Kleeman vs ASP/Vrus80mm TB-Dyno Sheet
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
From: Orange County
2006 E55
Kleeman vs ASP/Vrus80mm TB-Dyno Sheet
The first phase of modification has been completed by Harman motive. Here is the dyno results of the Kleeman pulley with stock flash(blue line) and the second graph line is the ASP pulley, stock flash(red line), but also with the VRUS 80mm throttle body kit. Both pulls are the first pulls which of course are the highest yielding. After that especially with the ASP (due to heat build up) the horsepower drastically dropped off like 20hp, however the torque remained about the same.
So.....I need to seperate the cooling system from the supercharger next and will need a tune. I am thinking about Superchips if they guarantee they can take this A/F curve and make it better. I dont want some generic tune they did for Joe Blow!!!! On the 2 and 3rd pulls at 3500 we can see this dip that indicates that the ECU is possibly pulling timing.....only because the A/F is constant.
Also VRUS why the 504 code??? High Idle. Cleared it, and has not come back after 35 miles......but it usually takes about 40-60 for codes to reappear.
We also pulled the center resonator off only to discover that not only is it completly flow thru but it also has a balancing chamber......nice design so we immediately reinstalled it. We then cut the top off one of the rear muffler/resonators. NOW those may have some restriction......the internal design is very similar to a turbo muffler with an "S" chamber that is baffled and steel wool packed and then it dumps into a second chamber that has two.....2" baffled pipes that lead to the tips. These are the restriction.....if any. Other than the actual manifolds this is a well designed exhaust system that provides very good flow with out all the noise.
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...eveA-e55-1.jpg
So.....I need to seperate the cooling system from the supercharger next and will need a tune. I am thinking about Superchips if they guarantee they can take this A/F curve and make it better. I dont want some generic tune they did for Joe Blow!!!! On the 2 and 3rd pulls at 3500 we can see this dip that indicates that the ECU is possibly pulling timing.....only because the A/F is constant.
Also VRUS why the 504 code??? High Idle. Cleared it, and has not come back after 35 miles......but it usually takes about 40-60 for codes to reappear.
We also pulled the center resonator off only to discover that not only is it completly flow thru but it also has a balancing chamber......nice design so we immediately reinstalled it. We then cut the top off one of the rear muffler/resonators. NOW those may have some restriction......the internal design is very similar to a turbo muffler with an "S" chamber that is baffled and steel wool packed and then it dumps into a second chamber that has two.....2" baffled pipes that lead to the tips. These are the restriction.....if any. Other than the actual manifolds this is a well designed exhaust system that provides very good flow with out all the noise.
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...eveA-e55-1.jpg
Last edited by sgtstanko; Feb 17, 2007 at 04:32 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,436
Likes: 6
300ce
The first phase of modification has been completed by Harman motive. Here is the dyno results of the Kleeman pulley with stock flash(blue line) and the second graph line is the ASP pulley, stock flash(red line), but also with the VRUS 80mm throttle body kit. Both pulls are the first pulls which of course are the highest yielding. After that especially with the ASP (due to heat build up) the horsepower drastically dropped off like 20hp, however the torque remained about the same.
So.....I need to seperate the cooling system from the supercharger next and will need a tune. I am thinking about Superchips if they guarantee they can take this A/F curve and make it better. I dont want some generic tune they did for Joe Blow!!!! On the 2 and 3rd pulls at 3500 we can see this dip that indicates that the ECU is possibly pulling timing.....only because the A/F is constant.
Also VRUS why the 504 code??? High Idle. Cleared it, and has not come back after 35 miles......but it usually takes about 40-60 for codes to reappear.
We also pulled the center resonator off only to discover that not only is it completly flow thru but it also has a balancing chamber......nice design so we immediately reinstalled it. We then cut the top off one of the rear muffler/resonators. NOW those may have some restriction......the internal design is very similar to a turbo muffler with an "S" chamber that is baffled and steel wool packed and then it dumps into a second chamber that has two.....2" baffled pipes that lead to the tips. These are the restriction.....if any. Other than the actual manifolds this is a well designed exhaust system that provides very good flow with out all the noise.
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...eveA-e55-1.jpg
So.....I need to seperate the cooling system from the supercharger next and will need a tune. I am thinking about Superchips if they guarantee they can take this A/F curve and make it better. I dont want some generic tune they did for Joe Blow!!!! On the 2 and 3rd pulls at 3500 we can see this dip that indicates that the ECU is possibly pulling timing.....only because the A/F is constant.
Also VRUS why the 504 code??? High Idle. Cleared it, and has not come back after 35 miles......but it usually takes about 40-60 for codes to reappear.
We also pulled the center resonator off only to discover that not only is it completly flow thru but it also has a balancing chamber......nice design so we immediately reinstalled it. We then cut the top off one of the rear muffler/resonators. NOW those may have some restriction......the internal design is very similar to a turbo muffler with an "S" chamber that is baffled and steel wool packed and then it dumps into a second chamber that has two.....2" baffled pipes that lead to the tips. These are the restriction.....if any. Other than the actual manifolds this is a well designed exhaust system that provides very good flow with out all the noise.
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...eveA-e55-1.jpg
..............this is what I was trying to point out previously. I expected you to run lean, but your car was quite rich. I interpreted that to mean that you were safe since your HP and torque figures were good. As you have discovered, you ECU is sensing the high boost and pulling timming. I have done all this before. I have Kleemann K4 with Hennessey pulley. You need your Kleemann K2/K4 program back if you are going to do additional mods besides pulley alone.
.........I had K4 with Hennessey pulley. All was well. I got the dreaded flash, then re-dynoed my car and had the same problem. My car first ran very lean then became very rich durring the same dyno pull. Your computer maybe adapting a bit better than mine did but the problem is the same.
Ted
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
From: Orange County
2006 E55
..............this is what I was trying to point out previously. I expected you to run lean, but your car was quite rich. I interpreted that to mean that you were safe since your HP and torque figures were good. As you have discovered, you ECU is sensing the high boost and pulling timming. I have done all this before. I have Kleemann K4 with Hennessey pulley. You need your Kleemann K2/K4 program back if you are going to do additional mods besides pulley alone.
.........I had K4 with Hennessey pulley. All was well. I got the dreaded flash, then re-dynoed my car and had the same problem. My car first ran very lean then became very rich durring the same dyno pull. Your computer maybe adapting a bit better than mine did but the problem is the same.
Ted
.........I had K4 with Hennessey pulley. All was well. I got the dreaded flash, then re-dynoed my car and had the same problem. My car first ran very lean then became very rich durring the same dyno pull. Your computer maybe adapting a bit better than mine did but the problem is the same.
Ted
Thanks Steve
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,436
Likes: 6
300ce
Ted thanks for the input..............so you experienced the same approx 3500rpm dip. Harman felt that was the reason for the dip, that the ECU was seeing more boost and heat and pulling timing out. So you went back to the Kleeman tune......obviously more aggressive than the K1....... and did that eliminate the"power pull back"? Did the A/F look better as well after the reflash of the Kleeman tune?
Thanks Steve
Thanks Steve
Ted
Last edited by Ted Baldwin; Feb 17, 2007 at 12:16 PM.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
From: Orange County
2006 E55
..............Yes it did. Talk to Cory. He knows EVERYTHING about this. I don't know how he will react to the ASP pulley. You may wish to keep that to yourself. But if you had a Kleemann program that was lost during the recall, Kleemann offers you a re-install of your program and Cory(best guy in tunning business) will work with you to get the bugs worked out.
Ted
Ted
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
From: Orange County
2006 E55
The first phase of modification has been completed by Harman motive. Here is the dyno results of the Kleeman pulley with stock flash(blue line) and the second graph line is the ASP pulley, stock flash(red line), but also with the VRUS 80mm throttle body kit. Both pulls are the first pulls which of course are the highest yielding. After that especially with the ASP (due to heat build up) the horsepower drastically dropped off like 20hp, however the torque remained about the same.
So.....I need to seperate the cooling system from the supercharger next and will need a tune. I am thinking about Superchips if they guarantee they can take this A/F curve and make it better. I dont want some generic tune they did for Joe Blow!!!! On the 2 and 3rd pulls at 3500 we can see this dip that indicates that the ECU is possibly pulling timing.....only because the A/F is constant.
Also VRUS why the 504 code??? High Idle. Cleared it, and has not come back after 35 miles......but it usually takes about 40-60 for codes to reappear.
We also pulled the center resonator off only to discover that not only is it completly flow thru but it also has a balancing chamber......nice design so we immediately reinstalled it. We then cut the top off one of the rear muffler/resonators. NOW those may have some restriction......the internal design is very similar to a turbo muffler with an "S" chamber that is baffled and steel wool packed and then it dumps into a second chamber that has two.....2" baffled pipes that lead to the tips. These are the restriction.....if any. Other than the actual manifolds this is a well designed exhaust system that provides very good flow with out all the noise.
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...eveA-e55-1.jpg
So.....I need to seperate the cooling system from the supercharger next and will need a tune. I am thinking about Superchips if they guarantee they can take this A/F curve and make it better. I dont want some generic tune they did for Joe Blow!!!! On the 2 and 3rd pulls at 3500 we can see this dip that indicates that the ECU is possibly pulling timing.....only because the A/F is constant.
Also VRUS why the 504 code??? High Idle. Cleared it, and has not come back after 35 miles......but it usually takes about 40-60 for codes to reappear.
We also pulled the center resonator off only to discover that not only is it completly flow thru but it also has a balancing chamber......nice design so we immediately reinstalled it. We then cut the top off one of the rear muffler/resonators. NOW those may have some restriction......the internal design is very similar to a turbo muffler with an "S" chamber that is baffled and steel wool packed and then it dumps into a second chamber that has two.....2" baffled pipes that lead to the tips. These are the restriction.....if any. Other than the actual manifolds this is a well designed exhaust system that provides very good flow with out all the noise.
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...eveA-e55-1.jpg
I would not mess with the rear mufflers!!! I cut them open and welded a "Y" in each one.......the muffler shell is so thin it is almost impossible to reweld them together. The sound and deep resonance was somewhat intolerable for me. I found a muffler shop in LA that had stock take offs in stock.......thank God!!! I have the stock mufflers back on but I did have the center resonator removed and an "X" pipe section installed in its place. Not much louder than stock now. SOTP seems good but a rerun on the dyno will tell.
I have 150 miles on it since the changes and the 504 code (high idle) seems to be gone.
Trending Topics
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
10 Most Reliable Mercedes-Benz Models You Can Buy Used
Verdad Gallardo
Banned
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,797
Likes: 2
From: Richmond Hill, Ontario
2003 E55 AMG
Stephen,
I should have mentioned this but I figured the MB tech should know..
When you do the TB install, make sure the battery is disconnected during install (this will force the ECU to remap all the driver adaptable settings).. Also, after the install is completed and BEFORE you start the car, turn the key to Position 2 (but dont start it).. Leave it there for 90sec.. This allows the ECU to reset a bunch of info including the TB.
This is most likely why you had the high idle code.
Also, dont bother going onto the dyno until you've put at least 150-200miles on the car because that is how long it takes before the ECU will relearn.
I should have mentioned this but I figured the MB tech should know..
When you do the TB install, make sure the battery is disconnected during install (this will force the ECU to remap all the driver adaptable settings).. Also, after the install is completed and BEFORE you start the car, turn the key to Position 2 (but dont start it).. Leave it there for 90sec.. This allows the ECU to reset a bunch of info including the TB.
This is most likely why you had the high idle code.
Also, dont bother going onto the dyno until you've put at least 150-200miles on the car because that is how long it takes before the ECU will relearn.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,042
Likes: 0
From: So.Ca.
E55
Stephen,
I should have mentioned this but I figured the MB tech should know..
When you do the TB install, make sure the battery is disconnected during install (this will force the ECU to remap all the driver adaptable settings).. Also, after the install is completed and BEFORE you start the car, turn the key to Position 2 (but dont start it).. Leave it there for 90sec.. This allows the ECU to reset a bunch of info including the TB.
This is most likely why you had the high idle code.
Also, dont bother going onto the dyno until you've put at least 150-200miles on the car because that is how long it takes before the ECU will relearn.
I should have mentioned this but I figured the MB tech should know..
When you do the TB install, make sure the battery is disconnected during install (this will force the ECU to remap all the driver adaptable settings).. Also, after the install is completed and BEFORE you start the car, turn the key to Position 2 (but dont start it).. Leave it there for 90sec.. This allows the ECU to reset a bunch of info including the TB.
This is most likely why you had the high idle code.
Also, dont bother going onto the dyno until you've put at least 150-200miles on the car because that is how long it takes before the ECU will relearn.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
From: Orange County
2006 E55
Stephen,
I should have mentioned this but I figured the MB tech should know..
When you do the TB install, make sure the battery is disconnected during install (this will force the ECU to remap all the driver adaptable settings).. Also, after the install is completed and BEFORE you start the car, turn the key to Position 2 (but dont start it).. Leave it there for 90sec.. This allows the ECU to reset a bunch of info including the TB.
This is most likely why you had the high idle code.
Also, dont bother going onto the dyno until you've put at least 150-200miles on the car because that is how long it takes before the ECU will relearn.
I should have mentioned this but I figured the MB tech should know..
When you do the TB install, make sure the battery is disconnected during install (this will force the ECU to remap all the driver adaptable settings).. Also, after the install is completed and BEFORE you start the car, turn the key to Position 2 (but dont start it).. Leave it there for 90sec.. This allows the ECU to reset a bunch of info including the TB.
This is most likely why you had the high idle code.
Also, dont bother going onto the dyno until you've put at least 150-200miles on the car because that is how long it takes before the ECU will relearn.
Banned
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,797
Likes: 2
From: Richmond Hill, Ontario
2003 E55 AMG
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,174
Likes: 19
From: London, UK
No longer stock '06 E55, A3 3.2 Quattro, GLE 400d, R107 280SL, Golf Polo
I have ASP and will be getting VRTB and VRAB soon ... My ECU is stock....
Any thoughts on how I should have it tuned. Also is it absolutely necesary since we are running rich anyway maybe it will be OK with stock tune?
Any thoughts on how I should have it tuned. Also is it absolutely necesary since we are running rich anyway maybe it will be OK with stock tune?
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
From: Orange County
2006 E55
In my opinion (and its a bit limited in s/c experience) I would make the mods and dyno it while taking A/F readings.....then you'll know. I have contacted Kleeman to see if I can send them back my ECU. Then redyno and see what the changes really are and improvements, if any. I followed VRUS suggestions to clear and reset the ECU. Something I have already noticed is the traction control is much more aggressive then ever before grabbing the engine by the *****.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
From: Orange County
2006 E55
Well here it is.......a more consistent dyno pull with the stock flsh rather than the K2. It looks like the K1 would have been the better choice. Less fuel and probably less timing. Look at the A/F....... the K2 is WAY too rich compared to stock tune...it is more designed for their header set up....but thats how they add more timing safely by adding more fuel!
This is why I feel the violent surging.....look at the graph and power goes in and out.
Note the RPM are now going much further out......it hit 196mph on the dyno.
COMMENTS!!
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...5_k2vstock.jpg
This is why I feel the violent surging.....look at the graph and power goes in and out.
Note the RPM are now going much further out......it hit 196mph on the dyno.
COMMENTS!!
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...5_k2vstock.jpg
Last edited by sgtstanko; Mar 13, 2007 at 01:12 AM.
