Some of you asked if my big heat exchanger made a difference...
#1
Out Of Control!!
Thread Starter
Some of you asked if my big heat exchanger made a difference...
Well, I never datalogged with the stock heat exchanger (so no before comparison data) but went out with Jason (E55JAY) and did some runs and data logged since my car performed very poorly at the track yesterday. Thanks Jason. The temp was anywhere from 78-85 (according to the display in the instrument cluster) depending on exactly where we were. It was cooler by the water and in the shade. I dont remember the exact temps of each run unfortunately. The IAT's look very low to me and never rose under WOT. These runs went up to 140+mph. I dont know anybody else with a Kleemann CLK55 but if someone has one and wants to datalog for comparison that would be great
I would say my bigger heat exchanger worked. Enough talk, lets see some graphs (click on images to enlarge).
3rd and 4th gear pull (if I remember correctly)
![](http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/9/24321250980.jpg)
Tried to cut a run down using MS Paint... wasnt too successful lol This was a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gear pull.
![](http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/9/24321250982.jpg)
Is it normal for the boost to decrease like that or am I maybe gettin some belt slip? And also according to this formula: To convert MAP to boost - (MAP-29.92)/2
I am making negative boost. Wtf?
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
3rd and 4th gear pull (if I remember correctly)
![](http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/9/24321250980.jpg)
Tried to cut a run down using MS Paint... wasnt too successful lol This was a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gear pull.
![](http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/9/24321250982.jpg)
Is it normal for the boost to decrease like that or am I maybe gettin some belt slip? And also according to this formula: To convert MAP to boost - (MAP-29.92)/2
I am making negative boost. Wtf?
![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
Last edited by blackbenzz; 09-01-2007 at 09:47 PM.
#2
MBWorld Fanatic!
good god, i wish we could get e55 iat graphs to look like that! i think the only way to do it would be to disconnect the sensor! ![bow](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/bowdown.gif)
actually my heat exchanger set up has me pretty close but i'm still jealous!
![bow](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/bowdown.gif)
actually my heat exchanger set up has me pretty close but i'm still jealous!
Last edited by chiromikey; 09-02-2007 at 01:45 AM.
#3
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E55
"in hg" to psi to get manifold pressure correct.
Take your "in hg" number and multiply 0.4912
I might be wrong though.
Looks like you chopped off the throttle at the "20" mark,thats where the green line runs straight down.
Take your "in hg" number and multiply 0.4912
I might be wrong though.
Looks like you chopped off the throttle at the "20" mark,thats where the green line runs straight down.
#4
Out Of Control!!
Thread Starter
13.7536-29.92 = -16.1664/2 = -8.0832 So I'm running negative 8PSI?
![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
#5
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#6
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Guess not! And no, I'm supposed to be running 7 PSI.
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#8
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Well, I never datalogged with the stock heat exchanger (so no before comparison data) but went out with Jason (E55JAY) and did some runs and data logged since my car performed very poorly at the track yesterday. Thanks Jason. The temp was anywhere from 78-85 (according to the display in the instrument cluster) depending on exactly where we were. It was cooler by the water and in the shade. I dont remember the exact temps of each run unfortunately. The IAT's look very low to me and never rose under WOT. These runs went up to 140+mph. I dont know anybody else with a Kleemann CLK55 but if someone has one and wants to datalog for comparison that would be great
I would say my bigger heat exchanger worked. Enough talk, lets see some graphs (click on images to enlarge).
3rd and 4th gear pull (if I remember correctly)
![](http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/9/24321250980.jpg)
Tried to cut a run down using MS Paint... wasnt too successful lol This was a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gear pull.
![](http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/9/24321250982.jpg)
Is it normal for the boost to decrease like that or am I maybe gettin some belt slip? And also according to this formula: To convert MAP to boost - (MAP-29.92)/2
I am making negative boost. Wtf?![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
3rd and 4th gear pull (if I remember correctly)
![](http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/9/24321250980.jpg)
Tried to cut a run down using MS Paint... wasnt too successful lol This was a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gear pull.
![](http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/9/24321250982.jpg)
Is it normal for the boost to decrease like that or am I maybe gettin some belt slip? And also according to this formula: To convert MAP to boost - (MAP-29.92)/2
I am making negative boost. Wtf?
![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
#9
MBWorld Fanatic!
Ahmad the iats look to low, likely because you were not making any or very little boost. Either the data-logger is way off or you have some boost issues. Your iats actually went down in certain spots during the run that could only indicate that you had close to ambient air leaving the blower ic, very hard to do with any IC with-out ice. For example even if you had a large ice cooler in the back the temps would start out very low and gradually climb and plateau, they would only come back down when you lifted.
![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
Last edited by JAYCL600; 09-02-2007 at 10:17 AM.
#10
Super Member
Sorry to rain on your parade
BB, logging your iat is not the same as an E55K or any of the AMG Factory Kompressors. The iat sensor is a built in part of your mass air flow sensor assembly. On the Kleemann blower, you still retain the stock MAF part. You are mesuring the temp of the incoming air through the MAF only.
On the Kompressor engines the IAT sensor is a seperate part located in the airsteam from the supercharger behind the heat exchanger. And they have no MAF at all.![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Rich
On the Kompressor engines the IAT sensor is a seperate part located in the airsteam from the supercharger behind the heat exchanger. And they have no MAF at all.
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Rich
#11
MBWorld Fanatic!
BB, logging your iat is not the same as an E55K or any of the AMG Factory Kompressors. The iat sensor is a built in part of your mass air flow sensor assembly. On the Kleemann blower, you still retain the stock MAF part. You are mesuring the temp of the incoming air through the MAF only.
On the Kompressor engines the IAT sensor is a seperate part located in the airsteam from the supercharger behind the heat exchanger. And they have no MAF at all.![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Rich
On the Kompressor engines the IAT sensor is a seperate part located in the airsteam from the supercharger behind the heat exchanger. And they have no MAF at all.
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Rich
#12
MBWorld Fanatic!
BB, logging your iat is not the same as an E55K or any of the AMG Factory Kompressors. The iat sensor is a built in part of your mass air flow sensor assembly. On the Kleemann blower, you still retain the stock MAF part. You are mesuring the temp of the incoming air through the MAF only.
On the Kompressor engines the IAT sensor is a seperate part located in the airsteam from the supercharger behind the heat exchanger. And they have no MAF at all.![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Rich
On the Kompressor engines the IAT sensor is a seperate part located in the airsteam from the supercharger behind the heat exchanger. And they have no MAF at all.
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Rich
This is strange as I pondered the boost figures all evening as I cant wrap my mind around the low boost numbers relative to how the car drives and trap speeds it puts down. His car just ran a 12.45@ 114mph (corrected 12.23@115.86) trap speeds on friday last week but regularly puts down high 11's @ 118+ in good air so hes definitely off a few mph, I would theorize that to make a 114 mph pass in 80 degree ambient he has to be making more then 2lbs of boost. Both of our cars dont seem to be running maximum but I can only pull about 2-3 car lengths on him at 140mph so he has to be making more then 0-2lbs of boost?![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
Last edited by rflow306; 09-02-2007 at 10:52 AM.
#13
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Damn awesome team effort here guys thanks a ton!! normal boost is supposed to be 7lbs, so using OBD port is useless for these specific parameters
#14
MBWorld Fanatic!
#16
Super Member
I would love to see an rpm reference on an overlayed graph. Can't really tell what is happening when and how accurate it is. The boost would actually drop on a more efficient cooler setup though. He woulve needed to test the coolant temp in the cooler or the air temp after the cooler to tell, but I would bet they are better. The dyno or dragstrip would tell.
You really can't compare this as much with a factory kompressor car. It's going to make different power, boost for boost, due to different blower, pullies, cams, exhaust, blower, air inlets/restrictions, intercooler, and the fact that he has higher compression ,which makes more power at any given boost level.
The CLK55 is 4-600 lbs. lighter than the beast, so it's easier to move.
No offence meant here, just saying that you should not try to compare the two too closely, as there are too many different variables.
I bet the cooler didn't help as much as it would on an E55K though.
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#17
Super Member
#18
MBWorld Fanatic!
BB, logging your iat is not the same as an E55K or any of the AMG Factory Kompressors. The iat sensor is a built in part of your mass air flow sensor assembly. On the Kleemann blower, you still retain the stock MAF part. You are mesuring the temp of the incoming air through the MAF only.
On the Kompressor engines the IAT sensor is a seperate part located in the airsteam from the supercharger behind the heat exchanger. And they have no MAF at all.![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Rich
On the Kompressor engines the IAT sensor is a seperate part located in the airsteam from the supercharger behind the heat exchanger. And they have no MAF at all.
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Rich
#19
MBWorld Fanatic!
+1 mbenzman on the info,
how good is the revised new pump from mb on the 2006 55k cars if you do not mind me asking
?
how good is the revised new pump from mb on the 2006 55k cars if you do not mind me asking
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Last edited by Zod; 09-02-2007 at 03:34 PM.
#21
MBWorld Fanatic!
#22
Super Member
Don't forget that the maf could be failing (never seen that before
![rolf](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
O2 sensor values in conjunction with the maf values would be really important on a F/I N/A car as you may be pegging the MAF as the Kleemann's tend to do .
As far as what improvements you can expect on a aftermarket F/I engine by enlarging the heat exchanger, will be two fold. It would be any h.p. improvement due to density of cooler air entering the combustion chambers and the peace of mind due to the fact that colder air is safer for your engine in that engine damaging detonation will be less likely to occur.
On the M113K engines, the factory ecu makes adjustments (for engine safety) that the N/A ecu will not. It pulls timing and will add fuel when it sees the iat rise and will even shut off (disengage) the s/c clutch to prevent damage to the engine. The Kleemann has no such protection and can't diengage the s/c as it's not clutched.
So when you do install a more effective heat exchanger on a M113K, that keeps the IAT lower, then it's ecu won't ruin the power party. The effect will be more noticeable for three reasons, Cooler more dense air, less/no retard on timing and less/no added fuel.
Rich
Last edited by mbenzman; 09-02-2007 at 07:53 PM.
#23
Super Member
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
I can't say it feels any different but it does have a brand new supposedly updated pump we'll see when I have a chance to check the part #. I don't believe the pump is any better flow wise, just maybe/hopefully more durable.
![rolf](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
![rolf](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Rich
#24
MBWorld Fanatic!
i have three bump part numbers from MB, will post them when i get back home tonight
.
I must say i am interested in this bigger radiator... thinking bigger radiator ( if thats what its called) plus improved pump cm90
... can any one say its cooling time
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
I must say i am interested in this bigger radiator... thinking bigger radiator ( if thats what its called) plus improved pump cm90
![naughty](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/naughty.gif)
![devil](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/devil.gif)