JamE55

That is just crazy! So i guess it's safe to say if you do the heads it's at least around 30hp+ no? Keep us posted.

pshek

How about an ACP carbon fiber driveshaft for the drivetrain?

bleek

LOL!!! Yeah the heads should be more then 30+, my car is somewhere between 610-640hp at the crank, absolute minimum i expect to gain before we put the new tune on my car should be 60-70hp, i'm guessing with the new ecu tune and the timing all corrected and the A/F re-calibrated for the heads, i'll see 100+ more! But just straight bolt on as my car sits, forsure 60-70hp!

pshek, the drive shaft would definitley help, but right now i'm more concerned about axles, control arms, and just overall flexing in the chassis! We went for a pass in my car on the weekend, and the car was kicking in the traction control on my 2-3 gear shifts, with the amount of power we are making now, and having a 4000lb car, we are gonna see parts breaking if i can get the car to hook! I'll be building lots of tubular bolt in control arms now for the rear, and also replacing the shear bushings with solid ones that Finny has already encountered!

I'm not worried about power anymore, i just need to make sure the rest of the parts hold up. Here's a prediction! This summer at the track it won't be the guy making most power winning the race, it's the guy that can get down the track and not break!

Ok anyone wanna see my custom shafts?

chiromikey

you may have posted and i remember you talking about it, but how does your pulley compare with the others. i know the asp/hennessey pulley is larger than kleemann, evosport, or renntech...but what about yours. 549rwhp seems EXTREMELY healthy for only having headers, pulley, tb, and ecu.

bleek

The custom pulley i use adds a bit more then 4psi extra of boost, i think the ASP one adds around 3-3.5psi more. The unit i got built is huge, but the only reason i went that big is because i got SLR Coolers for my car.

549RWHP is serious, but you have to remember a K4 car is only different because of cams.

My friend's car, has a custom set of Kooks headers, that makes a world of difference, as our cars SUCK on the exhaust side, so with that, and a true custom exhaust with super high flow cats, he picked up huge gains there. Now also the throttle body is a custom billet piece we had made up! It's 93mm!!! We sent a company a stock TB so that they could use the same electronics, but made a bigger body, so it was a plug and play piece. That's why we had a custom inlet made up, killer sheet metal piece from Wilson Manifolds. We may take that piece have have a mould made to make a bunch of cast inlets, but haven't decided.

The ecu tune is the old tune off my car, and it's super rich, as the old tune was a very safe tune, we have yet to ever see a tune that was on the lean side, as these cars always run fat, unless you tune wrong or have vacuum leaks everywhere.

So when you look at it, it's not just regular headers, TB and Pulley, all custom pieces, but pieces that were built to work together. So add heads and some coolers and you have a guaranteed recipe for 700+hp!!!

I would not suggest a big pulley like the ASP or mine if you don't have a bigger cooling system, as power will drop faster then you can blink. Spinning the blower that fast causes so much heat your cooling system gets taxed way to fast to see gains.

Also another reason i went with such a big pulley is because of my heads, now we threw the pulley on my friends car just for ****s and giggles, but i proved how we can't get more then one run with a stock cooling system. But with my heads you also have to understand i can get away with more boost, as my combustion chambers in the heads are much more efficient then stock, so the more boost and compression will not put me into a detonation problem, where as on a stock head, you might start developing hot spots and start detonating.

I spent alot of time putting together my combination, as everything has to work together or it throws everything off, so when i see guys copy this and that, but they don't understand why it's done and there cars make no power, it's because they don't realize just buying a big pulley won't work right, or why just bolting in cams won't make the power they want. There's a reason why people develope packages.

Check these picks out, they are pics of a stock set of heads, just scroll through and see the difference in my race heads. I'll post side by side pics as well!

stevebez

What compression ratio you targeting ..?

bleek

To be honest with you, i never sat down and calculated what my compression ratio was gonna be with the new pulley. But the combustion chambers were not opened up much, so the ratio there is pretty much stock. I did not want to go too nuts, because i had to take into consideration head gasket failures as well!

Here's the sought after side by side pics of the heads, i only took pics of the exhaust side, but just look at how small those exhaust ports are!

Stay tooned!

NagsHD

damn those look beautiful!!!

Finny

Awesome job! Love those shiny chambers... Ha

Just pushing my luck here... Any shots of the stroker?

Thanks.

bleek

Thanks man, those heads got so much r&d in them, and it was worth every penny! Took a little longer then normal, but i was very limited as when your stuck using stock parts, you really have to take the time to learn how to re-shape things properly. With aftermarket heads, someone has already designed them for you, so the extra time spent has definitly paid off!

Finny sir, no pics of the stroker yet, as the bottom end parts are all here except the piston rings, but haven't begun the machine work yet on the block or even begun fitting anything, everything is just in boxes.

I had to switch gears for right now, as i see how much torque these cars make! My friends pano roof car made 549 rwhp, and checking his torque at the crank he's making 919 ft/lb at 3700rpm!!! I could care less about the HP number, but with his care making torque like that, and we still can add heads, SLR Coolers, Camshafts, and new tune, these cars will make well over 1000ft/lb's!!!!!!!!!!!

So for now i need to focus on the drivetrain, and making things stronger there, too many weak links, so making even more power with the stroker is the least of my concerns, cause right now with what these cars are doing last thing we need is more power!

I built control arms already, but now i need to source out axles(probably go with Strange, or Mark Williams) ring gears, bearings, also need to figure out chassis flex and so on, i predict by this summer we should see some 10.00sec passes, but only if we can hook and not twist the crap out of our cars! if i can figure that out, i think i can squeeze a 9.90 with my stroker motor, if not i break alot of parts trying! LOL!

bleek

Hey guys just had a chance to read over my post, and realized i had a brain fart! When i posted up my friends torque numbers i posted nm as ft-lbs! His car makes 680 ft-lbs at 3700 rpm, sorry for the mix up!

We are in the process of getting a brand new spray bar nitrous system built for our motors as well. I am looking at getting a 1/2" plate that sandwichs between the blower and the intake, running a fogger system would have been easier and allowed more tuning, but space limitation would have been a problem. I've sent out some phenolic spacers to Speed Tech Nitrous system for the task!

These guys are the best in the business, and they are gonna build the plate according to our blower psi, and other configurations. The kit will be fully adjustable, but this kit is more for my stroker set up, as that motor will have the heads o-ringed and also have the pistons rings moved lower.

When we get the kit finished, we might test it either on the pano roof car, or my car, can you imagine 700+hp and then hitting the spray, WOW!!! Let the games begin guys, this summer is gonna get rowdy!

Here's a quick pic of the brand new rockers straight from benz! Oh yeah check out the killer Pro-Mod system Speed Tech builds!

NitrogenBalance

That bottom picture is just awesome.

EUROTEK//AMG

..... WOW!!...just WOW!!..keep up the good work man!!! u make me want to get a E55K so bad now..

bleek

Nitro, you can say that again! That system there goes on a 2000-3000hp pro-mod car! Speed Tech is the absolute best in the business! The system they are gonna build is gonna be so trick, and i might even offer a package for everyone if people are interested.

I need to speak with them more, on how we can run indiviual nozzels for each runner, with the limited space we have, but i'll make it happen!

Thanks man! I've been doing this for a long time, and it still exciting and fun, so i keep plugging away! Just think about how we got my friend pano roof car to make 549rwhp! Just pulley, tb/inlet, headers/exhaust and old tune! Just that combo right there is gonna wreck shop, and we haven't done the heads, cams, or intercoolers yet!

There's some people out there wondering wht else i got up my sleeve, so check this out!

Pop Quiz, who wants to explain to everyone why i am gonna run one of these and guess how much more power it makes?

Rock

Looks like a racing vacuum pump. It's used for better ring seal and lower piston friction. I would guess 30-40hp with your application

Grumpy666

These crankcase vacuum pumps are only effective at very high RPMs - 6500+, and require the use of low-tension rings to see the gains. Depending on the application, they're worth 25+ HP. The more HP you make and the higher the RPM, the better they work. IMO, not very cost effective for a street application.

Jakpro1

Hey Bleek, just wondering if you read the post from Finny regarding the differential bolts snapping on him when he launched it hard at the track?

You pretty much have the strongest E55 on the planet, just wanted to get your input on this.

Seemed like when Finny finally got good hook, his diff bolts snapped like twigs. With your kind of hp....wow???

https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...light=carriage

bleek

Rock is the man! He knows his race car stuff, really is a great piece to have in any car. Thanks for chimming in!


Ahh yes, glad the grumpster jump in! Actually the Grump man is correct is a sense, in most natually aspirated combo's, these pumps are only effective at very high rpms! It makes the crank kinda float with the negative pressure! In pro-stock motors, or even nextel cup engines there worth 30-40hp!

Now my reasoning for the vacuum pump is just as important! With the increased cylinder pressures of turbo cars and blower cars it is vital to suck up all the blow by and also help out the rings as much as possible! In a forced induction car, vacuum pumps are a vital key to prevent detonation, and ring seal. Grumpy is correct in a N/A motor, and you get away with low tension rings, but in a forced induction set up with lower rpms, the vacuum pump is still a vital key!

So yes it is well worth the investment on a forced induction car 25-40hp gains for $350 or 10 hp gain on a $2000 air box.

Jak, working on that fix! Actually what happened in finny's car is the actual bushing that sheared which caused the bolt to snap from the slack! The bushing in the control arm is like a figure eight, so when that bushing see's excessive force, the bushing elongates to absorb the impact thus snapping the bolt. I am already getting the specs to machine some solid bushing to cure the problem!

bleek

To continue on from the previous discussion about the importance of vacuum pumps, i'll explain a few more things.

The reason why all race motors and many more street motors nowadays run vacuum pumps comes down to so many benefits!

With a motor having negative crankcase pressure, your bottom end spins with less resistance, thus Grumpy's theory of the high rpm horse power gains. But high rpm gains is only a very small aspect of the benefits of having negative crankcase pressure!

Of course with negative pressure, we are able to run low tension oil rings in out race motors, which causes less friction, thus freeing up hp!

Nowadays, more and more smart people are realizing the negative crankcase pressure is beneficial in all motors. Coming back to our forced induction engines, with the added cylinder pressures of a blower or turbo, our engines normally will produce more blow-by. With the extra blow-by it creates alot higher(or positive) crankcase pressure!

Are we lost yet? Look at it this way, there is pressure pushing on the top of the piston rings, and now with the added crankcase pressure the piston rings are getting pushed from the bottom. So now the oil rings aren't working properly and the cylinder walls are not getting scraped clean properly, so now guess what happens?

Oil gets into the combustion chamber and we get detonation! Bottom line is negative crankcase pressure is always beneficial, and the price of vacuum pumps today are alot cheaper then before. From the old converted ford smog pumps to the purpose built race pumps, real good bang for the buck! Plus it is also piece of mind for me to know i am eliminating as many detonation problems as i can, it's too late when you find out your motor is detonating, but for the couple hundred bucks, you get hp and piece of mind, is it worth the cost now?

Even on Grumpy's dual plane 6500 rpm BBC a vacuum pump would make hp and be beneficial!

NitrogenBalance

Bleek I can't agree with you more. I've been researching CC vacuum lately and the concept is so clear it surprises me why so few discuss or apply it to their vehicles. I've discussed this with mbenzman regarding his turbo prodject and he feels the same. Restricting downstroke due to pressure caused by ring blowby has got to be harder on the internals as well as HPs I would think. You've got pressures on both sides that the parts must strain through. Not to mention prevention of leaks. Now in my application the positive discplacent blower hits max boost right out of the hole. Pouring on the boost in such an agressive manor has got to build a good amount of CC pressure. I have a feeling this would really help the reciprocating internals rev up quicker and smoother. This is also kind of obvious when my car spit out it's dipstick the first dyno pull. My plans to increase boost only add to the fact that I feel I need to apply vacuum to my CC first in order to safely and effeicently do so. Another aspect of this that interests me greatly is venting the CC gases to either the exhaust or in my application the atmosphere which will prevent intake charge contamination. Keeping the CC gases and oil mist out of the intake charge has to be a good thing.

The only reason I can see it being ignored is maybe due to the fact that many have tried and failed with electric smog pumps or frowned at the avaible cost and rebuilding of racing pumps. This was what first pushed me from the idea when my car was first S/C'ed. However, I found a model from GZ motorsports that will yeild very decent vacuum at low speeds and it has special internals to deal with street use. The drain nipple on the catch can has tiny line that gravity/vacuum feeds oil mist through the pump to greater it's life span. I am 90% certain I will use this model at this point. My config would be using a vacuum relief valve as well limiting it to around 10-12in with a remote vac. gauge to monitor the pump's performance.

I would love to see what you come up with for a configuration as I've felt kinda alone on this one.

bleek

Nitro the biggest problem with that is some people have the attitude of "it's not important" or it's only applicable if this and that is happeneing! That's how you lose races!

I've spent countless hours trying to find everylast HP in my race motors, that i don't have the luxury or attitude of that's not needed. It's one thing to talk about how a N/A reacts to crank case pressure, we need to take more time and understand what's happening in a forced induction motor! Like we both said all that added pressure is only gonna cause all sorts of problems in the not so distant future!

No matter what, negative pressure in the crank case is a good thing, anything to allow the crank to spin for freely benefits at any rpm!

Nitro, moroso makes a good pump, as does product engineering, and aerospace components. The GZ one, and the Stef's one, and also the Ford motorsports one are all very similar, they are all based on the old ford smog pump. I think i'm gonna stick with the three vane moroso one, as it can only pull so much vacuum, and i don't need to add a relief valve(but i still will). I just like to start off with a purpose built pump then a redeigned one, but i really do like how GZ has taken it to the next level!

I just need to decide where i want to mount it and i'm all good! Remember about things being cost effective, let's just think. Headers $2000-$4000, 30-40hp gains. TB assembley $2000-$4000, 20-30hp gain. Airbox $2000-$3000, 10-15hp gain.

Vacuum pump $300-$500, 25-40hp gains, and we lessen the chance of detonation, Hmmmm...... you do the math! It's also a nice insurance policy, and you can also tell when your motor is getting tired with the amount of blow-by!

So now added all the go fast parts together and you got a rocket ship!

blackbenzz

ok, stupid question. How hard is it to install one of these pumps?

bleek

There not bad at all, but first we need to figure out where we want to mount it! Some people mount in the motor, some on the frame rail. I need to get my lazy *** under the front of the car and check where a good spot would be, and then i can make up a bracket.

Once i get bracket's made you the hardest part out of the way! Company's like Moroso, GZ and others already offer pullies and stuff, everything is fairly simple, it's just the mounting that can be a bit of a pain.

I'll see if i got a chance to make up a kit for everyone, or better yet, just give everyone the part numbers and you can order the parts themselves and i'll just fire out some mounting brackets!

Rock

Hey Bleek, awesome thread and thanks again for sharing all this great info.

Please clarify..................... At what modification stage do you think our 55 engines would benefit from this vacuum pump? I assume you believe that a benefit would be seen with even a larger SC belt and ECU tune? If that is the case, have you spoken to Cory or Brandon to get their thoughts.

bleek

Rock, from my point of view, anything beyond stock hp ratings i would consider one. I would even use one on a stock set up, but i'm sure some will argue that the factory would have put one on if there was such a concern, or something along those lines.

I just spoke to Brandon on Friday, we tend not to get too deep into certain thing people feel as extremes. For example, my heads, both him and Cory probably think how nuts i went is great, but most people will settle for extrude hone. So to answer your question, i haven't spoke to Brandon about the pump, i'll probably make up brackets, and offer the brackets to them as well. It's a hard sell sometimes, as some cars guys just don't understand what takes place inside there motors. I actually had someone tell me they couldn't feel the harmonic vibrations in there engine, so therefore they don't exsist! LOL!!! Plus from a business stand point where are you gonna make more money, headers&ecu or offering a vacuum pump you can buy from summit or jegs, no profit margin!