vrus

I've been trying to figure out what other components of the engine I could create in Carbon Fiber and get some improved performance.

The stock aluminum surge tanks is what I had my sites set on... I originally tried to extrude hone the interior of the surge tanks to get a few more mm shaved off and increase the volume but ExtrudeHone couldnt get it done for me.

Then I started thinking that if I create those surge tanks in Carbon Fiber like the airbox. I could have the heat resistant material impregnated in between the weave to insulate them just like the airbox and also, I can get them redesigned to improve flow and increase volume...

Would love to hear everyone's input on this idea before I start marching down this road and present it to the composites shop.

These are the pieces I am talking about recreating:

MafiosoCLS55

Im all in as always, sounds like a nice project. Also make the engine bay look even nicer.. What will the price range be around for this project? And any performance gains from doing something like this??

SleeperX

I am in...

jparch

victor , what happened to the red ones you had coated?

vrus

Way too early to be able to answer any of these questions.. The first step is I have to butcher up a set of intake manifolds (chop them in half) so that the composites shop can study the design...

This would be a complicated piece to make because it would have a few aluminum pieces molded in with the CF.

As an example, where all the bolt holes are, we would have to put in aluminum standoffs to support the inside so that the CF doesnt collapse if you tighten it down to hard..

Also, at the base where it attaches to the heads, I am thinking an aluminum piece will have to be made so those 2 mating surfaces are the same... These are all just thoughts in my head right now.. I have to let the real engineers look at it and see what can be done.. I dream up the wild ideas, the engineers make it happen.

Once they've had a chance to study it they'll come back to me and give me rough pricing... At that point I can decide based on interest if it is feasible to proceed in building it.

Yacht Master

Vrus,

I am sure that the flow could be improved thru the tank, and would bet the intake runners could be improved too. I could be wrong but it may be easer to fab a simple intake runner in CF and a new surge tank 2 pieces rather than fabing just the tank. The OEM surge would be hard to recreate in CF cause of the large interior of the tank. I hope you understand what I am trying to say, the intake runners would have half of the tank easy to cast, and the top of the tank would have a similar look to OEM, but fasteners around the perimeter of the two pieces, think clam shell. I think you will be after a part with finish quality inside and outside. Great idea to make it thermo active. Is there any more room to go higher and stay under hood?

vrus

I still have those..

They are going on my car with the CF engine cover, CF Tubes, and CF airbox.. I needed something that looked good to tide me over until the CF surge tanks are built.

The candy apple red looks awesome next to the CF.

Next week when the CF tubes & engine cover are installed I am going to put the red manifolds on and take pics.. This will allow everyone to see what the completed engine bay looks like.

If I can keep the molds and engineering costs under $10,000 for the surge tanks I will build them and make them available to anyone that wants a set.

BUT, the idea is to make them bigger and better than stock ones so that they will provide more flow.

vrus

I am not sure when you say "Intake Runner" if you mean the insides of the surge tank. If so, you might not know that there are no runners.. it is all just 1 open cavity in those surge tanks.. On a F/I car its not important to keep airflow velocity up like it is on a N/A car, so there is no need for individual runners like those that the M5 has for example.

The next step after hacking the tanks in half is to get my engineer to do some CAD drawings and do some airflow testing using computer models to see what configuration works best (this is what was done to make the airbox). I believe there is a bit of room to go taller but not much.

I'll have some more to say about this after my first meeting with the engineer.

Thanks for the input though.

Yacht Master

Intake runner is the part that bolts to the intake ports on the head and then the surge tank bolts to that. I think that the greatest potential improvement is to be had in the intake runner and were it meets the surge tank. That sharp 90% transition can't be good. That is why I suggest the intake runner should be in CF and be the bottom half of the surge tank too. This would allow for a smooth transition with much less disturbed flow. I know it is hard to understand what I am trying to say so I repeat from my previous post.

I am sure that the flow could be improved thru the tank, and would bet the intake runners could be improved too. I could be wrong but it may be easer to fab a simple intake runner in CF and a new surge tank 2 pieces rather than fabing just the tank. The OEM surge would be hard to recreate in CF cause of the large interior of the tank. I hope you understand what I am trying to say, the intake runners would have half of the tank easy to cast in CF, and the top of the tank would have a similar shape to OEM, but the fasteners would be around the perimeter of the two pieces, think clam shell. I think you will be after a part with finish quality inside and outside.

BTY are you running the non bypass SL S/C yet?

jparch

victor, a couple of "engineering" questions for you or your engineers

1) do you know exactly what is the purpose of the surge tanks?

2) what power gains are to be expected at what cost? i.e. is this more for show

3) what kind of longevity can you expect from these tanks?

4) will you finish these projects before the summer is over so we can "test" them out at the track

bleek

Bump! This should be interesting!

chiromikey

[off topic] i've been waiting for you to pop back in here and tell us what's going on with your car...so what's up???[/off topic].

bleek

chiromikey, hey sorry man, been feeling really down, just been going through one death after another, and man it takes it toll on you!

Cars really rocking now, got my hands on a real rare set of castings with smaller combustion chamber, so now i got more c/r! Only thing left is witing to ship my car to colorado to get the two ecu's tuned and i'm ready to rock! Also got a spare tranny shipped out to germany for upgrading, that way i got no down time, plus i figure i'll be breaking stuff too! LOL!

stevebez

Victor - would be nice idea to embed aluminum AMG lettering in the CF surge tank ...

Thinking to far ahead I know - but .... you got me thinking...

Keeping a alum connecting surface also sounds like a very good idea - but combining the Surge tanks with the intake runners as yachtmaster suggested will give better performance in my opinion - CF surge tanks on their own will just be for looks I think...

vrus

1) Yes. Why?

2) Don't know.. This is the R&D phase. You can't estimate power gains, if any, when you haven't even prototyped something yet. The procedure is to make a mockup out of fiberglass or aluminum FIRST.

3) The same as other cars which have plastic or Carbon fiber intake parts... There is no issue with Carbon Fiber in terms of logevity.

4) who knows.. I have fun building and taking apart.. I may never be finished... but then again.. I may get bored all of a sudden and stop.

jparch

victor, i did not ask those questions in a negative way.... As far as power output is concerned on the surge tanks, i also spoke to a number of people extremely familiar with these engines ( most of them from Europe) and they claim there is virtually no gains from modifying the tanks. As far as #4 is concerned, you have spent every waking moment trying to make crazy power and beat the competitors, why not have a go at a Kleemann or Renntech car ???

vrus

I know.. It wasn't taken in a negative way.

I'd love to do some 1/4mile racing with it to see what it will do, but, I just never have the car buttoned up long enough to do it.

Right now with all the prototyping that I am doing, I am constantly installing and removing components to test them.. I think once this next round of stuff is done, I am going to stop for a bit and just enjoy the car.

rflow306

Hey Bleek why the innuendos ?. If you have a gripe against somebody just post it and don't beat around the bush. It's a public forum after all.

On a side note- When is this shoot-out you are talking about ?
It's a bit of a stretch for me as far as distance but if the event is big enough, I will definitely make a go of it.

jparch

i would like to see that matchup; bleek VS rflow

bleek

rflow, hey man congrats on the super fast ride! No beef buddy, just enjoy reading about things that experts and engineers are coming up with.

The shoot out will be cool man, you can get a shipping company to ship the car upto buffalo, and drive over the border, the track is about 20 mins from Niagara Falls, it will be super fun! I am trying to get some renntech guys to come up and also most of the Kleemann guys, but i guess depending on how many people show up i will have to figure out how many days to rent the track for.

rflow306

I was thinking of sending it in my buddy's race trailer, in case i need to wrench. . His trailer will accomodate three cars so maybe two more guys will come.
Keep me informed, the more cars the better.

bleek

Yeah man forsure, but i hope neither one of us have to start wrenching! But whatever anyone needs, we'll have tools spare driveline parts and i'll also have a few of the master techs from my dealership come out, just in case any of us need a hand. I'll bring my star along, you bring the beer!

PTE

I'll buy my beer up there. But after 3, I fall down. ___PTE___