman will fit a low boost kompressor to increase torque. The tranny has limitations as we know, but all we need is torque to be sooner and the WHOLE problem is solved. Of course the FI on the engine will increase HP as well, but the design should be based on created torque at the lower RPMS.
So if you would imagine this.
6.3 with low boost Komp
575hp
525lbs torque at around 2.5k rpms
7 spds
better handling
better braking
I'm not taking in consideration price of the mod, but since a K2 with IC mod runs about $10k+... it would not be very more than that.
Just food for thought.
09-13-2006, 12:48 PM
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'03 G500, '13 G63, '17 GLS63,
Well, this confirms that I will NEVER trade my E55 in for an E63. If i want a more track-oriented car, I will simply purchase an M5. I liked the AMG M-B's because of their unique character and excellent power, not because I want to chase BMW's around the track.
09-13-2006, 02:48 PM
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2006 E55 Black
Yeah, me too...
As others have said so well, I think AMG saw the BMW M5 as the target... and forget that what AMG customers want is brutal low end torque. I WANT to see TC light flicker everytime I hit the gas! I will never, ever, take my E55 to a road course sort of track. I don't drive on the Autobahn, and I can't drive at 100+ on the highways anywhere around here.
All my fun is between 0 to 70 MPH. And I want to go from 0 to 70 right this instant, anytime I want. If not for that, I wouldn't bother with an AMG at all. I'm Soooo glad I bought my 2006 E55, it's flawless and fantastic. I'll drive it for years to come.
Now, my question to the community is, why not make our next car an E550 and buy the Kleemann S/C for it? Has anyone created a S/C E550 yet? I'll bet it would compare quite nicely to the 03-06 E55k. I'll bet it could be as fast as any E55 or E63 in the 1/4 and would cost less.
Cheers
All my fun is between 0 to 70 MPH. And I want to go from 0 to 70 right this instant, anytime I want. If not for that, I wouldn't bother with an AMG at all. I'm Soooo glad I bought my 2006 E55, it's flawless and fantastic. I'll drive it for years to come.
Now, my question to the community is, why not make our next car an E550 and buy the Kleemann S/C for it? Has anyone created a S/C E550 yet? I'll bet it would compare quite nicely to the 03-06 E55k. I'll bet it could be as fast as any E55 or E63 in the 1/4 and would cost less.
Cheers
09-13-2006, 02:59 PM
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14 'E550
News flash......you don't have to be on a road course to appreciate buttoned up handling, steering, and braking. Maybe unless you live in FL.
To me, I'll gladly give up a slightly lower 1/4 time for better "all" around performance.
That's what makes a great performance car, not just straight line performance.
I guess if you're into racing red light to red light, then the E55 is for you. Better yet....get a GT500, one company put $2500 (give or take) into one and ran a 11.06 1/4 at 131mph and a 10.99 at 129mph.
To me, I'll gladly give up a slightly lower 1/4 time for better "all" around performance.
That's what makes a great performance car, not just straight line performance.
I guess if you're into racing red light to red light, then the E55 is for you. Better yet....get a GT500, one company put $2500 (give or take) into one and ran a 11.06 1/4 at 131mph and a 10.99 at 129mph.
09-13-2006, 03:03 PM
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2009 C63 Black on Black
Ditto, Ditto, Ditto!!!
As others have said so well, I think AMG saw the BMW M5 as the target... and forget that what AMG customers want is brutal low end torque. I WANT to see TC light flicker everytime I hit the gas! I will never, ever, take my E55 to a road course sort of track. I don't drive on the Autobahn, and I can't drive at 100+ on the highways anywhere around here.
All my fun is between 0 to 70 MPH. And I want to go from 0 to 70 right this instant, anytime I want. If not for that, I wouldn't bother with an AMG at all. I'm Soooo glad I bought my 2006 E55, it's flawless and fantastic. I'll drive it for years to come.
Now, my question to the community is, why not make our next car an E550 and buy the Kleemann S/C for it? Has anyone created a S/C E550 yet? I'll bet it would compare quite nicely to the 03-06 E55k. I'll bet it could be as fast as any E55 or E63 in the 1/4 and would cost less.
Cheers
All my fun is between 0 to 70 MPH. And I want to go from 0 to 70 right this instant, anytime I want. If not for that, I wouldn't bother with an AMG at all. I'm Soooo glad I bought my 2006 E55, it's flawless and fantastic. I'll drive it for years to come.
Now, my question to the community is, why not make our next car an E550 and buy the Kleemann S/C for it? Has anyone created a S/C E550 yet? I'll bet it would compare quite nicely to the 03-06 E55k. I'll bet it could be as fast as any E55 or E63 in the 1/4 and would cost less.
Cheers
09-13-2006, 03:13 PM
#18
News flash......you don't have to be on a road course to appreciate buttoned up handling, steering, and braking. Maybe unless you live in FL.
To me, I'll gladly give up a slightly lower 1/4 time for better "all" around performance.
That's what makes a great performance car, not just straight line performance.
I guess if you're into racing red light to red light, then the E55 is for you. Better yet....get a GT500, one company put $2500 (give or take) into one and ran a 11.06 1/4 at 131mph and a 10.99 at 129mph.
To me, I'll gladly give up a slightly lower 1/4 time for better "all" around performance.
That's what makes a great performance car, not just straight line performance.
I guess if you're into racing red light to red light, then the E55 is for you. Better yet....get a GT500, one company put $2500 (give or take) into one and ran a 11.06 1/4 at 131mph and a 10.99 at 129mph.
Ted
09-13-2006, 03:13 PM
#19
MBWorld Fanatic!
I feel vindicated after all the heat I took early on from other E63 buyers and planned buyers and Slick MB Sales folks (you know who you are!) when I cancelled my E63 order and got another E55! The sarcastic comments about my buying a "Used" E55 I can fling back at them now! I am really happy with my decision.
09-13-2006, 03:16 PM
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14 'E550
What to do?
Guess there are some positives and negatives in both regards.
There is indeed a big *** price difference.
09-13-2006, 03:30 PM
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2007 SL550, 2008 S65, Golf cart and a few non-MB vehicles
oblax4
Very sharp car! love the wheels. What part of Ponte Vedra are you in? I used to live in The Plantation.
09-13-2006, 04:23 PM
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As others have said so well, I think AMG saw the BMW M5 as the target... and forget that what AMG customers want is brutal low end torque. I WANT to see TC light flicker everytime I hit the gas! I will never, ever, take my E55 to a road course sort of track. I don't drive on the Autobahn, and I can't drive at 100+ on the highways anywhere around here.
All my fun is between 0 to 70 MPH. And I want to go from 0 to 70 right this instant, anytime I want. If not for that, I wouldn't bother with an AMG at all. I'm Soooo glad I bought my 2006 E55, it's flawless and fantastic. I'll drive it for years to come.
Now, my question to the community is, why not make our next car an E550 and buy the Kleemann S/C for it? Has anyone created a S/C E550 yet? I'll bet it would compare quite nicely to the 03-06 E55k. I'll bet it could be as fast as any E55 or E63 in the 1/4 and would cost less.
Cheers
All my fun is between 0 to 70 MPH. And I want to go from 0 to 70 right this instant, anytime I want. If not for that, I wouldn't bother with an AMG at all. I'm Soooo glad I bought my 2006 E55, it's flawless and fantastic. I'll drive it for years to come.
Now, my question to the community is, why not make our next car an E550 and buy the Kleemann S/C for it? Has anyone created a S/C E550 yet? I'll bet it would compare quite nicely to the 03-06 E55k. I'll bet it could be as fast as any E55 or E63 in the 1/4 and would cost less.
Cheers
After the engine boost to about 480hp (100hp for the komp on a 5.5L engine)
wheels and tires, suspension, better brakes,
it will still have a power limitation and will lake the AMG name, which add a bit of value to any MB.
I paid 53k for my 03 with 15k miles... A new E550 would be easily in the 60's.
O5 E55's are going for the low 60's now. Therefore right now the E550 with mods is not cost effective. Your theory will be true a few years from now, when one can pick up a E550 cheaper.
09-13-2006, 09:43 PM
#23
Super Member
I agree! 100%
But I'm pretty sure Brabus, Renn or Kleeman will fit a low boost kompressor to increase torque. The tranny has limitations as we know, but all we need is torque to be sooner and the WHOLE problem is solved. Of course the FI on the engine will increase HP as well, but the design should be based on created torque at the lower RPMS.
So if you would imagine this.
6.3 with low boost Komp
575hp
525lbs torque at around 2.5k rpms
7 spds
better handling
better braking
I'm not taking in consideration price of the mod, but since a K2 with IC mod runs about $10k+... it would not be very more than that.
Just food for thought.
But I'm pretty sure Brabus, Renn or Kleeman will fit a low boost kompressor to increase torque. The tranny has limitations as we know, but all we need is torque to be sooner and the WHOLE problem is solved. Of course the FI on the engine will increase HP as well, but the design should be based on created torque at the lower RPMS.
So if you would imagine this.
6.3 with low boost Komp
575hp
525lbs torque at around 2.5k rpms
7 spds
better handling
better braking
I'm not taking in consideration price of the mod, but since a K2 with IC mod runs about $10k+... it would not be very more than that.
Just food for thought.
You're forgetting one teeny little difference... which takes us back to the original problem: The K2 would have 630 torque, quite a difference...
Loren
09-13-2006, 09:58 PM
#24
Still getting an AMG wagon to replace 03 E55
......but it is an 06 E55 wagon, arriving tomorrow.
I like the functionality of a wagon - hunting dog in the back etc, and in particular the sleeper status of the E55 wagon. The extra weight on the rear also addresses some of the traction issues and since I don't plan on going on a road course the faster lap times in the E63 do not compensate for the lower torque. As Derek said the E63 is a fine car that most people will be happy with, unless they have recently owned an E55.
I like the functionality of a wagon - hunting dog in the back etc, and in particular the sleeper status of the E55 wagon. The extra weight on the rear also addresses some of the traction issues and since I don't plan on going on a road course the faster lap times in the E63 do not compensate for the lower torque. As Derek said the E63 is a fine car that most people will be happy with, unless they have recently owned an E55.
09-13-2006, 10:57 PM
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'06 E55, '05 SLK55, a few others
No way a Kleemann blower for the 63 is going to be anywhere near 10K, if it ever happens. Their setup for a W210 is 15K with installation. That puts a loaded E63 with K blower in the 110K range. After you pick up the 7G trans you've spread all over the road and someone figures out how to keep it together with that power, you're out even more.
