jangy

Hi all, I wanted to see what the hater brigade thinks of running 100 octane (from VP Racing) vs 92 octane Chevron. I felt a nice difference in butt dyno and sound, but can't quantify. Anyone know for sure? I assume an ecu adjust to max out for 100 octane would see a benefit, but I wondered if the OEM setting does as well.

Snorman

Waste of money.
The car will actually lose power with too much octane.
S.

AMG_55

i put 2 cans of octane booster in my car and it was faster at the track than when i put 100octane in it

medici78

I can't see why it would lose power, especially since it is supercharged. Considering that in CA 91 octane is the norm and the cars run best on 93, I see no reason for not gaining at least a small degree of power by reducing knock and having the ECU advance timing.

jangy

Felt faster, for sure.

Vic55

I know for a fact that 100 octane helps out in Turbos. Where can I get some in the Orange County area?

Cylinder Head

iTrader: (1)

C16 Pays huge dividends with a big single.

BMWEATR

I think stock ecu will only ajust up to 93 oct stock, if you do a search i think you will find alot of discussing on this issue.

jangy

I know you asked me before. We have VP Racing here in SD county as well, so there must be something in OC as well. I'll check.

jangy

The max ECU setting is 93 octane, but that means it will adjust within a range and 93 is NOT max. It has indeed been discussed but only in theory. Nobody has shown the numbers. At some point, it becomes a waste. When?

BMWEATR

yes this is a guess but i would think around 100 oct(to be safe). i have seen tests were past 108 you start loosing power.

newton22

Well, you can crank up the boost on that 'yota.

ChicagoX

Without the commensurate tuning, it is a waste to run it straight.

The ECU can't advance enough timing to make full use of the resistance to knock, and the slower combustion will cost you power.

If you are experiencing a gain in going up in octane, then your ECU was pulling timing already.

Cali gas (91 oct) would benefit from a blend with 100 up to a point. (maybe 70:30 or so)

FWIW, most "octane boosters" only raise octane a fraction. A claimed 3 point increase will net you from 91 to 91.3.

Don't forget octane requirements drop with temperature as well.

03c4s

Jangy,

I believe the brake place we visited was selling race fuel, I thought I saw a banner.

jangy

Nice....that's for you, VIC55. It was at Porterfield. I think it was even VP Racing fuels.

VP-Pacific

Wildomar, CA
Phone: 951-674-9167
Fax: 951-674-7367
vppacific@aol.com

Technical assistance and local dealer information also can be obtained from the following VP distributors:

ARIZONA
Phoenix - Western States Petroleum
800-220-1353
Susie@westernstatespetroleum.com

CALIFORNIA
Bloomington - Merit Oil
909-877-2651

Corona - Downs Energy
888-810-3835
rons@downsenergy.com

Stockton - Van De Pol Enterprises
888-587-3835 or 209-944-9115
tom@vandepol.us

Vic55

By the time I get home I will have to get more fuel- I am not looking for drums that I can pour in at home but a local station in the area that I can do a quick blend on my 65. Thanks but I think there are a few stations in Orange county that sell the higher octane stuff- I thought you had a locator Jangy??

jangy

I know what you mean. i checked out their site. I have always gotten mine at a pump, not as a drum. Damn, I'm back at it again!!

Oh yeah, i finally heard back from my AMG guy. He retired so now he has forwarded me to another. We'll see what i can get.

jangy

Try these:

76 at gilbert and commonwealth in fullerton
Pit Shop, 700 W Chapman Ave Orange CA 92868 (714) 532-5900
Norco 76 Service, 2807 Hamner Ave. Norco (909) 734-2962
Union 76 at the corner of Commonwealth Avenue and Gilbert Street in the City of Fullerton
76 at La Paz and the I-5
Newhope and 1st in Santa Ana that sells VP Racing fuel
76 - Pico & Barrington, Santa Monica
shell in yorba linda right off the 91 yorba linda exit
Kern County
Fastrip Gas
8001 White Lane
Bakersfield 661.835.1490
100 Octane

Mesa Marin Raceway
SR 178 at SR 184
Bakersfield 661.366.5711
110 Octane

Willow Springs Motorsports Park
3500 75th Street West
Rosamond 661.256.2471
100, 110 Octane

Los Angeles County
Irwindale Speedway
1330 E. Liveoak Ave
Irwindale 626.358.1100
100, 110 Octane

Brentwood 76 Service
12037 San Vicente Blvd
Los Angeles 310.476.9496
100 Octane

Pico Ave. 76 Service
11675 Pico Blvd.
Los Angeles 310.479.9496
100 Octane

Arroyo Parkway 76
155 E. Glenarm
Pasadena 626.441.3392
100 Octane

Phillips Ranch 76
16 Village Loop Rd
Pomona 909.623.2429
100 Octane

Cosby Oil Co.
12902 E. Park St
Santa Fe Springs 562.946.4404
100, 110, 114, 118 Octane

South hills 76 Service
150 S. Citrus
West Covina 626.339.8018
100 Octane

Orange County
Mark's 76 Service
2043 Commonwealth
Fullerton 714.278.0986
100 Octane

Laguna Hills Auto Spa
25172 Cabot Road
Laguna Hills 949.770.8300
100, 110 Octane

Dave's 76 Service
619 E. La Habra Blvd.
La Habra 714.801.3918
100 Octane

Graham 76 Service
2690 San Miguel Blvd
Newport Beach 949.644.7151
100 Octane


San Diego County
Cosby Oil Co.
6220 Fairmount Ave.
San Diego 619.280.6884
100, 110, 114, 118 Octane


San Gabriel County
San Marino 76
2390 Huntington Drive
San Marino 626.286.6030
100 Octane


Riverside County
Mike's 76 Service
2807 Hamner Ave
Norco 909.734.2962
100 Octane

Ventura County
Agoura 76
28203 Dorothy Drive
Agoura Hills 818.991.6241
100 Octane

WayneE

Jangy, check this thread. It was posted a couple weeks ago in this forum. Here is my opinion/experience on race gas (or anything greater than 93): https://mbworld.org/forums/showpost....81&postcount=6

jangy

I understand what those that do not see the advantage in it are saying, but lets clarify a few things first. First, lets assume the car is completely stock. From what we have gathered, the US spec cars supposedly come tuned for 93 octane fuel (which I do no believe). Now, in California, we basically get 91 octane gas. Going by Consumers Report AND the rules governing octane claims, 91 octane simply means that a random sampling must have a MINIMUM recovered value of something near (but below) to 91. If all that is fact, then it means that we are driving cars tuned to 93 octane with gas that is AT BEST 91 octane, thus retarding timing most often. Given that, why would there not be some gains to be found by raising the octane to a true 93 anyway?
In all honesty, I've always thought the "little ECU reset trick" did nothing but take that retard history away, making the car assume it was running 93 octane again.
That is where the "mixing" of race fuel (unleaded) with regular supreme could potentially show gains over our typical daily runs, no?

Next, becomes the question of pushing the envelope. What really is the technical capability of the ECU to retard AND advance the timing? Agreed that the knock sensor is a reactive system, but why could the ECU not be programmed to advance timing by even a miniscule amount IF there were no "attack" rate? And if it can, by how much? That is the real question. I would assume that if we graphed power output on the "Y" axis and octane rating on the "X" axis that we would end up with a bell shaped curve. The question is where is that peak (93?) and how wide is that curve?

As I said before, I don't think MBs are tuned for 93 octane. Too many rural areas just do not have that quality of gas available and having compliants for knocking would be no fun. So, my assumption is that our cars are actually tuned for closer to 87 octane (which blows part of my aforementioned theory down).

Anyhow, that is enough rambling. I know for a fact that the 100 octane in my car was noticeable in speed and sound. How much? I dunno. Would an ECU reset have been just as good at the time? I dunno. Would mixing to say 93 octane have done just as well or even better? Don't know. These are the subtle questions I am asking. This is also why I have been searching for a way to advance my timing so that it will "want" higher octane.

We could run a quick test of the Air / Fuel ratio given varying octanes and see what the results are. Shouldn't we be able to see just when the ECU stopped compensating?

Fast55

Jangy,
I've got to go with what Wayne says. The only thing I've ever owned that really benefited from 93+ octane was my '70 SS 427 Chevelle. That was only because it wouldn't even run on anything less than 98 without destroying the motor. It purred at 108 octane due to 11:1 compression and lots of timing. Could it run on less octane? Sure, but it had to be adjusted for it, and power dropped off quickly as timing was removed (no automatic ECU adjustments in this car). I've got to believe that if your ECU is set to "base", you may see an increase in performance with 100 octane because the ECU was pulling timing from the car at 91. At 100 octane I'm sure you're getting everything the car can give, but it will not suffer at 93. Go much higher than that, and you will lose power, there's no question about it. The bottom line is that no car runs better with more octane that it's set up for, period. In fact, it should do it's best at the lowest octane it likes (IE: no timing retard @ WOT and max engine loading), typically, at it's torque peak. Could the car make more power with higher octane and more timing? probably, but it isn't going to be much of a difference, and you will start to lose driveability quickly. Flame on bench racers.

L8Apex

Vic,

There is a 76 in Newport Beach off of the 73 and Bonita Canyon that carries 100 octane. This is the same place where I fill my turbos and has much better prices than the one in Laguna Nigel.

jangy

I think I am seeing the ligh as I agree with you