zumbalak

Actually the funniest thing about the M5board and the fellow M5 and M6 owners are some of them are completely delusional and live in a fantasy world. Literally they live in their own fantasy world.

A while back there was an idiotic, stupidest comment discussion about the m5 beating or keeping up with a Ferrari 430. Yeah the mighty exotic. Some of the delusional (maybe on bong or something ) owners of the m5 wrote the following comments:

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/sho...2&postcount=12

These comments are regarding M5 vs F430
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/sho...2&postcount=19

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/sho...6&postcount=23

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/sho...8&postcount=30
And Gustav said :

Well I guess Gustav's wish for the m6 will be zilch, because he posted the following Air Strip video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkMhwTy8kNk

And interestingly many people are hush hush, and not really commenting about such video Maybe because the f430 literally but a couple of bus lengths on the m6????

There were also members claiming the m6 would keep up with the new 911 Turbo. Well according to the m5 and m6 folks their cars destroy the 996TT so, they thought maybe they had a chance against the new 997TT.

Well link is right here, the same test field.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmIkQnTzwec
And yes the Turbo put a couple of buslengths on the mighty (whaha) m6 as well.Actually the funniest thing on the Turbo video is when Gustav says: "I think he might be a little bit faster, we will see" regarding the TT. Whahahahahaha. A little bit???

Now imagine what those cars will do to the m5.
And the Gustav character decides to ban any member who questions the integrity of the claims of certain m5 owners or tests.

Well they thought the m5 will keep up with the f430 or the TT.
I guess they are full of it huh?

chiromikey

you'll have to wait until he gets his 3rd transmission replaced.

blackbenzz

Honestly, I know several M5 and M6 owners and none of them act like Gustav or this wanna be M5 owner on here. They are all very respectful and cool people. And to be fair, the M5/M6 are VERY fast at high speeds but just dont compete on the low end with modded 55's. Usually the only people that drive nice cars and are arrogant/****y people seem to know nothing about cars and its their first time owning a nice car. Both the M5 and M6 are very nice cars and I owuldnt mind owning either of them.

Benz-O-Rama

EEEEEESH! Is this still going on? Seriously, guys.....A friggin pirate!

Cylinder Head

iTrader: (1)

I'm not going to wade into this d!ck swinging contest over who faked what, who modded what or who has spy photos of Gustav's purportedly evil plan to help BMW take over the world by inciting AMG enthusiasts to riot (which apparently is working), but I will pose a few suggestions as to how this result was obtained sans conspiracy theories:

Heat is the culprit here, at stock power the M113 experiences heatsoak during full-power pulls, so one could imagine that a K4 would have exponentially higher heatsoaking properties. That 640hp car was not making full power by the time the M6 started reeling it in, but the M6 was most certainly making all 507 ponies and putting them all to the ground. The more familiar you are with F/I, the more sense this makes. Those of you from the biturbo S4 era can wholly agree with me that after an 8 second highway pull you'd lose a good amount of power, and that's on a 250 hp car.

Torque does not factor in here after the initial 0-60 bout. After that its all about the ponies and gearing, and the heavy gearing advantage goes to the M6. Its a looooong ride between 3rd and 4th, 4th to 5th and from 5th in an E55. I'd imagine you're not exactly at that 640 pony peak throughout the rev range, there seems to be a sweet spot between 5 and 6 grand and after that the power drops off because of rich running conditions.

K I'm gone before someone yells at me, and please ban the Bimmer troll he's going to ruin my rep here.

Finnish C32

SL65 has more weight, worse aerodynamics, less power. but more torque, and higher price.
Q: why the heck M6 cant beat it?
A: no, its not torque.


(and no, its not gearing)

Ahmed

Guys,

Are there any videos of an E63 vs M5 race?

Cylinder Head

iTrader: (1)

Answer- Much less heat.

M&M

IMp, none of the owners of the other cars claimed the M6 was modded. The Ferrari 430, the 997 turbo, the Gallardo, the Z06, even the KLeeman guys. NONE of them even whispered any suspicions that it was not stock.

AND THEY WERE THERE. You weren't.

So please provide proof that it's modded or STFU.

BoBcanada

M cars are GODs

Now lets stop right here.

M&M

Imp gonna acuse me of cherry-picking so I just gonna post the latest 3 tests:

http://www.einszweidrei.de/mercedes/sl65amg2004-2.htm

Test in sport auto 09/2004
Gewicht 2049 kg
0 - 80 km/h 3,3 s
0 - 100 km/h 4,3 s
0 - 120 km/h 5,6 s
0 - 130 km/h - s
0 - 140 km/h 7,1 s
0 - 160 km/h 8,8 s
0 - 180 km/h 10,5 s
0 - 200 km/h 13,1 s

http://www.einszweidrei.de/mercedes/sl65amg2004-1.htm

Test in ams 13/2004
Gewicht 2057 kg
0 - 80 km/h 3,0 s
0 - 100 km/h 3,9 s
0 - 120 km/h 5,1 s
0 - 130 km/h 5,9 s
0 - 140 km/h 6,6 s
0 - 160 km/h 8,2 s
0 - 180 km/h 10,1 s
0 - 200 km/h 12,6 s

http://www.einszweidrei.de/bmw/m6e632005-1.htm

Test in sport auto 07/2005
Gewicht 1761 kg
0 - 80 km/h 3,3 s
0 - 100 km/h 4,2 s
0 - 120 km/h 5,6 s
0 - 130 km/h - s
0 - 140 km/h 7,0 s
0 - 160 km/h 8,7 s
0 - 180 km/h 10,9 s
0 - 200 km/h 12,8 s

http://www.einszweidrei.de/bmw/bmwm6cpst2005-1.htm

Supertest in sport auto 12/2005
Gewicht 1761 kg
0 - 80 km/h 3,3 s
0 - 100 km/h 4,2 s
0 - 120 km/h 5,6 s
0 - 130 km/h - s
0 - 140 km/h 7,0 s
0 - 160 km/h 8,7 s
0 - 180 km/h 10,9 s
0 - 200 km/h 12,8 s

http://www.einszweidrei.de/bmw/bmwm6cpe63smg2005-3.htm

Test in ams Jahrbuch 2006
Gewicht 1760 kg
0 - 80 km/h 3,3 s
0 - 100 km/h 4,2 s
0 - 120 km/h - s
0 - 130 km/h - s
0 - 140 km/h - s
0 - 160 km/h - s
0 - 180 km/h 10,7 s
0 - 200 km/h 13,0 s


http://www.einszweidrei.de/mercedes/...mgst2005-1.htm

Supertest in sport auto 02/2005
Gewicht 2049 kg
0 - 80 km/h 3,3 s
0 - 100 km/h 4,3 s
0 - 120 km/h 5,6 s
0 - 130 km/h - s
0 - 140 km/h 7,1 s
0 - 160 km/h 8,8 s
0 - 180 km/h 10,5 s
0 - 200 km/h 13,1 s

e55 baller

Couldn't agree more. I had that car and it literally fell on its face at 90mph.

Heat is likely the factor however one thing I would be interested in seeing is the dyno plots of the 2 cars (m6 and K4E55) by mph or calculate the RWHP under the curve at redline. The M6 benefits from being in powerband with a relatively high average rwhp figure where as the E55 probably has more variance from 4.x - 6.4 rmps.

e55 baller

Now this is funny. A M6 beat a SL65 AMG. Planet Earth to M&M: This cars run 11s@125 stock.

[QUOTE=M&M;1815318]Imp gonna acuse me of cherry-picking so I just gonna post the latest 3 tests:

http://www.einszweidrei.de/mercedes/sl65amg2004-2.htm

Test in sport auto 09/2004
Gewicht 2049 kg
0 - 200 km/h 13,1 s

[http://www.einszweidrei.de/bmw/m6e632005-1.htm

Test in sport auto 07/2005
Gewicht 1761 kg
0 - 200 km/h 12,8 s

M&M

Thise are times to speed, not time to distance. But if you not happy with 3 different results on 3 different sets of cars from 3 different magazines, then take it up with the editors of these respected mags.

Maybe you guys underestimate the M6 or maybe the Euro launch control is much better than the US "pull off from idle" launch.

Finnish C32

[QUOTE=e55 baller;1815332]Now this is funny. A M6 beat a SL65 AMG. Planet Earth to M&M: This cars run 11s@125 stock.

dont forget SLR which includes this "heat-problematic" 55K motor and as fast as SL65 for quarter. couple weeks and we can see "stock m6 vs slr video" and for Gustav, lets take a roll 50-150mph.

Cylinder Head

iTrader: (1)

That is not entirely correct. The SLR has the M115 motor with a revised cooling system that includes 2 intercoolers to either side of the motor, not sandwiched between the motor and the blower. This makes the car run significantly cooler, with better top end power and no need for fuel richness as a "ghetto" patch for the otherwise intrinsic cooling problem.

e55 baller

Ok, I am going to end the debate. ALL Benzs and ALL BMWs are SLOW. Even Supras. J/K

Check out these times on drag radials. 7s@190mph

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1535885

Jakpro1

Best part is, we can solve this real quick. The might D-FSU has a brand spanking new 6, wonder if we could ever get someone to line up with him on that famous road he got the 190mph video on.

Gotta be someone with a K2 or more around Florida that would give it a go.

If it reels in, then owns the E55 like Gus's vid, then case closed.

Finnish C32

ofcourse i know this, but Kleeman cooling system helps also. and remember that E55K4 has more power, more torque, better aerodynamics etc. and if SL65 is near as fast as SLR from 50-150 like a E55K, it should be near a tie with M6. right?

zangerbenz

the m6 should be compared to the sl65
2door vs 2 door

the sl65 will tow the m6 faster than it can go !!!!!!!!!!

Cylinder Head

iTrader: (1)

Yes its a pretty good patch but it doesn't solve the problem with nearly the efficiency that the McLaren's solution does. A higher flowing coolant pump will only do so much, and is pretty easily overwhelmed at higher speeds when revs are pinned for a long time.

The SL65 has tiny turbos that don't lose a ton of volumetric efficiency over time. I'm not saying that they don't heatsoak at all, but the power loss will be less than the supercharger debaucle. Also, sometimes weight can be handy at higher speeds, you'd be surprised what momentum/inertia will do against a wall of air.

Cylinder Head

iTrader: (1)

Horrible statement. Let's compare a mustang GT to an Enzo then, 2 door vs. 2 door. I think at this level of performance the amount of doors doesn't really factor.

Besides, E55K vs. M5/M6 is an interesting comparison because these cars represent two different ideologies that are in the same performance envelope. On one side you have a torque-happy and seemingly american designed Supercharged V8 coupled to a very tough autobox. On the other you have a rev-happy NA V10 coupled to a ridiculously fast shifting 7-speed.

How are you going to go and throw a biturbo V12 engine into that equation, it obviously (especially by virtue of the price tag) is way out of the league of the two aforementioned engines. It not only displaces more than the V8 and the V10, but it also has two turbochargers. Really, really bad call Zangerbenz.

neilbo75

Watch the video again -- that K4 driver taps his brakes just after the start of the race.

The driver was probably trying to keep it down to 50. That hurts his lunge a bit but as we see the problem for the Benz comes at the top end. Assuming there is no issue with VMAX kicking in at 250 (Kleenman probably disconnected that) the problem does look to be gearing and/or S/C heat. It looks to be more likely heat, the way the Kleenmann product just poops out at the end. The big torque advantage at all RPMs ought to reduce the need for more gears.

The heat problem may be one reason AMG has swung back to N/A with the 63 engine.

It also makes me wonder if Kleemann should be selling engine and transmission oil temp gauges along with its kompressors and K4 packages. Both gauges feature on the CLK DTM.

houston

It'd be nice to see vids of the E55K4 vs F430 and the E55K4 Porsche 997TT just for comparo since we now have seen how the same M6 did with those 2 caes

Finnish C32

Cylinder Head,

I know already that you are not stupid and you also know about cars and other stuff, but are you still saying that even with "kleeman patched" cooling system, heat is still killing the starting-point overall? there is more power, better aerodynamics etc. even 100hp drop doesnt makes sense. really.