E63 Owners Unite!
03-21-2007, 09:27 PM
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E63 Owners Unite!
Traded my 03 E55 for an 07 E63 about 5 months ago.
After 5 months I have decided that for STREET use, I like the E63 better than the E55. More entertaining, better trannsmission, like the 7 gears. Overall a very good car.
HOWEVER, with some very minor tweaks, mostly in software, I think it could be much more entertaining and sporty. So I wrote a letter to Mercedes offering helpful suggestions. In a fairly "we know better than you" Teutonic way, they sent me a response that can best be characterized as a "brush off".
Perhaps they need to hear from a few more "enthusiasts" to see the light.
My letter is appended below. If any of these issues/suggestions resonate with you, you may wish to send Merceded your suggestions for improvement. Maybe if enough people suggest the same improvements, they will listen and improve the 08 model, or better still backfit updated software to the 07's.
Joe
I’d like to provide some feedback on these cars, so perhaps they can be further improved.
Let me be clear. I have been happy with both cars, but since I like the cars so much, I wanted to provide some constructive feedback, so they can be made even better. Hence my note to you.
The E55 was a monster (just like the early commercial!). It was the “bad boy” among fast 4-door cars. Certainly a trend-setter, and a very gutsy move on the part of Mercedes. I was delighted that Mercedes had the guts to build this car. (By the way, I consider myself to be a “car guy”, so more horsepower/torque/performance is always better. I currently own a 2006 Corvette Z06, Porsche TT, Ferrari 575M, and Aston Martin DB9). The E55 was an incredible car, which exceeded my expectations. Yes, it was a bit rough around the edges, but I feel that this was entirely consistent with its image and market position, and gave the car a certain personality/character. I think is was a very good compromise between comfort and performance. (As an aside, I had previously owned a 2002 BMW M5, which I returned to them after only 6 months, because it was a 4-seater pretending to be a sports car – so it was a lousy sports car (too big and heavy), and a lousy sedan (too jerky/edgy)).
The E63 is a very good car. Great new engine. Improved handling/ride. Better transmission. On an objective basis, it an improvement over the E55. However, the improvements have removed quite a lot of the “personality/character” from the car. It is so “good” that it has picked up “Lexus-like” qualities ie. excellent cars – without feeling/character. (I also own a Lexus Coupe, but I got bored by it very quickly and passed that to my wife who appreciates the remarkable smoothness/reliability, and is not bored by its lack of character.)
I think the E63, can be made much more interesting and sporting with some very minor tweaks, as outlined below.
Engine sound: From outside the engine sounds fantastic. From inside it is too subdued for this class of high performance car. More engine sound, particularly under acceleration should be let into the passenger compartment. (I believe that Jaguar has used a new technique in its latest models that “pipes-in’ selective engine sounds into the cabin, and as you have probably read, gotten very good public reaction to this).
Transmission: The 7 speed has very good gear ratios. The paddles are much improved. The software, however, has far too many “nannies” associated with it. In manual mode, it should shift when I tell it to shift (up or down) and should do so immediately. It should also permit multiple simultaneous downshifts eg. 5-4-3-2 just by going click, click, click (as quickly as that). The software prevents this from happening until IT decides that IT is good and ready, and then still only allows a one gear downshift at a time. (I am aware that in Sport and Comfort mode, it can downshift multiple ratios all at once simply by holding the paddles down, so clearly it is possible to do). Upshifts should be faster, crisper and harder/more positive. (In fact, Mercedes shoul consider enabling a fourth setting on the transmission button for “super sport” which accesses a more aggressive program. As you know, both BMW and Ferrari have many more settings/options on their shift programs – I know their transmissions are auto-manuals, but the software should be much simpler for a pure automatic).
In manual mode, and in first gear, the software intervenes far too soon at the top of first gear, so that an early rev limiter kicks in, and does so very obtrusively/violently. This cannot be good for the drivetrain, and certainly is not much fun. I would suggest changing the software so that in first gear only, it permist the rpm to build all the way to redline, and if the driver has not already shifted, then automatically shift to second at 7000 rpm rather than hitting the rev limiter. While that removes some of the control from the driver, I believe that it would enhance the overall experience, would be quicker, and probably easier on the drivetrain. The other gears are OK, since there is more time for the driver to react for those.
In sport mode, the transmission defaults back to second gear starts, after each engine start cycle, and then “re-learns” the first gear starts only after the car has been driven briskly (over 3000 rpm in first). This is completely counter-intuitive , and inappropriate. If I wanted to start off in second gear, I would have engaged the comfort mode!!
The good news, is that all these opportunities for improvement can be readily addressed with simple software changes, and perhaps have already been tweaked in the newer builds. I would be quite willing to be a guinea pig for software enhancement experiments if you wanted to do real consumer road tests on these.
By the way, a very “sporty” enhancement, which has no impact on performance, but which gives the driver the “illusion” of greater sportiness, is blipping the throttle on downshifts. My Aston Martin ZF 6 speed auto has this, and I believe that Jaguar also does, and it sounds terrific.
So in summary, this already very good car, with some more engine sound inside the car, and a simple remapping of transmission software, could be transformed from a very good car to an excellent, sportier, car, consistent with its position in the Mercedes line-up. (And maybe could win more shoot-outs with the M5 in the magazine tests also!)
On the “soft side” of things, the lack of an automatic seat retraction function on the driver seats is a big let down. This type of car should permit the seats to automatically move back when the door is opened, and move forward when the key is put back in the key switch. Having to manually move the seats back is an unnecessary step backwards . (Certainly all the hardware and electronics is already in place to do this automatically). My relatively cheap Corvette does this, and it is great.
The fit and finish in the car is generally very good, as one would expect in this class of car. However, the new plastic trim surrounding the base of the front seats is horrible (cheap). It would be out of place in a Chev Cavalier, never mind a Mercedes! It is nearly impossible to keep clean because its finish is so rough. Even Armor All was not enough to smooth it out.
Lastly, I love the perforated, ventilated seats, and in fact, beyond the raw performance, this feature was one of the key selling points for me. However, I would like to see a more “aggressive” and if necessary noisier setting on the fan speeds for these, so that it significantly increases the ventilation/cooling capacity.
In summary, a great series of cars. I am very glad I chose them. With minor changes (faster, firmer, and on-demand shifting), these can be made into superb, sportier cars.
I would very much appreciate it if you could pass my constructive comments/suggestions back to the engineers/factory, so the next Mercedes I buy, will be better still.
After 5 months I have decided that for STREET use, I like the E63 better than the E55. More entertaining, better trannsmission, like the 7 gears. Overall a very good car.
HOWEVER, with some very minor tweaks, mostly in software, I think it could be much more entertaining and sporty. So I wrote a letter to Mercedes offering helpful suggestions. In a fairly "we know better than you" Teutonic way, they sent me a response that can best be characterized as a "brush off".
Perhaps they need to hear from a few more "enthusiasts" to see the light.
My letter is appended below. If any of these issues/suggestions resonate with you, you may wish to send Merceded your suggestions for improvement. Maybe if enough people suggest the same improvements, they will listen and improve the 08 model, or better still backfit updated software to the 07's.
Joe
I’d like to provide some feedback on these cars, so perhaps they can be further improved.
Let me be clear. I have been happy with both cars, but since I like the cars so much, I wanted to provide some constructive feedback, so they can be made even better. Hence my note to you.
The E55 was a monster (just like the early commercial!). It was the “bad boy” among fast 4-door cars. Certainly a trend-setter, and a very gutsy move on the part of Mercedes. I was delighted that Mercedes had the guts to build this car. (By the way, I consider myself to be a “car guy”, so more horsepower/torque/performance is always better. I currently own a 2006 Corvette Z06, Porsche TT, Ferrari 575M, and Aston Martin DB9). The E55 was an incredible car, which exceeded my expectations. Yes, it was a bit rough around the edges, but I feel that this was entirely consistent with its image and market position, and gave the car a certain personality/character. I think is was a very good compromise between comfort and performance. (As an aside, I had previously owned a 2002 BMW M5, which I returned to them after only 6 months, because it was a 4-seater pretending to be a sports car – so it was a lousy sports car (too big and heavy), and a lousy sedan (too jerky/edgy)).
The E63 is a very good car. Great new engine. Improved handling/ride. Better transmission. On an objective basis, it an improvement over the E55. However, the improvements have removed quite a lot of the “personality/character” from the car. It is so “good” that it has picked up “Lexus-like” qualities ie. excellent cars – without feeling/character. (I also own a Lexus Coupe, but I got bored by it very quickly and passed that to my wife who appreciates the remarkable smoothness/reliability, and is not bored by its lack of character.)
I think the E63, can be made much more interesting and sporting with some very minor tweaks, as outlined below.
Engine sound: From outside the engine sounds fantastic. From inside it is too subdued for this class of high performance car. More engine sound, particularly under acceleration should be let into the passenger compartment. (I believe that Jaguar has used a new technique in its latest models that “pipes-in’ selective engine sounds into the cabin, and as you have probably read, gotten very good public reaction to this).
Transmission: The 7 speed has very good gear ratios. The paddles are much improved. The software, however, has far too many “nannies” associated with it. In manual mode, it should shift when I tell it to shift (up or down) and should do so immediately. It should also permit multiple simultaneous downshifts eg. 5-4-3-2 just by going click, click, click (as quickly as that). The software prevents this from happening until IT decides that IT is good and ready, and then still only allows a one gear downshift at a time. (I am aware that in Sport and Comfort mode, it can downshift multiple ratios all at once simply by holding the paddles down, so clearly it is possible to do). Upshifts should be faster, crisper and harder/more positive. (In fact, Mercedes shoul consider enabling a fourth setting on the transmission button for “super sport” which accesses a more aggressive program. As you know, both BMW and Ferrari have many more settings/options on their shift programs – I know their transmissions are auto-manuals, but the software should be much simpler for a pure automatic).
In manual mode, and in first gear, the software intervenes far too soon at the top of first gear, so that an early rev limiter kicks in, and does so very obtrusively/violently. This cannot be good for the drivetrain, and certainly is not much fun. I would suggest changing the software so that in first gear only, it permist the rpm to build all the way to redline, and if the driver has not already shifted, then automatically shift to second at 7000 rpm rather than hitting the rev limiter. While that removes some of the control from the driver, I believe that it would enhance the overall experience, would be quicker, and probably easier on the drivetrain. The other gears are OK, since there is more time for the driver to react for those.
In sport mode, the transmission defaults back to second gear starts, after each engine start cycle, and then “re-learns” the first gear starts only after the car has been driven briskly (over 3000 rpm in first). This is completely counter-intuitive , and inappropriate. If I wanted to start off in second gear, I would have engaged the comfort mode!!
The good news, is that all these opportunities for improvement can be readily addressed with simple software changes, and perhaps have already been tweaked in the newer builds. I would be quite willing to be a guinea pig for software enhancement experiments if you wanted to do real consumer road tests on these.
By the way, a very “sporty” enhancement, which has no impact on performance, but which gives the driver the “illusion” of greater sportiness, is blipping the throttle on downshifts. My Aston Martin ZF 6 speed auto has this, and I believe that Jaguar also does, and it sounds terrific.
So in summary, this already very good car, with some more engine sound inside the car, and a simple remapping of transmission software, could be transformed from a very good car to an excellent, sportier, car, consistent with its position in the Mercedes line-up. (And maybe could win more shoot-outs with the M5 in the magazine tests also!)
On the “soft side” of things, the lack of an automatic seat retraction function on the driver seats is a big let down. This type of car should permit the seats to automatically move back when the door is opened, and move forward when the key is put back in the key switch. Having to manually move the seats back is an unnecessary step backwards . (Certainly all the hardware and electronics is already in place to do this automatically). My relatively cheap Corvette does this, and it is great.
The fit and finish in the car is generally very good, as one would expect in this class of car. However, the new plastic trim surrounding the base of the front seats is horrible (cheap). It would be out of place in a Chev Cavalier, never mind a Mercedes! It is nearly impossible to keep clean because its finish is so rough. Even Armor All was not enough to smooth it out.
Lastly, I love the perforated, ventilated seats, and in fact, beyond the raw performance, this feature was one of the key selling points for me. However, I would like to see a more “aggressive” and if necessary noisier setting on the fan speeds for these, so that it significantly increases the ventilation/cooling capacity.
In summary, a great series of cars. I am very glad I chose them. With minor changes (faster, firmer, and on-demand shifting), these can be made into superb, sportier cars.
I would very much appreciate it if you could pass my constructive comments/suggestions back to the engineers/factory, so the next Mercedes I buy, will be better still.
03-21-2007, 09:44 PM
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2009 C63 Black on Black
Best of luck to you E63Joe
I don't know if the Teutonic AMG folks will ever listen to any of us. Enjoy the E63 and best of luck on trying to persuade those "Storm Troopers" to listen!
03-21-2007, 09:52 PM
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03-22-2007, 08:03 AM
#8
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03-22-2007, 08:52 AM
#9
MBWorld Fanatic!
I think there is very little chance they listen to this. They have their performance studio for personalisation and will leave it at that. I am surprised they did not refer you to them.
Having said so your changes are particulary small - i.e. "fine tuning" rather than than "radical redesign" ... either of which will be massively costly to them.
Thats what the modding co's are for ...
BTW I disagree on the 7sp gear ratios... think they should be closer and have one overdrive rather than 2. To me its a effectively a 6sp.
So there already what should they do change it to suit me or keep it same for you? - if we differ on the tranny how many others will have very different ideas ... to get a concensus will be very tough indeed .. and I think they spend ALOT of their time trying to find the middle ground given their target market.
At least they replied to your letter - I have yet to receive any response to emails I have sent to the amg-mercedes website.
Having said so your changes are particulary small - i.e. "fine tuning" rather than than "radical redesign" ... either of which will be massively costly to them.
Thats what the modding co's are for ...
BTW I disagree on the 7sp gear ratios... think they should be closer and have one overdrive rather than 2. To me its a effectively a 6sp.
So there already what should they do change it to suit me or keep it same for you? - if we differ on the tranny how many others will have very different ideas ... to get a concensus will be very tough indeed .. and I think they spend ALOT of their time trying to find the middle ground given their target market.
At least they replied to your letter - I have yet to receive any response to emails I have sent to the amg-mercedes website.
Last edited by stevebez; 03-22-2007 at 08:57 AM.
