Improviz

When this popped up on the grid recently, I puzzled over something: we know that Gustav has given several reasons for not performing standing-start races against the E55, but this begs a question: why start these races specifically at 50 km/h? Why not start them at 10, 20, 30, 40, or 60 km/h?

If you look at the speeds in gears of the M5/M5 and the engine's torque ratings, the why quickly becomes apparent.

The M5, in first gear, has a speed of 5.33 mph/1000 rpm. So, take 50 km/h, convert it to mph (31.25), divide it by 5.33, and you get 5,900 rpm.

Now, take a guess where the M5 engine's torque peak is. Answer: 6,100 rpm. This occurs at 32.5 mph, or 52 km/h. What a happy coincidence!

It gets better. The E55 has a speed of 7.46 mph/1000 rpm in first gear. It makes max torque from 2,650-4,500 rpm. So, torque starts dropping off after 4,500 rpm.

Guess what mph the E55 is travelling at 4,500 rpm? 33.57 mph, or 53.7 km/h.

Isn't that nice? Gustav just happened to start his races at the point in first gear where the E55's torque is dropping off, and the M5's is peaking.

Which is, I'm entirely sure, coincidental, and had absolutely nothing to do with his decision to begin the races from 50 km/h.

Torquey55

Very interesting... Can't wait for the responses to this one.

Scruffyone

The answer is a lot more simple than you think. Gustav posts this bait on other boards as well as this one. His goal is to get us to join his board to take him on. He gets more members and maybe more advertising $$$ Confront him with the truth and you will get banned, no suprise there.
Maybe a repost, but two vids with all the credibility of his, of my SL55 kicking the crap out of an M5.

http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...t=DSCN0125.flv

http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...t=DSCN0126.flv

Note
In real life I spanked a M5 with my SL55 K2, both from a roll, and from a dig. Even spanked him after he jumped the start on the dig.

chiromikey

i'm not going to comment on the those videos anymore but last night my k2 walked my buddies stock m5 and his m5 never even began to catch up through the 1/4mile. he even redlighted one run on the 1st yellow and i still caught him by half track and continually put distance on him which i really didn't expect.

if the m5 shines, it has to be above 150 (which is useless anywhere besides the autobahn) because through 120 it was still losing ground. too bad for him i'll never run him at those speeds cause i'm a wuss.

M&M

Impro, here's another amazing mathematical revelation. The further you go in the race, the worse it gets.

You know why? 'Cos the M5 redlines at 8000rpm, shift up & then its at around 6000rpm again. This happens pretty much every gear.

The E55 shifts up its past its power peak. This also happens pretty much every time.

So maybe the only answer is to race from 0-20mph & then call it quits. What you think? Am I onto something?

waxking1

I don't think the 50kph start had anything to do with the Mercedes, but it did have everything to do with the BMW.

chiromikey

i think if you ever get a car you can test your hypothesis and discover you're full of **** on your own. until then, quit trolling.

BoBcanada

I cant belive this is not on CNN yet

OzE55

[QUOTE=Scruffyone;1826005]

http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...t=DSCN0125.flv

http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...t=DSCN0126.flv

QUOTE]


Luvin' it!!

MB Fanatic

Hmm perhaps Wolf Blitzer or Larry King can interview Gustav and Improviz. Id love to see that lol.

L8Apex

Just a crazy thought: Why don't we just get an E55 to race an M5 on a standing mile race here in the US? (I will even volunteer) This way it puts everyone on an even playing field. Let's put the issue to rest once and for all.

BoBcanada

I said so long time ago! Just make 3-5 races from stop, rolling, top speed whatever and put this bashing to bed already.

Improviz

I think, as usual, that you don't know what the hell you're talking about. As I personally have pointed out to you before, twice in this thread in fact, you are just spewing ignorant nonsense.

The M5's power peak is at 7,750 rpm, and its redline is at 8,250 rpm. Difference: 500 rpm.

The E55's power peak is at 6,100 rpm, and its redline is at 6,500 rpm.
Difference: 500 rpm.

Got any more uninformed nonsense you'd care to contribute??

You have also been shown, more than once, that the M5's gearing is the key. I reprint it again, just so you can ignore it again and try to bull**** people again in the future.

M&M

Ok Impro, you right. The E55's power peak follows a very similar pattern to the M5's.

Then what the hell was the point of this whining thread?

Ahmed

Oh man you guys are funny!

The guy's over at Kleemann in Denmark are probably working aruond theclock trying to figure out how on earth there top notch K4 car lost to a stock M6... and you guys are sittnig here debating the credibility of the outcome!

Get over it! Kleemann aint Brabus, they havent manufactured the fastest benz on the planet yet!

Improviz

Only two problems: 1) I never said any such thing; 2) this claim is totally false, as I'm sure you're aware. The torque peaks much earlier with the E55, given that it has forced induction, which the M5 does not. Per the manufacturers' ratings, the M5's peak torque is at 6.100 rpm, which as I showed before corresponds to 53 km/h; the E55's peak torque is given over a *range*, from 2650-4500 rpm.

Now, 2,650 rpm in the E55 corresponds to about 20 mph, or about 30 km/h. At this speed, it'd be producing 5325 lb-ft of rwtq.

Conversely, at 20 mph the M5 would be running about 3,600 rpm, producing somewhere in the neighborhood of 330 lb-ft, giving 4756 lb-ft of rwtq. See why Gustav didn't start the race at 30 km/h?

Further, the torque curve of the M5's engine , which is set up for high-rpm torque, drops off much less rapidly above its torque peak than does the E55's engine. At its hp peak of 7,750 rpm, the M5 is producing about 88% of max torque, while the E55 at its 6100 rpm horsepower peak is producing about 80% of its max torque.

Couple this with the M5's gear multiplication of 14.44 compared to the E55's of 9.51, and it's pretty clear why starting the race at 50 km/h gives the M an edge.

So clearly, it would have been more advantageous for the E55 to start out at the lower speed rpm, and clearly, it is more adventateous for the M5 to start out at the higher. The latter gives the M5 an edge in acceleration that it would lack were the race to be run from 30 km/h.

Which, I believe, is why Gustav chose to start the runs at 50 km/h.

Your deragatory remarks aside, there is nothing "whining" about it. I am simply pointing out, accurately, that the M5 gains a considerable edge in acceleration to begin the race at this speed.

You have nothing to counter this as the numbers clearly show it is factual, and so you resort to your usual techniques of throwing rocks at it via ad hominem attack and misrepresenting what I actually wrote. But the data clearly show that my claim is accurate. The M5 gains a marked edge by starting the race at 50 km/h, far more so than it would have had starting the race at a lower speed.

Oh, and Ahmed, I wasn't referring specifically to the Kleeman race, although this would be applicable there as well. Had the cars started at 30 km/h or even standing-start, the gap would have been much further.

vader

Maybe they need to read the other thread on the M5 kill and help us all understand how the M5 was killed at 160 mph...there HAS to be a reason.