New M3 faster than new M5?
#26
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2003 E55
I
What I'm trying to say is: Separate between track (autocross and drag strip) and day-to-day driving. While M3 may shine on track (it may even overwhelm CLK63 Black), it leaves the owner w/ nothing on day-to-day driving - low torque and HP that is only accessible near red-line. What kind of fun is that?
![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
What I'm trying to say is: Separate between track (autocross and drag strip) and day-to-day driving. While M3 may shine on track (it may even overwhelm CLK63 Black), it leaves the owner w/ nothing on day-to-day driving - low torque and HP that is only accessible near red-line. What kind of fun is that?
![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
And that, my friend, is exactly why we all own supercharged V8s!
#27
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350WHP and 390RWTQ with Procede ECU, new catback exhaust , delete secondary cats. Its called stage 1.
it runs 13.0 and 110 trap speed, according to Edmunds. According to Vishnu.. it can run up to 112 trap speed, but yet to seen on a real 1/4 track.
Edmunds the same people that got 4.8 and 13.4 out of the stock 335i.
so.. it will take a few more mods to get the 335i to kill the M3.
The 335i will suffer from heat issues just like our 55k, c32k engines.. just read the article on Edmunds vs the new G37.
Other on the bimmer boards are closely monitoring the engine temps for limp mode. There are installing a oil cooler at the dealer to help, but I with additional mods.. heat will always be a problem.
If I had the money.. I would take the M3.. looks way better. Who cares if a modded 335i can equal straightline performace.. the M3 has always been about the whole package.
it runs 13.0 and 110 trap speed, according to Edmunds. According to Vishnu.. it can run up to 112 trap speed, but yet to seen on a real 1/4 track.
Edmunds the same people that got 4.8 and 13.4 out of the stock 335i.
so.. it will take a few more mods to get the 335i to kill the M3.
The 335i will suffer from heat issues just like our 55k, c32k engines.. just read the article on Edmunds vs the new G37.
Other on the bimmer boards are closely monitoring the engine temps for limp mode. There are installing a oil cooler at the dealer to help, but I with additional mods.. heat will always be a problem.
If I had the money.. I would take the M3.. looks way better. Who cares if a modded 335i can equal straightline performace.. the M3 has always been about the whole package.
BMW now puts the additional oil cooler on the automatic cars and they seem to be running just fine. Edmunds had an early production auto for the record .
335 is a great car and the M3 is likely going to be outstanding. 4 Door m3 sounds very tempting especially if MB de-tunes the C63 to have 410 hp.
#28
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rflow on this board has one, ran 13.2 @ 104 stock and 12.6 @ 109 with the tune and cat-back:
http://www.dragtimes.com/BMW-335i-Timeslip-10490.html
http://www.dragtimes.com/BMW-335i-Timeslip-11392.html
I saw some video of a stock M3 and 335i running on the highway and it was dead even.... Any confirmation of a 4 door m3 yet?
http://www.dragtimes.com/BMW-335i-Timeslip-10490.html
http://www.dragtimes.com/BMW-335i-Timeslip-11392.html
I saw some video of a stock M3 and 335i running on the highway and it was dead even.... Any confirmation of a 4 door m3 yet?
btw: I'm refering to a new M3, not the E46.. just to clarify
#29
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The only cars with cooling issues are the automatic cars. The early production autos use one cooler for engine oil and for the transmission. This system did not work with track use so they go into limp home mode when the temps get to high. I have not see any figures on IAT reading but smgc32 has his C32 going back to stock and is replacing it with a 335i. Lord knows he will have buckets of data on the 335i being put to work at the track.
BMW now puts the additional oil cooler on the automatic cars and they seem to be running just fine. Edmunds had an early production auto for the record .
335 is a great car and the M3 is likely going to be outstanding. 4 Door m3 sounds very tempting especially if MB de-tunes the C63 to have 410 hp.
BMW now puts the additional oil cooler on the automatic cars and they seem to be running just fine. Edmunds had an early production auto for the record .
335 is a great car and the M3 is likely going to be outstanding. 4 Door m3 sounds very tempting especially if MB de-tunes the C63 to have 410 hp.
let's wait until the summer months JULY and AUG to really find out if the 335 can take additional boost without heat loss.
every FI car will require some sort of cooling mod... maybe not on Stage 1, but going beyond Stage 1.. there is no choice.
Auto or Manual...
#30
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E-ZGO 53hp., 1999 E 430 sport, 2004 E 55, 2008 Tahoe LTZ on 24"s
Got Rice
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https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...ht=Lexus+IS500
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Thats the competition.
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#31
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'03 G500, '13 G63, '17 GLS63,
The M3 will not undercut the M5. The M3 is a 2-door with a 2+2 configuration. The M5 is a 4-door sedan with seating for 5. The same situation occured with the previous generation.
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'09 911 C4S
#34
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............I don't think MB quite knows what to do with the with the CLK. It is built on a C-class platform, but is much more expensive than a C-class. Yet, the AMG version doesn't quite deliver like the M6 and the regular CLK has been overtaken by the new BMW 335. To make matters worse, the fixed roof version of the CLK63 is not even available in the US. What a screw up. They don't know what to do with it. I have always thought that the CLK has been MB's chance to have a serious sporst car. I think MB should forget about the M3 and pump the CLK63 coupe full of steroids and sell it as a competitor to the M6 in the same price range. Fill it up with luxury features and finally get serious with the CLK. I know this will affect sales of the CL, but no one buying a CL is looking for sports car. The CLK63 black series is an interesting gimick that doesn't really solve the problem. Is the CLK63 a serious luxury sportsa car ala M6, or just an over priced after thought by Mercedes that will be embarrassed on the street and on the track by a much less expensive M3?
Ted
#35
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1989 Toyota Tercel EZ - dyno'd @ 70whp/77wtq
CLK63 black will have much worse competitors than M3 or M6. Take into consideration 997GT3. If I were to spend $130K, I'd rather buy 997GT3 than CLK63 black.
5 years from now... only few people and only enthusiasts still remember that CLK63 black is not the same as CLK63.
So yes, CLK63 IMO is just like Audi and VW... got pinched by japanese at the bottom and couldn't get any buyers when competing in terms of price w/ MB and BMW. And I agree w/ you, I somehow still see CLK to be a "C-class" coupe (no offense to CLK owners - it's just how I feel) instead of "E-class" coupe (300CE) replacement. And I think it's because of the price (regular CLK), which is lower than E but higher than C, while 300CE used to be more expensive than 300E.
5 years from now... only few people and only enthusiasts still remember that CLK63 black is not the same as CLK63.
So yes, CLK63 IMO is just like Audi and VW... got pinched by japanese at the bottom and couldn't get any buyers when competing in terms of price w/ MB and BMW. And I agree w/ you, I somehow still see CLK to be a "C-class" coupe (no offense to CLK owners - it's just how I feel) instead of "E-class" coupe (300CE) replacement. And I think it's because of the price (regular CLK), which is lower than E but higher than C, while 300CE used to be more expensive than 300E.
#36
I drive an e46 m3 vert and as you can see I am now on a Mercedes benz message board now. 1st post. The e46 m3 (mine looks so mean and clean) now the new e92 looks blah. I bet it is a blast to drive etc.
Some say a car needs to grow on you. No. A car's looks should never have to grow on anyone.
Some say a car needs to grow on you. No. A car's looks should never have to grow on anyone.
#37
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2003 E55 K1+ Throttle body
I just came from an E46 convertible with SMG. It was fast and nimble but nowhere near the torque and straight-line excitement of the E55. I didn't like the SMG which was jerky and unpleasant. I also like the E46 styling over the E92. BMW has dropped the ball with their new model design. The 6 series is nice, the 3 series acceptable , and 5 and 7 series are as ugly as a mud fence. For years I was a true blue BMW fan, until I got behind the wheel of an E55. Game over!
#38
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'08 M5, '10 Land Cruiser
I also like the E46 styling over the E92. BMW has dropped the ball with their new model design. The 6 series is nice, the 3 series acceptable , and 5 and 7 series are as ugly as a mud fence. For years I was a true blue BMW fan, until I got behind the wheel of an E55. Game over!
Overall though, the new M3 in white is stunning. It won't dmage M5 sales though as it's short on space and unsuitable if you have kids or business people in the back seats on a regular basis.
As regards new BMW styling, my take is this;
New 3 saloon looks weak but the coupe looks good.
Ungainly 5-series is transformed by the sport pack and the M5 looks great.
6-series I like.
745i was hideous but 750i facelift has made it desirable again.
The new X5 looks too much like the X3. Opportunity missed.
Finally, the pricing of the CLK has always been a mystery to me and MSRP was undeniably a major reason why the E46 M3 was a sales success and the CLK55 a sales failure. It was priced up against the much faster and larger E55k while it Europe it cost more than the M3 CSL.
Last edited by Carl Lassiter; 06-18-2007 at 06:36 PM. Reason: spelling