W420

Yes I notice the jump but I seem to also noticed K4 hit the brake a bit right afterwards (maybe to compensate for the jump? I dunno). Jump or not, the K4 did pull from the start no question about it.

M&M

Ok If I was like Impro I could use his logic to prove the M6 is stock. You see there was a Kelleners modified M5 there. I don't know for the life of me why these guys would admit the M5 was modified but lie the M6 was stock. I don't know what that would achieve, but hey Impro is convinced.

Anyway I digress, I believe we will see a video of the modified M5 laying an even larger smack down on the K4 later.

But back to Imp's logic of using videos as proof. You see the M5 & the M6, both raced the Ferrari 430 & the Z06. IT's a long shot but you can see the 430 giving the M6 a severe nose-bleed, & pulls away the whole time. And the modified M5 also loses, but it's much closer & it starts coming back at the 430at high speeds, which the Stock M6 was not doing at all. The Z06 also beat both but the modified M5 put up a much better fight. All the videos are on M5board.

So what do you think? Is it a long shot to use Impro's logic to prove a car is stock?

Finnish C32

Next video from Gustav is M6 vs. Koenigsegg CCX and there is no answer which is faster. M6 all the way!

M&M

Yeah but look closely & the car didn't stop accelerating nor did its stance change & stop squatting. So they jumped the start but maybe some part of his foot touched the brake pedal but it didn't stop accelerating.

Either way I would expect a 640hp boosted 55 to pull a stock M6. What do you think?

Finnish C32

there is NO 640hp on that E55. just cant be true.

M&M

Yeah & you know why. I bet right now as we speak, Impro is typing up 2 pages of garbage to clutter this thread about the conspiracy that both M6's had James Bond undercover hidden mods that none of the motoring experts at the airfield could detect.

Prepare yourself for an utter waster of another 2 pages, half of which will be off topic & about some video from Afganistan & some magazine from Greenland.

M&M

Yeah I agree with you there.

W420

Exactly. The K4 pulled the M6 in the video and I'm really impressed with the Kleemann mods. M6 came back strong and overtake at the end of the race so I'm also impressed with its gearing advantage.

About Improviz's "logic", he did back up his doubts with reasonS why the M6 does not look stock to him, and I think they are reasonable doubts. However, I am with you and my opinion is the M6 is stock so let's just leave it at that :P

FinnishC32, I believe Gustav also mentioned there are more videos of modded Kelleners M5 VS E55 K4, and video clips filmed from INSIDE of K4, so more to come? Let's wait and see but let's not start another new threads of "upcoming video" with 4+ pages of heated discussions BEFORE the video is even hosted. LOL.

Improviz

Wow, look at those nice round dual exhaust tips on those M6s....they really look dramatically different from these nice, round dual exhaust tips on the Supersprint aftermarket muffler for the M6:
http://www.supersprintna.com/product...earch_model/21


Oh, yeah.....very, very easy to see from the pics you posted that those are definitely stock mufflers' tips....they bear absolutely no resemblence to the Supersprint mufflers' tips, lol....

And in any case, Supersprint's system can be utilized w/stock mufflers (again, not that you've established that those were the stock mufflers, as the above photo shows; just want to illustrate how misinformed you are, yet again):

Elitemotorcars.com's page for the Supersprint exhaust system for E60 M5 & E63 M6:
http://www.elitemotorcars.com/autopa...716&parent=228
So sorry, but the presence of stock-appearing exhaust tips in no way establishes that the mufflers *or* exhaust system was stock, let alone that other components on the car were not modified.

And again: here are the three videos, three different drivers, running three different M cars, an M6 and two M5s. Why is it that only Gustav's cars seem to run so quickly up high? Why is it that none of these cars run off and leave the cars they're racing like Gustav's cars do?

K2 vs modded M5: M5 jumps on it first, K2 still reels him in like a fish:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...14243445275051

Video of 996 TT running a non-Gustav M6:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...45627841547904

Gustav's video of a 996 TT running a "stock" M6:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...64103205155527

Video of stock SL55 (a tad slower than an E55) with 20" rims running a stock M5, twice, from 60-210 km/h. With somewhat dramatically different results than Gustav got against a MODDED E55:
http://videos.streetfire.net/search/...5a00acf91e.htm

Hmm....interesting.

M&M

Because they know how to drive & put the car in the right modes.

Your on the street encounters are with some guy we don't even know. I could be a valet driving the car for all we know. Surely you realise a street video with an unknown driver is not relevant.

AT THE AIRFIELD WE HAVE THE OWNERS OF THE CARS IN A RACE THEY KNOW IS HAPPENING & BEING FILMED.

And now you dig up some Supersprint stuff. WTF. How can you prove that every video of every stock E55 is really stock? Maybe every E55 on planet earht has a stock looking muffler that's modifed?

Anyway look at the bottom of the muffler:



The shape is different to the Supersprint one:



Because it is the stock muffler. I sounds stock as well. Listen to the Kellerner's M5. It is a lot more bassy. You are clutching at straws & messing up this thread.

Improviz

Which, again, is conjecture, because you have absolutely no proof whatsoever that the drivers in the videos I provided did NOT put them in the right modes, and did NOT know how to drive.

If you have any such proof, one iota, provide it. Otherwise, stop making snide, unsubstantiated remarks about these drivers and their cars, because so far you haven't proven any such thing.

More conjecture, in a desparate attempt to raise doubt about the videos. You have no way to prove that the guy driving was anything other than the owner.

Again: if you have any evidence that the driver was not the owner, did not know how to drive, or did not place the car in the proper mode, produce it now.

Why? Because you say so? That is your opinion, but unfortunately, you have yet to produce any concrete facts showing why these videos should be ignored. And so you desparately use conjecture in a vain attempt to undermine the credibility.

Which just goes to show that either you're deliberately misleading people again, or did not even bother to watch the videos I provided. I would assume that the OWNERS OF THE CARS IN THE RACES I PROVIDED KNEW THE RACE WAS HAPPENING AND THAT THEY WERE BEING FILMED, because

1) in the races, the cars were lined up and began the races after three honks, and;

2) they had a camera pointed directly at them.

I can't. However, if someone came in here with a "stock" E55 running 11.5s, I'd be similarly suspicious. If someone came in here with a video of a "stock" E55 leaving an M5 for dead in a rolling-start race, I'd also be similarly suspicious.

Not only are you not watching my videos, you're not reading my posts.

I already established, in my previous post, that the supersprint headers can be utilized with stock exhaust. Learn to read more carefully. Here is what the company selling the exhaust wrote, again, since you seemed to have missed it the first time:


And *I'm* grasping at straws?? Don't make me laugh....I already documented how many flyers you've thrown out in this thread above, after all.

M&M

My word you go through so much of effort & the net result is just bull. "Can you prove this, can you prove that"

No I can't prove jack & neither can you. Can you prove the M6 is modified.

SO LET'S GET DOWN TO BUSINESS!

It seems it has all boiled down to this. Improviz has a theory but no proof that both M6's at the airfield has Supersprint header, but stock mufflers. And that's why they were so fast.

Are there any Supersprint dealers in Europe? Have any been sold yet.

Well if Imp say so then it must be true. But why would they disclose the M5's mods & lie about the M6's. And why was the modified M5 faster than the M6's?

Mmmm, must be a conspiracy I tell ye'. It just can't be a bunch of enthusiasts having fun at an airfield.

Impro, we can go back & forth & mess up this thread with pages of bull. I am ready & will refute every post you make. But it's a waste of everyone's time here. No one that was present at the airfield says anything like what you say.

egxpimp

Guy's just drop it...its getting annoying... both cars are GREAT, it's just a matter of preference. I'll take an m6/m5 please !

Improviz

I can post videos showing that in multiple cases, with multiple drivers of multiple cars, none of them even came *close* to being as fast as that M6 in the video.

Which is more than what you've provided, which is nothing more than a witches' brew of conjecture, insinuation, false claims (again, documented above), and gobblygook.

(sigh....) Please quote where I stated, anywhere, that both of those cars had an aftermarket exhaust, FULL STOP, let alone a Supersprint.

I did not.

What I did do was:

1) post a photo of a Supersprint muffler to show how the tips are identical to stock;

2) post a page from Supersprint showing how one need not replace the factory mufflers or cats to install Supersprint headers.

This, you see, is not something I did in a vacuum; I did this to counter an assertion YOU made, which is that we can determine with absolute certainty by looking at the photos that you posted that those M6s' exhaust systems were not modified.

And I did counter your assertion. If you feel that I have not established that a photo of a car's exhaust tips does not, in any way, prove that the exhaust system, let alone the engine and its internals, are OEM, then please explain how.

Supersprint headers can be used with factory mufflers.

This is beyond dispute.

The retailer says this. And I seriously doubt that other manufacturers' systems are configured any differently. Exhaust systems are made of components, and it's quite an easy task to add headers & pipes all the way back to the stock mufflers. I personally know people who have done this because they want better flow but don't like the sound of aftermarket mufflers.

So your photo doesn't prove squat.

And here's a newsflash: there are other modifications one can make to cars besides exhaust. So far, you haven't even begun to address the possibility of internal engine mods, gearing mods, etc. to either of these cars.

Again: Imp not say so. You say Imp say so. But you wrong. Imp not say so. Read Imp's post. Imp post that stock-appearing exhaust tips not prove exhaust system stock. Imp is right. Imp prove this with link to retailer. Imp not claim that cars have Supersprint. Imp only claim that you not have proof exhaust system stock.

Clear now?

Perhaps the M5 was provided by the company who did the mods? I don't know this for certain and don't have time to check, but it is a possible explanation. (Note that I, unlike you, don't blithely claim that which I do not know to be true as factual).

Oh, feel free to start any time; so far, I haven't seen any refutations from you whatsoever. If I've missed one, please point out where you posted a single documented fact that disproves any claim I've made over the course of this thread.

Just one. Come on, you can do it.

I documented many from you above, so feel free to start anytime.

I certainly don't doubt that M6s are insanely fast up high, but I am not going to discount what my eyes tell me in the other videos. Drives you nuts, I know, but you can't wave a magic wand and make them disappear.

ultraseven

Give it a rest, seriously. You've already been shown here and on Audiworld to be a famous fact twister. I don't see how anyone can take anything you say seriously here, but keep on going. I have about 3 bags of popcorn to go .

cte430

The thing I don't get is why do people care so much whether their car won or lost a race does it make you feel any better or worse depending on how "your" car did? Does it make you want to sell / buy a different car? The flag waving that goes on borders on being downright disturbing. When a company starts paying me I'll wave it's flag. It's nice to be a fan and all but come on.

The other thing that cracks me up is comparing times - especially track times - when 99% of the car's owners don't have near the skill to get anywhere out of either car's capability.

amdeutsch

Ok,

You guys can't play nice in your sandbox. The advice has been given and the results are in: Take it to PM and/or email.

Thank you for your participation.